Possible? If so, how? FX5900->Quadro / 6800->Quadro

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by DarknessGFX, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. matrix681

    matrix681 New Member

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    thx guys, this thread is a very good "howTo" for the softmod of a GeForce.
    nice work!


    i have a little different question, it's about the memory-size and the pipelines.
    i know, that the pipelines are important for the performance of a modded quadro.

    but whats about the memory size?

    i have three possible cards to buy, all ~ 200€

    first, a GeForce 6800GT with 16 pipelines, but slow chiptact (350 / 500) - 256 MB:
    (the chiptact can be easy overclock to 450)
    http://www.geizhals.at/a135056.html

    second, a GeForce 6800GS, with 12 pipelines, but faster tact (425 / 500) - 256 MB:
    http://www.geizhals.at/a179401.html

    and third, a GeForce 6800GS, with 12 pipelines and fast tact (425 / 500) - 512 MB:
    http://www.geizhals.at/a173466.html


    i assume, that #3 will be faster then #2. (same pipelines, same tact, more memory)

    but would #1 faster then #2, cause of the more pipelins in face of the slower tacts?

    and if, would #3 faster then #1 cause of the larger memory and faster tact, in face of the 4 pipelines more at #1 ?



    kindly regards and thx in advance (and sorry for my bed english :) )
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006
  2. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Please read what I wrote above:

    *************************************************************
    HOWEVER: on PCI Express, there are some GeForce 6800's that have NV41 core;
    GeForce 6800 GS, GeForce 6800 LE, GeForce 6800 XT and plain GeForce 6800,
    (remember we are talking about PCI Express versions of these)
    - these are not possible to modify to Quadro. Not at all. Most likely, never. :(
    The only ones that are currently verified to ALWAYS have NV40 (which are possible to mod)
    are GeForce 6800 Ultra and GeForce 6800 GT. :)
    So if you are going to buy one now, those are the ones you should choose. ;)
    **************************************************************


    This mean both 2. and 3. card, which are both 6800 GS, will not be moddable.

    The first card (or any other 6800 GT or 6800 Ultra) is your only choice.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006
  3. matrix681

    matrix681 New Member

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    ups, sorry :(

    and thx for the fast reply :)


    but only for theorie: if #2 and #3 would be cards with NV40, which one will be the fastest? :)
     
  4. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    About the memory size vs. speed, you mean..?

    I believe that...
    (I take it that you do not want to use it to play games with high anti-aliasing settings, like 8x or 16x
    - and would need a much bigger framebuffer because of this!)


    ..as long as you have *enough* for your scene, you will not see any difference in speed between a 256 MB or a 512 MB card.
    I mean, if your scene uses, as an example, 240 MB,
    there should be no difference in speed between having a 256 MB card with 16 MB left unused,
    or a 512 MB card with 272 MB left unused.

    However, the moment your scene is *bigger* than 256 MB, the 256 MB card
    will need to "borrow" MB's from your ordinary mainboard RAM to supplement, and this will be a lot slower
    than having the 512 MB card...

    So I guess it depends on what kind of scenes you create.
    Btw, I assume you will be using it for 3d work..?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006

  5. nirishere

    nirishere New Member

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    Hi !
    I myself am into softmodding my new not-yet-bought Card, into a Quadro.
    The thing is that there are various kinds of 6800 GT's and Ultra's and I am getting kind of confused.

    One is called for example :
    nVIDIA GeForce PX6800 256MB Leadtek
    => The cheapest yet, (not a GT, though , and therefore, not SoftModdable ?)

    Another two:
    nVIDIA GeForce PX6800 256MB Leadtek
    => a lot more expensive ~600$ (!!)

    nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB PCI-E (core 350MHz, mem 1000MHz GDDR3, bus 256-Bit, pixpipes 16) ~466$ (!)

    So, are the GT's so expensive afterall ? Is there a GT or Ultra version that is the cheapest yet softmoddable ?
    thanx !
     
  6. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    No. A 6800 GT should be max. 300 USD$.

    It is the "NV-number" that tells if the cardf is moddable.
    NV40, NV45 and NV48 is moddable.
    NV43 revision A2 is moddable.
    No other are moddable.

    The old 6800 "plain" cards were made with NV40 and were moddable.
    New 6800 "plain" which is bought new these days are usually made with NV41/42
    and not moddable.

    All 6800 GT's / Ultra's have NV40 or NV45 or NV48 chips
    and these are moddable.

    The problem is that Nvidia does not - AFAIK - make NV40/NV45/NV48 chips anymore.
    So they are becoming very rare.
    Ebay would be the cheapest place, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2006
  7. Optikn3rv

    Optikn3rv Member Guru

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    GPU:
    Nvidea GTX 670
    jesus i just did mu 6800GT 256mb (NV40) and from reboot monitor went in to power save mode and i couldnt get it to work. Terrible having a black screen as u cant do anything. Only solution i had was boot to safe mode and uninstall Rivtuner, dunno if its a bug but rivtuner keeps setting my fans to 25 25 100 after i choose 53 80 100 and this causes the card to get hot even in 2d mode and then my pc locks up due to hot card.
     
  8. Kellscott

    Kellscott New Member

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    GPU:
    GeForce 7800 GTX 512
    From Clokkevi:
    Just to let you know, that after reading, I modified my command for my laptop and got a NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 Ultra.
    Well, deception for me as I can not softmode the card: it is a NV 42!! and this card is from August 2005.
    So if you get a 6800 card, I don't know how, but make sure you can check what chips it is made off.

    Not always easy I found.
     
