Just figured i'd ask here to get other people's opinion on the idea. It's not completely without justification, if you ask me. As some may know, i've been trying to sell my Smart ForTwo for the past few months... not hurriedly in any way... just attempting to. Been looking at VW's... but am open to options. My brother had mentioned the whole thing with the one Ford dealership nearby with the whole "Up to $8,000 over Kelly Blue Book" stuff... and thought to myself "well, VW dealers didn't seem to want to do jack for a trade in, so why not just go see what they say?". Went there today... and it just so happens my brother and his wife were there because she was apparently trading her old car in on a new car, that new car being a 2012 Ford Fusion. Now... here's where the abso-f*cking-lutely ridiculous part comes into play. For that car she traded in... which was a 2004 Toyota Rav-4 with roughly 110,000 miles and in decent shape, they gave her $14,900. After they were all done with everything, and left, i was talking to the salesman they were talking to. Gave him my keys and registration so he could take it for a quick spin and get the other stuff rolling. He comes back a few minutes later, and says "I'm glad you're sitting down. $8,500." I looked at him a little puzzled... at which point he said "the CarFax report for the vehicle showed it was in an accident." Uh huh.... i asked him if it said what damage was done in the accident, and he said it only said there was damage to the rear drivers side, and asked if i wanted him to print out the report, but i said no... which in hindsight, i should have had him do so, and may go back to ask for one since those things are freakin expensive. He said without that accident, they could have probably done $10,000-10,500.... which would only leave me with about $2,000 on the existing loan. Why is that pissing me off so much? Because my car is a 2009 Smart ForTwo with only just under 40,000 miles and in much better overall condition than the 7 year old Rav-4. And what exactly was that "Rear drivers side damage" that CarFax seems to have basically semi-screwed me on in terms of trade-in value? Some of you may remember, but for those that don't know/remember.... think it was about 9 months after i picked up the car, some a**hole drunk driver pulled into the parking lot where i work (which is a liquor store... don't judge... he didn't come into said store otherwise i'd have probably wanted to beat the sh*t out of him), managed to clip the back corner of my car, which broke the rear trim piece, part of the fender and wheel well, and put a small crack in the rear bumper mid-piece. As far as i remember... all the damage was basically to plastic parts... which broke because it was insanely cold when my car was hit. No frame damage.... no mechanical damage.... hell, my muffler/tailpipe wasn't even damaged. No major damages AT ALL. Then that a** drove off, and abandoned his car off some road somewhere, walked home, and tried to deny anything happened to the cops who showed up at his house due to them having his plate number thanks to the awesome beer distributor employee who was outside at the time and witnessed the whole thing. The guy even tried to say he loaned the car to a friend (which is why he said the car wasn't at the house). So... anybody have any opinion on what i should try to do in this situation? Doing what my dad said... taking the loss and trading it in anyway, isn't much of an option, since i'd have payments through the roof for an $18,000+ car on top of the $4,000 that i'd still owe for the Smart. Really want to get that CarFax report. If it seriously only says where the damage was, and doesn't say what was damaged or anything like that, then i can honestly see there being something in this. Generalizations don't work with patent law... why should it be any different here? And i'm not generally the type out for money or anything like that.... but this is just pissing me off. I'm out money because some dipsh*t decided to get absolutely hammered and then drive to get more. I even still have the police report... which is absolutely hysterical to read, too. At least somewhat in hindsight.... moreso before today than now.
You had it repaired, I presume? And you have a copy of the detailed invoice from the repair shop specifying exactly what was damaged and replaced? While the police report is good, as far as whether the vehicle was moving, etc., I believe the repair invoice will tell more about how the damage should affect the vehicle value. Admittedly, I have no clue what is in a CarFax report, so I wonder if any or all of the information regarding the exact nature of the damage is included, or it simply says 'vehicle was in an accident'? EDIT: Interesting reading.
I doubt you would get anywhere with legal action over that. perhaps its just better to sell the car privately?
to be honest, there is no legal action you can do aginst carfax. that police report is what did you in, which will stay with that vehicles VIN for 3 years. carfax was just doing their job. read this. http://www.carfax.com/about/data_sources.cfx
Wow, sounds like the business is a complete scam. How are they allowed to run? Some of these comments about false accident claims and terrible customer support (they treat everyone like they're some sort of criminal and that their records are perfect). Disgusting.
