Taxes

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by dukedave5200, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. dukedave5200

    dukedave5200 Ancient Guru

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    The federalbudget.com website has been around for a while. That chart was updated recently though to include actual spending in 2007. But, that site does have a chart showing what is spent since it was created.

    Getting the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, as a total, was very difficult. Gathering all the data and sources was a pain.

    The cost isn't just in dollars though, human life is very precious and we've (not just the U.S., but all life) lost a lot more than any dollar amount can describe. I personally don't think the Iraq war was a good idea, I think we could have done it differently. But I do hope, and expect, at the end of this all, Iraq, the middle east, the U.S. and the world as a whole will be "better" because of this sacrifice.

    Lots of people want to say the U.S. went to war in Iraq to secure oil. To be honest, I am sure this was a factor in the thinking of the government. But I am quite certain this wasn't the only, and certainly not the major factor for this war.

    I just wish the world (and the entire U.S. for that mater) would unit behind this cause and help Iraq succeed.
     
  2. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    - couldn't agree more. I hear a lot of that too but, yeah, though I think it's naive to think it was an irrelevant consideration, it's equally naive, and ridiculously simplistic, to isolate the (always popular) issue of oil supply from such an incredibly complex array of issues.
     
  3. livesoft

    livesoft Member Guru

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    25% is provincial and 25% is federal for more than $50K income. Around $25K, you'll have around 20-30% taxes. The fact is that in the USA, taking for example 5% of business profits is the equivalent to around 15-20% of our business profits. Enterprises in the USA have more money so you have less taxes because a small 5-10% is enough while in Canada, it's not.

    And the services that you get Canada are only good when you don't have a lot of incomes, so around $25K, then you can get some money to help you. But when you have a good income, all your money gets sucked up by the gouvernment.
     
  4. dooglo

    dooglo New Member

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    This "email" has been circulating around the web for almost 3 years now. I first got this from a cousin in Canada, who got it from a friend in New England.

    I have since then recieved it four times in 3 yrs.
     

  5. dukedave5200

    dukedave5200 Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I've received it a few times too...

    The reason for this post was actually not related to this email, but I got a nice little letter from the IRS. It said I didn't do my 2006 taxes. The reason I didn't is because they would have owed me around $5. It will cost me more just to file the return (unless I do it without Turbo Tax, but that is just so much easier and worth the expense)...

    But for crying out load, they would end up owing me $5. Why the hell do I have to receive such a letter just because I didn't "file"... Maybe if they said, hey you owe is $1,000, then I can see such a letter. But that's not the case and it just annoyed me. So that's why I made this post.
     
  6. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    You beat me to the punch.

    Remember also those figures are what is spent on the Federal level and does not include what is spent on the state level. Most "social programs" are subsidized by the Federal Government and administered at the state level. Each state is required to partially match the federal funds and at the same time pay for the costs of administering the programs.

    Remember also that if we are talking about "social programs" then you must include Health and Human Services, Social Security, and parts of other agencies budgets because many of those agencies provide "needs based" services, A prime example is HUD and The Department of Education.

    Here in Alaska the natives can get a HUD subsidized loan thru Native organizations such as NIHA which is funded by US Taxpayer dollars.

    How it works is the Native Alaskan (without any real consideration if they can repay the loan at all) is provided a home that would cost Joe Six Pack $1200 month in mortgage payments however; the native buyer pays only $100-150.00 per month and NIHA/ HUD pays the remainder of the monthly mortgage payment.

    The kicker is only Natives are allowed to build these HUD Homes (no whites are allowed to be hired) and they are paid $25.00 - $28.00 hour for unskilled laborer and $30.00 - $48.00 hour for a skilled carpenter, plumber, electrician etc. If a native wants to become "skilled" the federal government will pay for a full education for the native.

    An unskilled Caucasian laborer here in Anchorage is paid $9-12.00 hour.

    All of this is paid for largely by federally subsidized native corporations.

    Mind you also that these $150,000 - $250,000 homes are built in villages that have only 50 people living there and no economy/ jobs.

    The Federal Government will also build a million dollar school in these same villages all so 8 children can attend classes.
     
  7. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    Ah but money spent on social programs is well spent. Money spent in war is wasted. If the government collects money in taxes, the people must benefit, not the defense contractors who happy as hell for the war.

    Edit: well its only fair that the government spends money for the native american population to better their lives. Hell they stole their land, its time they give back the people some form of compensation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  8. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    I would agree to a certain point that money spent on social programs can be a good thing however; when taken to an extreme such as what has happened for the last 50 years, it has done nothing but create whole generations of people who are dependent on government and can no longer take care of themselves.

    Your saying that money spent on defense and war is wasted, but that is not entirely true either.

    As for the whole we stole the natives land thing: :funny::rolleyes:
     
  9. dukedave5200

    dukedave5200 Ancient Guru

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    Maybe the $.01 for every $1.00 marked for social programs, that actually makes it to those who really do need it, is money well spent. The rest, $.99, is just wasted on poor management, those who really shouldn't get help, and total waste in general...

