AMD Overclocking Guide

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Psychlone, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. cupper24

    cupper24 Guest

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    First of all, congratz on the CCF, it rocks! My temps took a dramatic turn for the better also. It's really a great piece of equipment.

    Secondly, get that crazy third stick of RAM outta there! :)

    Even if they were identical sticks, there's still a factor of "the best OCs take ONE dual channel lane", if you catch my drift.... Populating all 4 lanes is going to yield a lower OC, because the memory controller is saturated with bandwidth (basically working overtime!).

    But, dropping a third in may possibly do more damage (to your OC, not your machine literally ;) ) than populating all 4 lanes, because again the best OCs tend to favor true dual channel setups, as well as dual stick kits. What I mean there is buying 2 sticks of identical RAM to run in DC Mode (A1/B1 or A2/B2). With RAM, you've got to keep it simple or the RAM side of things gets pissed off and slams the car door on your hands, and we all know how painful and demoralizing that is :D !!!

    I don't have any experience with AsRock, but it's just a general rule to achieving the best OC possible. That's based on the assumption you're not just OCing your rig just for sh*ts and grins :D (there's a grin 4 ya)... That's not to say you can't OC your machine (RAM included) with 3 sticks, but you'll always be wondering "if I can get this with 3, imagine what I could get with a solid dual channel kit only populating 2 slots in DC mode" ;) Granted you'l have more RAM physically available, but you take 4 gigs (2x2gb of course :) ) of ddr2-1066, pushing 1200MHz on a good day, and that pretty much trumps *EVERYTHING* else. Not much will overpower 4gb of RAM unless you do lots of simultaneous photo/video editing, burning, ripping, etc. or run instances of CAD!!! Then you may need to seek upwards of 8gb, and settle for less of an OC.

    But, if you are a gamer and web surfer with occasional needs for photo/video editing, etc. tried-and-true like most of us here :), then do yourself a favor and take the "highest MHz" route. You won't regret it! :cool:

    @the general public at large: Core Temp seems to be wacky in my setup. ASUS Probe says I run generally around 29-30C idle, and no more than 45C under load, which seems very reasonable. However, Core Temp seems to want to bust my balls and report a fluctuating idle of like 7-9C (literally it says I'm running at 7-9C on bothe cores!!!). I think if I stuck my tongue to the IHS, it would stick! Also, using A2/B2 on this board seems to cut a slice out of the overall RAM MHz. Since I'm running the x2 for now, cpu-z and EVEREST both report that the RAM is running @ 388.9MHZ instead of 400.

    Not, that I won't be able to overcome that when I send my rig to overclocking camp, but I was curious as to the drawbacks of running that config. I'm not running it voluntarily, it's all due to my HSF's big ass hanging over my first RAM slot, (I blame mostly ASUS here for not leaving the RAM enough room to stretch its legs before getting its dirty feet all over the CPU socket).

    So far, I don't seem to be seeing a big change in x2 systems when a) running Xpress and CPU Tweak and b)running Isochronous Flow, unitID clumping, and VC1. Are there any benching programs that will show the difference outright? I've ran the benchies in EVEREST, Sandra, and have done some game tests with FRAPS, and no major differences can be discerned. Thoughts?

    For now, I'll be playing with my new toy: Vista 64-bit!

    cupper24
     
  2. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    hey :D .. I cannot Pass IBT lol even on 2.6ghz everything default lol no overclocking =\
    i was checking =\ i can pass more then 20hr prime95 >_< and IBT stops giving me error @ 10% somethnig .. thats like 1st sec of IBT , any clue ?
     
  3. studabakahawk

    studabakahawk Guest

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    thanks gurus, i dropped the bad chip and ordered a 2 gig single chip and will pair that with one of my good chips of dual channel HyperX, 2 populate only 2 ram slots and still have 3 gig 533- 1066 ram ( by the way i went to kingston hyperX site and that stick of ram was single channel!not dual channel as advertised!)
    so im thinking the only thing holding back the O\C for the 9950 BE is heat, i need to ask what O\C will generate the most heat, raising my multi to say 15 and my FSB to like 207-215, or lowereing my multi to 13 and raising FSB to 246 as i have it now?
    like i said with the CCf cooler im running at 45c max would hi FSB or hi Multi raise more heat?
     