Quote:Now... here's where the abso-f*cking-lutely ridiculous part comes into play. For that car she traded in... which was a 2004 Toyota Rav-4 with roughly 110,000 miles and in decent shape, they gave her $14,900. After they were all done with everything, and left, i was talking to the salesman they were talking to. Gave him my keys and registration so he could take it for a quick spin and get the other stuff rolling. He comes back a few minutes later, and says "I'm glad you're sitting down. $8,500 Ya right. Don't beleive it. The trade in value of that rav 4 is about $8000.00 IF it is in excellent condition. Private sale is max $10,500.00 http://www.kbb.com/toyota/rav4/2004...&pricetype=private-party&isnotabs=true#survey http://www.kbb.com/smart/fortwo/200...|0|0|0|0|1|0&pricetype=trade-in&isnotabs=true They probably paid full price on the new car and the sales man made it LOOK like they got a great trade..they did not... Problem with your car is they have to resell it at some point. The market for smart cars is tiny, they have to park it in front of all the other cars or no one will see it. They don't want it sitting on the lot losing value. However thats only one offer try another dealer see what they offer.
bigpipe: i've tried that ford dealer... and i've tried three separate Volkswagen dealers. everyone says about the same... between $7,500 and $8,500. As far as my brothers wife and her Rav 4.... All i know is what they told me, and i don't think either of them are that dumb to not notice a bit of a cover-up on the pricing. Her monthly payments for her new car are significantly less than what she was paying for the Rav 4, apparently. FireStorm: There's one thing though that could quite easily lean in my favor if i were to attempt this, which is why i'm hoping they send me the entire report, and if not i'm actually going to go back and see if they can print it out for me. This is why i mentioned the whole generalization of patents being pretty much identical. If all the CarFax says happened was that there was damage to the rear drivers side... how would someone who's looking at said CarFax report know whether it was scuffed paint with a dent that needed to be popped out, or if a large chunk of the back corner of the car was taken off because of trying to drive across a busy road and having a heavy impact with another vehicle? Kinda reminds me of the whole "Rectangular device with rounded corners" Apple deal. G-Man: Been trying to, but haven't really had anything but curious onlookers so far. I don't trust leaving it sit in a parking lot for days/weeks/months, not to mention it's my only car right now. Arctucas: Yea, quite the interesting read there... and even more interesting is that they're there's a lot within the last month. As for my car, yes i had it repaired, although it took a month or a few due to the guy who hit me having never contacted his insurance company. Finally had to go to a hearing because the idiot tried to appeal the charges, but unfortunately for him, the witness to what happened also showed up, so i believe both he and his attorney knew he was screwed. At that point the police officer and myself made the judge aware that it had been a significant amount of time since the accident and he had yet to call his insurance company about it. She informed him that he must contact his insurance company. Left the courtroom, got into my car, and called HIS insurance company again, and let them know that they should be hearing from him soon, at which point the guy on the phone told me that they were no longer going to wait for his report of the situation, and will pay for any repairs needed having them covered by his insurance. I then took it to an absolutely FANTASTIC auto body shop that was recommended to me by the dealership both because they typically work on Mercedes cars, and because they do a fantastic job.. sometimes even dealing with expensive exotic cars (Cavallo Auto Body to be exact, in Drexel Hill, PA). Not like i took it to some mom and pop shop around the corner to save a buck. Sure as hell wasn't doing that for a car that wasn't even a year old when it was hit. They ordered the panels that needed to be replaced, which they then had to paint the body color of the car, and did an awesome job. Think i still have the details of the repair somewhere... if not, i'm pretty sure i could get them from them somehow.
