There's no reason for a country to become barbaric, just because of the barbaric actions of one despicable coward. Period. //Svein
According to live news right now, there is a correction of number of dead from Utøya. Luckily the number is 68 (including the one dead from injuries at a later point). Still bad, but not as horrible as first counted. The counting error is explained by the very demanding task for police and paramedics during the first hours after arriving at the site. After the explosion in Oslo, the current number of dead is 8. This number is expected to rise. This brings the total to 74, which is still a tragedy, but less than the initial numbers. The Norwegian Criminal Police Central ("KriPos") are currently the ones having the responsibility of identifying the victims at Utøya, while Oslo Police Precinct are handling the Oslo explosion. The work is problematic, both due to the topography of the island, the vegetation, and the need for dignity in how the dead are treated. All available resources for identity work are being deployed, there is no way this can be done any faster. Work is progressing "according to the plan". There are 50 officers going over the island with a fine-toothed comb, both searching for those still missing, and for forensic evidence. The ID group is using 40 people, and expect the post-mortems to be done by Thursday, and deadlines for the identification to be set after that. The police are thanking the assistance from the fire/rescue departments and the Norwegian Civil Defense ("Sivilforsvaret"). The Police are working on getting our city returned to a state comparable to what is was before the incident. There is a limited area of the city that is cordoned off, both for risk of falling debris, and for searching for further suspicious items. Quite a bit of the security will be "invisible" for the normal population. The map on the cordons will be distributed with the police press release. "There will not be an absolute clampdown with armed police, because this is not the society we want." The police are praising the public for their respect and helpfulness, especially those who helped with the injured on site, and has helped those left behind in dealing with their loss. "Those are our heroes" (according to the policeman). The police cannot expressly rule out that the perpetrator had accomplices, but cannot give more details. Investigations are running, and the police will not give more details (for fear of ruining the investigations). The perpetrator claims two more cells, but this is neither confirmed nor ruled out. This is an open investigation, and as such the investigation is performed by the regular police force, not the security services. The number of missing people at Utøya will remain larger than the number of deceased for a while, until the investigation is concluded. This is a puzzle that requires precision, and as such the police will not release the "working number" of missing. The police is using the recordings of emergency calls, and forensics from the telco providers to find the exact time of when they first received calls for help from Utøya. The police "does not know, cannot comment" on the investigations in Poland. The police are sorry for the wrong numbers being given out, but the scene was a chaotic one and the people on site were more concerned about performing life-rescuing activities, and correcting the "about ten"-perception of the scene, than worrying about some deceased being counted twice. There will, when the works is completed, be a thorough review of how the police (and fire rescue, I surmise) handled this, including response times. The court appearance happened in a calm manner, he was intent on trying to read his manifesto which was stopped by the judge. There has been appointed by court two psychiatric specialists who will evaluate if he is sane (in a legal sense, fit for trial, can be tried, etc) The perpetrator is "ready to remain in prison for the rest of his life" The perpetrator is calm during interrogations, almost unaffected. He queried the judge about the reasoning for for closing out the court, and the response from the judge was to read the decision out loud for him. (A lot of the questions from the press was answered basically "no comment, we cannot compromise our investigations") The cooperation between police and defense forces has been exemplary, but on the scenes of the explosion, the emergency services (fire/rescue, paramedics) are in command, defense and police must come later. //Svein I'm sorry if I'm reporting the press conference a little slowly but this is a new thing for me... I'm also sorry if I miss anything of importance from the police press conference. edit: I will be updating this post, as the press conferance continues
Number of victims on Utøya is now 68. Ray of sunshine just in time for the gatherings at 1800 all over the country.
Anders Behring Breivik is being held in total isolation for four weeks, and letters and visits in eight weeks. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...ww.fvn.no/nyheter/innenriks/article886574.ece
There, I'm writing a post to say that I've now updated my above post as much as my slow fingers would let me during that live press conference. I'm now off for some quick smoke. //Svein
I'll take a break from news now (my head needs some reset!), so if others want to continue the Guru3D newsroom work, I'd be happy. //Svein
"In Norway, the maximum sentence on such a charge is 21 years. However, if the court deems that a person could be a future threat, then they can be sentenced to "preventative detention," Holtaas said. Under that type of sentence, a person would serve the maximum sentence of 21 years and then the court could assess an extension if the person was still deemed a threat, he said." That's a joke right? I didn't believe it when my friend told me Norway's justice system a joke until I saw this piece on CNN.
Actually, 21 years is the most as "punitive prison sentence". However a judge can extend that for 5 years as a time, if the person is still considered a threat to society, and there isn't an upper limit on how many times this can happen. There are a lot of reasons for this, and I'm too tired now to go into the details, but however strange that may sound, or system actually works. (Even I am in disbelief over that, by all international standards our system should not work at all, our streets should be running red. But it does actually somewhat work) //Svein
Let me say one thing real quick. The US does not have a justice system, we have a legal system. Congress makes the law, the legal system enforces it. Legal systems are usually very complicated, I would imagine that Norway has a lot of stuff that can't be summarized in a two sentence sound byte. Also in cases of criminal insanity I'm pretty sure the US has something similar where a sentence can be extended. eta: gods my google searches are probably throwing up red flags all over the place LOL.
Just back from the torch/ flower gathering in my city. In a city of around 100,000 citizens, MORE than 100,000 people gathered to show their support. The same happened all over the country. In Oslo they saw a gathering greater than they've seen since WWII. My city today: There's love in our streets. Love in our hearts. Sounds like a flower power gathering, and indeed it was.
seems like the guy got the complete opposite of what he wanted. he wanted to create chaos and hate, instead people united and supported eachother. :]
Ahh, I see that international know-it-alls are already trying to turn this into cheap political ammo (see this moronic example full of misinformation, as an example) Can we please try to keep our discussion in here on a little less misinformative level? //Svein
I have not posted in this thread before, partly because its been difficult for me to comprehend the enormity of this terrible event. What I have read from your posts on this subject give me hope that its possible to to hold on even tighter to the principle's we value highly. I wish there were more people like you in the world that value your democracy and other people's liberty, and that one, or even a dozen crazed individuals wont change that. My opinion for what its worth, is I accept the possibility of such things happening (of course we try to prevent them, but without using undemocratic methods) because I want to live in a free society, where mine and others freedom is so important. If we become a police state not only do we give into terror, we lose what we are endeavour to hold as our value. That to me, is a more frightning thing to lose.