  4. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    @ studabakahawk: Multi raises more heat, but it's really all about the voltage it's taking that actually causes it, so go as high as you can while keeping the volts as low as possible. With your new cooler producing a max (so far) of 45*C, you should be able to crank that thing up to it's maximum pretty easily - just watch those temps!!! You get into the high 50's, be leary...you hit 60*C and you best be shutting it down and reducing your overclock to an acceptable temperature level!;)

    Something else that I was going to mention (and somehow failed to even think of it when it was more relevant) is that when you buy RAM sticks, they usually always come as a paired set of 2 sticks...so there's no way possible to purchase an exact duplicate of a matched set when purchasing one by itself...see, there are variations in what ICs the manufacturer uses - they'll usually have 1 set that has D9 ICs (the best you can buy and usually will overclock significantly higher than non D9 counterparts, and are highly sought-after and hard to find) and then they'll go through a series of different IC manufacturers, effectively using the lowest bidder at the time that's closest to the specifications set forth by the RAM manufacturer. Version 1.1 (with *any* RAM manufacturer) is going to be completely different RAM than version 1.3, let alone version 2.1, 3.3, 4.5, etc. (and everything in between)
    So, best thing to do when purchasing RAM, is to buy all the RAM that's needed that are identical in their version numbers...this way, you've got the same ICs on all the sticks, and therefore, the same RAM all around. Really, the only way to do that is to hand-pick your RAM from a store. I found my D9's (all 10GB total) on a shelf at a Fry's in Vegas...all were version 1.1, so all were identical sticks with the highest potential of overclockability because of the D9 ICs on them. Hand-picking is the only way that I'll buy RAM, and usually the only way that I'll buy a CPU as well...that way, you know what you're getting (as far as stepping or revision) and not leaving anything to chance.
    You know how I've said for quite a long time that everything comes down to the CPU's stepping? Well, when you order online, you've got no control over what stepping you're sent (Newegg usually always sends out the best steppings, but they don't always receive the best steppings), so physically picking out the specific stepping you want is the best way to go!! ;)

    @ main shoby: Huh? I've yet to even see an IBT error, so I don't know what they look like, but if it's happening that fast, and even at the reduced speed, *AND* your temps never hit the 60*C range, then I'm going to have to say that something else is up...like a corrupt download of IBT, an ailing 'wooden Windows' installation, or something seriously problematic - like actual hardware malfunction.

    By all means, you should be able to pass IBT at your stock speeds! Do you, by chance, have a spare HDD that you can install Windows on? If so, I would suggest installing Windows (whatever flavor) from a fresh format and then try running IBT...unless you've got some sort of hardware failure, that will fix it right then and there.

    @ cupper24: Seems there was a way to *force* the M3A79-T to change the channels...I'll look into it for you.
    CoreTemp does that to some people for some reason - and it happens so randomly, that I don't have any input for you about it...seems to happen to both AMD and Intel systems with completely different chipsets, etc., so there's no rhyme or reason - literally nothing that I can put my finger on as to why it's got this behavior...I already know you've got a brand new OS;), so I know it's not that for sure.
    Perhaps you should delete it, download the newest version again, but before pulling the .exe, run ASC's:cool: registry cleaner and wipe all traces of it first, reboot and then run the .exe...if that doesn't work, I don't know what will - I've not had a problem with CoreTemp ever, so I'm not good at debugging it.

    With the Isochronous Flow and all that other stuff, I would think that if anything is going to show at all on an X2 system, that Everest's Cache and Memory Benchmark would show it quickly...unless it turns on and off so quickly that even that bench wouldn't show it. I've found completely instability with those settings on enabled with the newer M3A79-T and my Phenoms, which is a bit different than when I was running the M3A32-MVP Deluxe.
     

  5. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    well .. i installed Fresh vista like 2 weeks back when I received my new samsung 750gb 32Mb cache .. i installed on a 50gb partition on clean and new hhd .
    well i dont crash my pc >_< it just stops in 1st sec saying something i forgot lol.
    i can pass 20hr prime95 test -_- .. and cannot pass 1 sec of IBT ? lol ?

    Edit .

    changed ram slots, removed gfx card, still got same error lol .. i get this thing ...
    [​IMG]
    i can pas all other tests -_- .. whats happening here ? lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  6. studabakahawk

    studabakahawk Guest

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    thanks psyclone, i am running 3.2 at 1.2875V i had 3.15 at 1.275 I wasnt sure if multi did raise temps worse than FSB, thanks for the info. if i have stability issues i may go to 1.3V but i see very little temp change between 1.275,and 1.285 V.
    well im gonna try thatHyperX 2 gig 533-1066 chip with my matched pair ofHyperX 1 gig 533-1066 as i want a little more head room as far as mem goes. if it flames out ill be back looking for your sage advice as to O\C'ing guide for my 2 1 gig sticks as i said earlier im really in the dark about memory o\C'ing and tightening timings...
    as far as O\C'ing cpu's I have been dabbeling since i had 75 htz pentium ,but really only got any great results since i started comming here. i owe it all to you and this great site thanks for everything gurus!
     