Hey I'm trying to make the point that dealers like to make you think you are getting more than you pay for, because that what we all want, me included. They can't really give you $8000.00 more that your cars worth on trade and give you a good price on the new car or they would be out of business in short order. The salesman doesn't want your car in trade as much as they want the rav 4 because it will be hard to resale. Also your car depreciated ALOT faster than the RAV 4. People don't want to buy a car thats been in an acident if they can't tell how severe it was. Your best bet in your case would be a private sale so you can show a one owner car with maintance records and a good description of the minor fender bender. You will come out alot better that way, beleive it! List your car with auto trader and price it a bit less that the competition. As for the carfax it shows an acident but does it show frame damage? You will find both listed and depending on who fixed it even more detail may be reported. Get the carfax.
The first thing is never trade it in upside-down. If you can get what you owe on a trade in fine, but not getting what you owe is a terrible idea. You're best bet is to try and do a private sale. Try and get a print-out of of the carfax if you can and be upfront with any potential buyers if you want.
you, my friend, got ****ty tastes in car buy yourself a real man car, ricer or muscle car for the win. gaz may be expensive but never getting out of the fast lane is priceless.
Doesn't the Brabus Smart have alloys, exhaust and a bodykit? And didn't you even paint a dragon on the side Anyway, I don't see how a car that's been in accident can be devalued that much if the damage has been professionally repaired to a state where it's as good as an identical car that hasn't been in an accident. Then again I don't see how you can bring any legal action whatsoever, I don't see any way they have actually screwed you over. Just sell it somewhere else if you think you can get more for it.
If carfax is reporting truthful information, what recourse do you think you have? In any event, if you were asked the question directly by a buyer, you wouldn't get to lie. You should be pissed at the bodyshop that ratted you to carfax. They get paid to do that. Or you should have gone after the drunk driver for loss of value. ****, if the statute of limitations hasn't run and you made an agreement re-damages already, you probably still could.
nm+... you're missing the point here. Yes... they're reporting truthful information... the car was involved in an accident. But to someone looking at that CarFax report.... that's all it says. How would they know whether it was something minor, like it was... or something major, like a Hummer whacking it at 35mph in the rear left corner? THAT is not truthful information. More like truthful VAGUE information. Again, the reason i brought up the whole Apple "Rectangular device with rounded corners" deal. They're protecting a potential buyer by saying it was involved in an accident, but have no regard for the seller by being as completely vague in a description as possible. Long story short... Yes, i wouldn't get to lie, but at least i'd be able to "Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". And it wasn't the body shop that reported it... it was either the police, or more than likely Allstate. The body shop that repaired it isn't even mentioned on the CarFax report that i was faxed by the car dealership. Lists every other tiny little detail though. every time i took it to the dealer for service.... scheduled or otherwise... and each dealerships location, every time i got it inspected and where. Morbias: yep... it's that vague as hell CarFax which is the reason why it's value dropped. It doesn't show any details whatsoever, and isn't even listing the damage as being repaired. I'm tempted to just bite the bullet and pay to look up the report on my own, just to make sure there's nothing hiding in the depths of their site, but as i'd said before, if vague descriptions don't work in patent laws.... why should they be acceptable in a car history report? Pretty much the only way i can get more for it is by selling it outright, but haven't had any luck with that so far.
It was more than likely Allstate as it's their policy to do so. I deal with the insurance companies all the time and to be honest with you, there's few honest insurance companies. In most cases, they're out to screw everyone... But, there's really no legal action that can be taken against CARFAX as they simply report the information they're provided with, within the guidelines they're required to follow. I bought my 2005 Ford Focus in 2008. I requested the CARFAX report prior to buying the car. The CARFAX report came back clean... (yes, I have it in the glovebox). Not thinking anything of it, I went ahead and bought the car. NADA gave it an estimated value of $10,500 at the time of purchase, but due to various circumstances that worked in my favor the deal was done for $7,500 - $3,500 trade-in on my 2002 Nissan Sentra GLE. So, walked out the door paying $4k + taxes and title. I decided one day when work was slow to do a very close inspection of the car and found that it had been hit in the rear resulting in the rear hatch and bumper being replaced. This information is not listed on CARFAX at all. In fact, CARFAX states that the car has not been involved in an accident. Honestly, based on MY experience with CARFAX, I'd be filing against them if I could for providing false information that cost me $4k + taxes and title.... Sadly, due to how the information is acquired, there's no legal action that can be taken against CARFAX as they only report the information they're provided with.
