No EAX support in Vista!!!

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by alanm, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    I think you will still get EAX possibly for older games through a EAX>OpenAL wrapper. OPenAL is not new it has been around for along time slowly developing. Possibly microsoft decided to AXE EAX in favor of OpenAL becasue if you think it will create a soundcard race almost overnight. Everybody is on equal footing now. Atleast thats the way I see it...only a opinion.
     
  2. GhostXL

    GhostXL Guest

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    I could care less about no EAX in vista....why???

    Well ive used every build all the way to 5840 and it sounds great. If you know how to configure your speaker settings...for example 24 bit 96k sample, I loaded up FEAR and was almost blown outta my chair. Vista lets you configure this from the sound properties in the control panel. That was even with the Creative Betas. So IMO it sounds better than EAX....
     
  3. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    Sure if your game supports OpenAL if not then alot of games will just go to stereo with no reverb or delay..so very basic sound support. Your right I couldn't care less either I was never a big fan of EAX...
     
  4. NaTez

    NaTez Member

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    Not only EAX.

    No support of hardware based mixing and rendering.
    No support of software based EAX extensions, a.k. QSOUND QEM, Sensaura, CMedia EAX. WinVista don't support the DX property set extensions.

    The only way for Hardware based soundrendering in games is really OpenAL, with support hardware based acceleration of mixing and effect prozessing. incl. EAX effects.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006

  5. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

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    I don't know why they always have to screw up something so you can't run old game anymore. With XP they screwed up the graphics part (remember bunch of gams just fail to work) and now they screwed up sound. Like they really want to break something intentionally...
     
  6. scoutingwraith

    scoutingwraith Guest

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    I curious about something. Has anyone tried Winamp to run under Vista.
     
  7. NaTez

    NaTez Member

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    two reasons. MS will play on the market of game middlewares (XNA). Easy XBOX360 ports e.g.
    And DRM. MS would like a "if possible" locked audio way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006
  8. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

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    Tried and it works. X-Fi Vista drivers are ****ty but they work. Latest version even enables CMSS and Crystalizer. Makes me wonder if anyone will write an OpenAL Out plugin for WinAMP so we'll have a native hardware supported output instead crappy emulated DirectSound Out...
     
  9. Tenkanisk

    Tenkanisk Master Guru

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    One of my bigger questions to this large change is if these old games they speak of that do not use OpenAL for sound will be installable on vista, or will the games still be only Win XP and therefor it won't matter that microsoft is switching up to the older game fans. If it won't play on vista, you dual boot with XP and run them with eax there.
     
  10. UnclePappi

    UnclePappi Banned

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    I have a question. Does anyone know if openAL has any advantages over directsound3d in games? Is it better in any way or is it just a watered down substitute?
     

  11. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    AFAIK, MS is correct in adopting OpenAL as it is supposed to be better and is more "Robust" for developers. The OpenAL API is constantly be improved upon and is supposed to be better than EAX in alot of ways. I think it's greta as MS pulled game sound technologies out of Creatives hands, now everybody can use in game effects. As for older games, they would just sound the way they always did, I mean if they never had EAX support etc..they will sound the same..
     
  12. stormy

    stormy Ancient Guru

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    Hate to rain on your parade there Rob regarding Creative, OpenAL and EAX; but you might want to have a read here,

    http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=147

    So for anyone that is bemoaning the possible loss of EAX and hardware support, etc in Vista, it looks like you are worrying for nothing (except for the older games that don't use OpenAL). Also here is a list of some of the games that use OpenAL,

    http://www.openal.org/titles.html

    most of which also use EAX when run in Windows.

    So it looks like those titles that currently support EAX/OpenAL/hardware rendering will continue to do so under Vista.
     
  13. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    Not raining on my parade. I understood most games would still work. AS I still understand it though hardware support for EAX is gone. You will still have effects through software AFAIK. I noticed alot of soundcard manufacturers ar going this way anyhow using software to add features to their soundcards. Back in the day this was a bad thing but with the developments of dual and quad core and the sppeds of PC's now the can handle these routines with little or no impact on the system. I don't really care abou the impact on Creative I don't use their cards anymore. Indeed what I am concerned with and happy about is anybody can have access and use the OpenAL routines so Creative no longer has the strangle hold on the gaming market with EAX...that's how I see it but could be wrong...
     
  14. stormy

    stormy Ancient Guru

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    To an extent. If you follow that link I posted EAX and hardware acceleration will still be available on Creative cards just like it is now. All OpenAL is another API just like DirectX/3D/Sound, only difference is that it is cross-platform instead of Windows only. The thirs quote I posted above,

    pretty much says it all. #1 will be just about any other sound card out today. #2 would cover cards like the older SB Lives with the EMU10K1 on it or any other card that has hardware support for OpenAL, and possibly something like your shiny new X-Meridian (assuming it has hardware OpenAL support, got lost in trying to read the specs). #3 covers all existing Audigy's and X-Fi's.

    Not trying to defend Creative, but if you read through what OpenAL is capable of then it appears that there is a lot of mis-information flying about in this thread in regards to how things are going to work sound-wise in Vista.

    Don't forget games like BF2/2142 already use OpenAL and EAX, and it is done in hardware when played on an Audigy/X-Fi. Same thing applies to the UT series and most if not all the games that used the same engine (which the UT games even come with the in-game option of using the games own OpenAL path (software) or your soundcards OpenAL (hardware if the right card)).
     
  15. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    There is alot of Mis-information as a whole about this subject on the net.
    Hence the confusion on this forum. I will do some more reading later on and see what I can make of the specs...
    BTW, Oh yeah, she does shine, Gold plating on the connectors and bracket and the standards are written on the card "DTS" "Dolby" also in gold...
    Look for a slightly used audigy 2 stormy? I am never gonna use a Creative card again. Unless I am using the DSP for effects...
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006

  16. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    Yes the Title of this thread is a bit ..confusing to people..
     
  17. stormy

    stormy Ancient Guru

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    Maybe this will help some,

    http://www.openal.org/openal_vista.html

    That is probably what has got most with their panties in a knot. Then there is the next little bit from the same paragraph,

    Which says that as long as a game's audio is written using OpenAL that nothing will change from how it is now.
     
  18. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

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    Well yeah and if there is no more hardware acceleration fo Directsound3D then EAX is no longer HW accelerated by itself. As the way I understand it EAX is just extensions of the Directsound3D routines more or less.
    YEs as long as a game is written using OpenAL then everything is great BUT if the game only has EAX 2 or up you may have a problem. Correct?
     
  19. GhostXL

    GhostXL Guest

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    Not true bro not at all. Vista has totally dif built in system. You MUST set it from the sound options in the control panel for it to work. Games that dont support OpenAL DO NOT revert to stereo. Whatever you force in the sound options in control panel for vista stays. I've done it so many times already with every new build...

    You may not get the fancy environmental effects...BUT you still get the ex. 96k 24bit sample rates, and ex 5.1 or 7.1 whichever you set it to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006
  20. stormy

    stormy Ancient Guru

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    Except that EAX can be, and is used under OpenAL, and using hardware too boot.

    Wrong (sorry),

    For which I broke down the compatibility (hardware/software) a couple of posts ago.

    Like I said, unless I completely misread what is being said at,

    http://www.openal.org/openal_vista.html

    and

    http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=147

    then the only thing anyone is losing is EAX/hardware support for games that are/were written using DirectSound.
     

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