  7. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    i found all the stable individual clocks .. but wanna ask should all individual clocks be stable ? lol
    thats gonna tak like a month like that .. i have to run 24 hr stability test on each highest setting ? :D
    as far as i know .. i can manage my pc @ 49C load max @ 2940mhz , 210 FSB, 14x multi..
    not touching HT settings , only Vcore set to 1.3125 one knot up .. i dont know .. why i need so much power if i have to go over 2940 .. everything is unstable .
    may be thats my motherboards overclocked stability limit ?
    if i got 210-> 215 fsb i have to raise my ram volt 1.90 -> 2.10 , Vcore goes 1.3125 -> 1.375 , and obviously .. this motherboard is missing some HS behind processor socket, mobo temp reachs 45 and processor goes 55 lol
    thats when i go 2940 -> 2990 some.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  8. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Thanks studabakahawk! Hope it all works out well for you!

    @ main shoby: Strange thing with IBT - I've not been a big fan of it since it came out, and haven't used it enough to know what's going on, but I would speculate that it doesn't like something in your system if it won't let you pass while using stock and default parameters in your BIOS...

    Now, onto the second thing:
    When you say 'individual clocks', do you mean the highest possible values for CPU, RAM, Northbridge, HT? or what??
    As per your question on 24 hour stability testing on each, no. (back to the guide...check my ORANGE text for your answer)
    But, to answer quickly, none of the highest values are going to be stable, it's the highest possible value for each thing, and you can't combine all your highest values into a successful overclock either - you do this so that when you do the math, you can see what's going to cap out on you before you even make any changes...it the proper way to go about overclocking.

    oh, and AAAARRRRRG! If your motherboard doesn't have any heatsink on the power regulators (toward the rear of the motherboard, on the left-side of the CPU socket) and your board heats up to 45*C and gets hotter, then you should stop altogether - that board is *not* going to last you long at all if you choose to overclock!!! If, on the other hand, the board doesn't go above 45*C, then even without the power reg cooling, you *may* still be ok, but please do understand the inherent risks involved in overclocking...you could loose a component or the entire system in one fell swoop. Easily.

    Now that being said, it makes sense that you'd have to increase your RAM voltage (all RAM likes a little more voltage, just don't go over 2.1 and you should be safe).

    Remember that not all components are created equal? Well, some CPUs aren't going to hit 3.51GHz no matter how much voltage you throw at them, while others are going to do it at 0.75V above stock voltage. So, don't get it in your head that you've *got* to have a 3+ GHz chip...either you do or you don't, no in between, and you can't force or will it to happen, it's all in your CPU's stepping...you can, however, coax as much out of it as possible, and as long as it falls within the guidelines for temps on your CPU (no higher than 60*C to be safe), you can just keep increasing multipliers, FSB and voltages to your hearts content - as long as you're paying attention to the temps, anything goes!

    Psychlone
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  9. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    Hmm ..i got almost all of my answers here ,ill post a pic of my motherboard lol so you can see whats happening.

    [​IMG]

    this is where it hurts.
    my temps are still under 40 when i do 2940mhz in stress .. i know all the limits of my Pc , i know max value of FSB , multiplier, but highest value are not stable lol as u said too .. ill read guide again in more detailed mind, so i can understand that math thing -_- .. coz i donno how NB is effecting Oc, im not playing with NB and HT at all :s, that will effect on my clocks right ?

    will i have to buy some heatsink ? or i can use custom made copper or almonium, i think i can take out from my other powersupply ,, cut that and put paste then apply ?
    dangerous ??

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138128

    this is my board .. you can check pics where heatsink is not present.

    EDIT: Cooling problem ?

    WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT ...... i just checked one thing LOL ...
    in my processor cooling .. my fan is blowing out air .. thats hot air towards front side of the case , where i have 2 fans 120mm for air intake ....
    while in the rear of the casing i have one air exhaust fan cough ..
    which means my cpu processor is blowing air away from the rear exhaust and into the front intake .. and only way out is top , where i got 200mm fan exhaust . does this mean i miss placed the fan and hot air is being traped in the casing ?
    all though this got nothing to do with my overclocking stability but its a cooling problem .. what i am thinking is right ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  10. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    You'll find that rearranging your fans in *ANY* scenario is going to give you better results than what your case manufacturer thinks. They don't care Bro...they just pay some dude to stand there and slap fans in the cases...there's no way that every case can possibly cover every scenario. Some cases work best with every fan literally turned in the opposite direction from stock, some where it's a combination of changes, and still others where the fan placement is wrong altogether.