Which is all the more reason they shouldn't exist. If they're receiving false information, then all they're reporting is false information. If they receive mediocre information...... you get the picture. It's not a vehicle history report, it's a vehicle history estimation report. I should take the dealership the pictures.... the police report.... and try to get a copy of the invoice from the body shop that did the repairs... and see what they say. All i know is if i do somehow get close to what i owe on it, i'm sure as hell not keeping the $400 speakers and $200 amp in the car. I'll go out and buy a set of Polk speakers or something to put in their place, and keep the ones i have for the new car that i might get.
Okay I did another kelly blue book on your Smart car. I set it to perfect condition. The result is 8500.00 on a trade-in. No mention of acidents or a dragon painted on it?? Just listed as totally perfect. You are blaming carfax report when it has very little to do with the trade in value of your car.... . I'm not trying to piss you off just talks facts to you straight up. Something the salesman won't do because he wants to sell you a car not make you mad. You beleive what the salesman has told you if thats what you want to do but I think you need a reality check http://www.kbb.com/smart/fortwo/200...0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0&isnotabs=true Look at the five year depreciation on a brand new smart car. You'll see it loses 50% value the first year! If you really painted a dragon on it your going to lose even more unless you can find a girl buyer thats into the dragon theme.
.... for one, i had a guy come up to me in the the local shopping center parking lot and ask me about the dragon, cause he likes them too, and had seen it there before, but couldn't wait around to ask me about it. And it's not like i went "Hmm... i'm going to slap some paint on here in the shape of a dragon". It's a small dragon in front of the pin striping, done in a way to make it look like the stripes themselves are fire that the dragon is breathing. It's not like the entire side is a dragon. You really think that something like that will make a GUY say "Eew, f*ck no."? And i'm not even the one who painted it. Was hand painted buy a guy who the dealership contacted that was local and basically does it as a profession. As for that KBB estimate... you're missing some stuff. Not to mention the fact that KBB still has no listing for a Brabus Coupe as a selection.... you missed leather seats, premium sound, Navigation, DVD system, single-disc MP3. Those alone bump it up to over $10,000. http://www.kbb.com/smart/fortwo/200...0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0&isnotabs=true And how do you figure that the salesman "didn't want to make me mad" and just wanted to sell me a car? HE told me flat out that because of the accident they could only do $8,500... if it weren't for that they could have probably done around $10,000. Making someone feel like sh*t about something they had no control over isn't the greatest way to try to sell a car in the long run. and.... loses 50% of the value in the first year? According to what, where? Going by the private party value a 2010 Passion Coupe with standard equipment and 26,500 miles would go for about $11,500... whereas new they're around $14,000. Which is also funny about KBB's Options selector. The options for the 2010 showed options on the car that don't show up anywhere for my '09, but are actually on the car, such as the keyless entry and hill-start assist.
No matter the damage, your car is worth less than if it hadn't been hit. No matter what carfax says. You're shopping for cars and find two. One has been in a minor accident. One has never been in an accident. You'll need some cash on the hood to buy the first one of the second. You know it is true. Your car lost value because it got hit, not because carfax reports it. You go after the person who caused the damage, not carfax. Also, don't take the car salesman's word on why he's lowballing you. he'd give you another reason if it was perfect. He's a car salesman. You ask why would he try to piss you off? He knows his offer will piss you off. However, he's going to blame someone else for it. His plan worked. You're balming everyone but him. He might even give you more for your trade later. Say he went to bat for you. Then you'll start talking about the new car price. It will be $1500 more than you would have gotten elsewhere. Car dealers know how to play the game. In any event if you want to make the most money, you need to sell it yourself.
I looked up the CarFax report on a vehicle I was going to purchase from a dealership and the title was clean..didn't mention anything out of the ordinary. I called the dealership and e-mailed them a couple times asking what condition it was in and they said it ran great and was immaculate. Than once I get there the car was a complete piece of sh-t, looked like someone drove into a river..and it didn't even start..and it was missing a window. After that they were like, well we have cars similar to this model....yeah, they were 5 years older and $4,000 over kelly bluebook price.....