    Yeah, $.01 was made up, as it's hard to put a real value to what actually makes to those really in need. But I bet it's not too far off the mark :bang:
     
  10. Palerider

    Palerider Ancient Guru

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    That's too broad a statement.Wouldn't it depend on what the social programs are, or what the military objective is?My favorite example, and I will beat it to death, is the million dollar grant for some woman to urinate in a jar, drop in a crucifix,and call it "Piss Christ", as 'art'. The NEA , or National endowment of the Arts is considered a social program, and so are tons of other little grants that add up, the government has no right taking from me, and redistributing to someone else.
     

  11. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    You do realize that taxes pay for road maintenance and such right? Social services such as crisis centers and clinics. Unless they are charity run of course.

    I wholly agree that mismanagement wastes alot of the funds. I also agree that defense spending is not always bad since alot of new tech is developed. What I am opposed to is the wild spending on defense contractors.

    Art and craft are culture aspects which should be natured since the problem is people love to see concerts and such but too cheap to spend on investing. A culturally poor society is a bland place.

    As for the native american issue, history lays it out. the descendants of settlers got land easy, which is why they think "out of sight, out of mind". To be honest, the whole reservation idea was one of barbarism. Maybe one day things will change, but it seems not today
     
  12. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Good points. Regarding the email about life 100 years ago: sure there were no taxes, but there were also no rights for women or minorities, anything even close to widely available medical care..... etc. etc 'Course they had a lot we don't have too: bubonic plague, open sewage. wickedly high infant mortality, shortened lifespans...... etc. etc.

    I mean, if a person could transport themselves back in time to live in Britain 100 years ago, but you couldn't dictate your sex, skin colour or social status, would anyone really do it? (Given the extremely low probability that you'd end up in the upper classes.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  13. Palerider

    Palerider Ancient Guru

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    Don't get me wrong,I'm not some whacko who believes in zero taxation. I firmly believe my tax dollar should fund infrastructure.Again, just looky at my avatar.President/General Eisenhower is the man who brought this here.Also, social services are a must, as well-as long as they have limits, and are designed to wean the recipient off the program, and put people in a position where they earn income and pay the system back.You know the saying...Teach a man to fish....
    The problem, as I see it, is the pandering for votes, by promising "big daddy" will take care of your every need.Bull ****! the government is not big daddy, and the country, especially the economy, runs better when the people do for themselves.
    And no tax dollar has ever made a black man equal to a white man.That was free, and nobody better be thanking Washington for it.
     
  14. Skiddywinks

    Skiddywinks Ancient Guru

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    Watch Zeitgeist is you haven't already, if not for the first 2 two thirds, then for the last one, which deals with the economy and government. It's extremely interesting. And scary.

    The thing that boggles my mind in my country (The UK), is that we get taxed by such an obscene amount (Even just a chocolate bar has 17.5% tax on it, and that figure is MULTIPLIED numerous times for things like alcohol, cigarettes and petrol etc), and yet our NHS is in billions of debt, our armed forces are under staffed and under equipped, defense projects go over budget and get delayed by years (at best), and they can't afford to pay the police a poultry 30 million pay rise that meets inflation (which was a legally binding agreement that was arbitrated by an independent party. The government have illegally denied the police force the full amount decided).

    BUT, they can afford to give MPs more than inflation, can claim iPods and fish tanks on their expenses, can pay their family members 10s of thousands of pounds a year for doing NOTHING, and can use £50 BILLION of tax payers money to pay off a ruined bank's debts because the then Chancellor of the Exchequer could not see them getting into serious trouble (this guy now runs the country!).
     
  15. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Egads, not sure I want to be in a town where the Police have reason to be massively pissed-off. And getting more pissed every time they go to the store to grab a snack. Not good. Not good, not good at all.

    Methinks MPs might be getting a LOT of tickets in the very near future.
     

  16. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    I agree that the system should help to wean people off the system to become more productive and self sufficient. I believe an Nobel lauriet had formulated an ingenious plan where you lend people money and have them buy goods and let them sell it and pay back the loan and keep the profits. The reward of paying back was being allowed to borrow more money and allowed lower rates. He is from india I believe.
    The great part is that its come to a point that poor people in a village actually helped build their own bridge and maintain it.

    While they are not big daddy, they owe them since without the slave labor, these countries would be nothing. They owe the majority of their prosperity to them and should never forget it. Another thing is that rich people getting all kind of tax breaks while regular middle class getting taxed to poverty, what the hell is up with that?
     
  17. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino

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    HAHAHAHA
    100 years ago?
    I want nothing like what it was like 100 years ago.
    Poorer infastructurer, racism (the elmination of segrigation would not have happened without exantion of federal power), rancid food (go read the Jungle by Upton Sinclair), absolutely no workers rights (hurt on the job? Bye Bye), no proper K-12 eductaion unless you're rich.
    Middle class in 1908? It was in its infancy. Women didn't work in professions because they couldn't.
    National Debt compared to GDP was still significant
    Jesus this romanticization of the past has got to stop.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2008

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