    You obviously want to have cool air coming in your case from somewhere, and hot air to exit from somewhere - the 'where' for each of those being completely up to the system that's running in it, and where all of them are different, there's no way that one single configuration is going to work for everyone (see what I mean??)

    I'd start by at least pointing your CPU's fan toward an exhaust - be it at the top or the rear...if that's not good enough, start messing around with turning your fans in the opposite direction - *nothing* was ever written in stone that said that the way the case manufacturer sends the fans installed is going to be the best and only way to have them!

    Good luck!

    Psychlone
     

  11. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    yeah lol ... i think ill have to plan fan arrangements in my pc .. becoz i think i have good case for cooling with good cpu cooler . i think i can get more production outa that. doing that
    at the moment i just swaped my cpu fan from front to rear, and i gained 4C in both, motherboard and processor temps .. touching 55C in load .. which is not good :d
    restarting again now and will mess with fan again :p brb

    Edit:
    back :D and Success !!!, fliped rear fan, it was exhausting .. i made it intake.
    droped 3C-4C in load !!! :D oh boy im gonna check everything now :p
    better cooling = more satisfied oc
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
  12. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    See?? Really, it makes more sense to have the rear as intake a lot of the time, but not in every case.
    Having cool air coming in the back of the case and right into the HS/f surely makes more sense than having that fan exhaust hot air - as long as you've got an exhaust worked out in your case!! Ideally, you should have a little positive pressure inside the case, meaning 1 more fan pulling air IN than you've got pushing air OUT - or it could mean having a high CFM fan pulling air IN and a lower CFM fan pushing air OUT...when you get into a combination using several fans, it gets harder and harder, but it's still doable - I've figured mine out with 7 fans...no easy task, but still had to be done.

    Good job...you've found 3-4*C so far. I'd be willing to bet that with proper fan arrangement, you'll get another 5-7*C.

    Psychlone
     
  13. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    well .. i swaped the fan from processor heatsink front to rear. that fan is putting hot air right towards the rear intake fan .. air is colliding right there and when i put my hand in between both fans .. i got my non heatsinked chips right under there.. i feel really strong air blowing in that column from both sides.
    i guess both of the air is colliding there, outward hot air and cool intake from high rpm fan 120mm, which is allowing some strong airflow over my motherboard, while rest of the air pulled out by my 200mm fan thats at the top of my Antec 900 casing.
    i guess this formation is better then my previous one and allowing my motherboard to cool down a lil more idle is droped by 8C, i know u dont wanna know idle temps but i see some big progress in motherboard and processor idle temps, motherboard is @ 20C idle..processor is touching 31-29C at the main time, cool air thats being blown onto the motherboard i guess is passing through the coloum and blowing directly on bottom of my cpu cooling .. i guess thats why im having some better cooled system .. i still feel i need to put an exhaust fan on my casing's side transparent cover , i got a spot there for the fan, thats ideally at spot where i want the air to go out. i have to really think here lol, never worked on air dynamics before,
    but i guess at the moment my airflow in the system is weard and unbalanced, coz of hot and cool air colliding near rear of my cpu lol .. some typhoon or something there lol.
    another thing i wanna ask, all my 4 fans have adjustable fan speed button, making different rpm settings on fans can increase cooling performance .. im sure putting all fans on max speed is not ideal .. or is it ?

    hehe .. 38C mobo and 48C processor in load now. ( so far 2hrs of prime95 )

    and this ORTHOS :mad: .. i dont know what the hell is happening .. it wont put stress on my all cores .. and you recomend me this, why its not working for me ? lol .. what did i do ?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
  14. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Have you brought up the Task Manager Process tab and right-clicked on the first instance of Orthos, choose 'Affinity' and made sure that core0 and core1 are ticked, while core2 and core3 are UNticked - then right-click on the second instance of Orthos, choose 'Affinity' and made sure that core2 and core3 are ticked and core0 and core1 are UNticked?
    That's the key right there...you're telling Windows to run the first instance of Orthos on the first 2 cores, and the second instance of Orthos to run on the second 2 cores. It doesn't really matter which cores are ticked in either instance of Orthos, as long as there's only 2 for each and they're not the same cores being stressed by the other instance.

    About your cooling - you do need to think it though and test every available combination. I really should write up a guide on this since it gets asked a lot...but what you want in a vortex inside the case, right about where the CPU HS/f is. Every system is going to be different in which way the airflow should go, some out the back, some out the front, some out the side and some out the top, but like I said, a little positive pressure is where you need to be, with as much cool air hitting that CPU HS/f as possible.
    Turning all your fans on full blast is going to be up to how your system responds...nothing in this is a guarantee since every system is going to run differently in every case.

    Psychlone
     
  15. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    the vortex, is atm behind the cpu -_- im thinkinng to move that ahead .. in the cpu .. i guess will have to add some fans to push that ahead, i have installed the cpu fan where its not supposed to be according to Zerotherm cooler lol.. i can move that two 120mm intake fans bit above .. i mean where i put my dvdroms , fans up and roms in bottom .. ill have to put some time in fan assembly -_- i figured out, its worth it .. really
     

  16. Blackwing

    Blackwing Master Guru

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    Thanks

    Good to see you still on the forums an AMD man and on the forums psy. This is little bit more different than overclocking my old 165 opteron. Thanks for the temp. information. On a stock heatsink and idle is 44 c going up to mid 50cs on load. I hit 3 ghz easy but temps jumped to 59 c after 3 minutes of stressing the cores.
    So I ordered ZEROtherm ZEN FZ120 120mm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

    . I heard good reviews on it by a few 9950 be users. Hope this really makes a dramatic improvment. That would be my only gripe about the deneb high temps.
     
  17. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    lol .. the default cooler with my phenom .. bah .. idle 48 load 55 Without any overclock lol .. i found out, these are some hot processors .. changed my casing to antec 900 and cooler to zerotherm FZ120 <--- cheap and good rebate :D
     
  18. Blackwing

    Blackwing Master Guru

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    Whats temps you getting with the zerotherm. Mine should be coming in today.

    Did you have any trouble making contact with the cpu ? Also did you have to take out motherboard to install it ?

    Thanks m8
     
  19. main_shoby

    main_shoby Guest

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    well, i wanna warn you one thing .. when removing the genuine heatsink, PLEASE BE CAREFULL .. u know .. when i pulled the heat sink out .. u know what i saw in the socket ??
    NO PROCESSOR THERE ! .. i was .. wth ?? magic ?
    the paste on the default heatsink and processor is too strong .. it pulled the processor Outa socket without opening the socket lock .. which kept me in tension untill i started my computer again .. SO PLEASE BE CAREFULL THERE ..
    2nd thing is .. this cooler is a bit weard lol , it took like 30 mins to understand and install it on my board .. mind that .. the socket holder for the motherboard that they give u with the pack is for the Intel . for Amd . u will just have to install the clip on the heat sink .. put paste and just fix the cooler in the default motherboard holder. piece of cake once u know how to .. guide with the cooler SUCKS .. i had to figure that out :S .
    im at 2940mhz, my idle is 33-35 and load is 46-48 ( with my new fan settings )
    my casing is helping me to keep my gpu and processor temps down.
     
  20. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Glad to see you around too Blackwing!
    So you gave up the Opty??

    Yep, these Phenoms are different - you've got to think about the NB now and your HT is going to be a multiple of the FSB, even if it shows as a MHz value...add all that to the RAM, CPU Multi and HT issues you had before and you've got a decent migraine coming on!;)

    Unlike the older architecture, the HT, NB and RAM are all linked, but run on multipliers now, so it's not just simple adjustments, it requires you to do the math (as per the my guide) to keep all that stuff straight...well, it *is* simple adjustments - as long as you know what you're doing and how far you can possibly go on each.

    Only 2 things are *really* different than your Opty setup - your NB *must* be higher or equal to the HT now, and when you used to have to round UP for the divisor ratio (CPU Multi / Memory Divider = Divisor Ratio) to make the math work right, now you DO NOT round at all, instead, you use the full decimal (to 2 or 3 places) to make the math work right. I struggled with that part for about 3 days until I figured out what was going on...and it was just a simple change in the architecture and how the memory controller works in the newer Phenoms. (talk about headache - I thought I was either going nutz or that every damn version of CPUz and Everest was just wrong!)

    Anyway, you've already got a good overclocking background behind you - it's just a few small adjustments from what you're used to and you're off. Something to remember is that some of these Phenoms like a high CPU Multi rather than lowering it and increasing the FSB, but I've seen it go both ways with different steppings.

    @ shoby: You ever do the Task Manager 'Affinity' trick with Orthos? I'm sure that's the problem now that I've thought about it long enough. In fact, little known to most people is that you can set the affinity of any game, app, or whatever from within Task Manager, making it so Windows is only using 1, 2, 3 or 4 cores on any given program. You can literally make it so Firefox uses 1 core, Media Player uses a different core, transcoding program using a different core, and play a game, and none of them even know the other is working. That's part of the beauty of having quad core processors...multi threaded activities!! :cool:

    Psychlone
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009

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