  9. Kellscott

    Kellscott New Member

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    GPU:
    GeForce 7800 GTX 512
    I have another pc with a 6800 that I softmode to a 4400 quadro. But it took me 3 try to get it right and not having any conflict anymore. The black out screen was the first problem, then the multi screen and finally media centre which didn't like it either. So , I know it's not a solution, but don't give up
     
  10. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Hmm.. it seems you concluded with that
    a desktop "GeForce 6800 Ultra" card was using the same GPU as
    a mobile "GeForce Go 6800 Ultra" card. That is not correct.

    *ALL* mobile "GeForce Go 6800" and "GeForce Go 6800 Ultra" cards are using NV41/NV42 (same chip, different name)
    - and so *NONE* are moddable.

    Until now - *ALL* non-mobile GeForce 6800 *Ultra* and *GT* are using NV40, NV45 or NV48
    - and so *ALL* are moddable.
    But AlecRyben posted that new (as in summer of 2006, I guess) GeForce Ultra's are now using NV41/NV42 as well..

    In general, to find out which Nvidia card uses which GPU, I always look at
    http://www.ngohq.com/showthread.php?t=3144
    - post #2, the "Localisable strings list"


    But as you can see on that list, some cards with the same name have several different IDs, e.g. the plain GeForce 6800 (non-Ultra, non-GT..):

    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0041.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C1.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
    NVIDIA_NV48.DEV_0211.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"


    The newer NV41/NV42 version is *not* moddable, as we know.
    The older NV40 and NV48 versions *are* moddable.

    So, indeed, to get to know 100% sure which GPU is used in e.g. a plain GeForce 6800, it's best to test the card.


    In this list you can also see *why* the 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra will always be moddable : we know that
    NV40, NV45 and NV48 based "6800 cards" are the only moddable ones;

    Here are the different 6800 GT cards:
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
    NVIDIA_NV45.DEV_0046.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
    NVIDIA_NV48.DEV_0215.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"


    Here are the only 6800 Ultra card:
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0040.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra"


    However, there is one more moddable card, which is neither listed as NV40, NV45 or NV48, and that is the PCI-E version of 6800 Ultra;
    AFAIK, this one has the ID

    NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F9.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Series GPU"

    (This one has a NV45, so *that* is why it is moddable.)



    Also in this list are both the mobile, *non-moddable* 6800 *Go* cards:

    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C8.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800"
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C9.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 Ultra"

    Both are listed as NV41 (which, as I wrote is the same as NV42) - so they are all non-moddable.


    For very new cards, I also download one or more of the latest Detonator drivers and extract out "nv4_disp.inf"
    This may show model-names / ID's that have not yet been put up on the www.ngohq.com site.


    If you are going to buy a used 6800 card, it is a quick way to find out if it has a NV40/NV45/NV48 or not.
    The card has to be installed in the sellers PC, or at least been installed there before.
    Start -> Run... -> regedit

    If the card is still installed, you may go straight to
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\NVTweak\Devices\]
    The sub-key will be showing
    Nvidia's "Vendor ID" which is "10DE"
    and the card's "Device ID"
    and the card's "SubSys ID" (I guess it's the manufacturer, like ASUS, MSI etc)
    and the GPU chip's "Revision ID"
    E.g. in my registry the sub-key is
    "VEN_10DE&DEV_0045&SUBSYS_96601462&REV_A1&INST00"
    The important thing is of course the card's "Device ID", which is "DEV_0045"
    Looking in the list in post # 2 at http://www.ngohq.com/showthread.php?t=3144 we see
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
    (My card is currently not in Quadro FX 4000 mode)


    If the seller has already replaced the card with another card, then you should try to look at
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Control Panel\Settings\Video\]
    Here both the PC's current and past graphic cards should be listed.
    Look for sub-keys starting with "PCI:VEN_10DE"
    Then write down all the "DEV_****" numbers
    Then ask him what card is currently installed, and if he has had even more Nvidia cards installed.
    Based on that info, you should be able to see if the card is moddable or not.

    As an example: He has replaced the AGP 6800 plain with a AGP 7800 GS.
    In the registry you find 2 sub-keys:
    "PCI:VEN_10DE&DEV_0041..."
    "PCI:VEN_10DE&DEV_00F5..."
    So, you write down "DEV_0041" and "DEV_00F5"
    - and looking in the http://www.ngohq.com/showthread.php?t=3144 list you see both...:
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0041.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800" ; this must be the card he had before, it's NV40 and moddable
    NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F5.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS ; this is his new card
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006

  11. indra

    indra New Member

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    GPU:
    Winfast 6600 @ Quadro FX5
    NV43 rev.A2

    I just buy Winfast 6600T with 6600 / NV 43 in revision A2, see in RT.
    Wowww... yeaah... :eek3:
    Maybe an old stuff, i buy it new in a sale event last week. Cheap, under 90$.

    Clokkevi, i've been searching for its mods to Quadro. But found nothing.
    Is its mods same/equivalent as your tutorial mod 6800xx to Quadro in this site ?

    Sorry for my poor english.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2006
  12. bej

    bej New Member

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    3
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    GPU:
    nVidia 6800GT
    Database for cards with good chips?

    I've had a Leadtek A400 GT TDH AGP 8X for a year and it developed the garbled screen problem: http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic17943.html (didn't see this before buying the card), so it's being RMA'd (not that it will do any good according to the thread). Now, I'm attempting to find a replacement and have seen some posts about cards people have found and there's always one crucial bit of data or other missing. Can we develop some sort of database that lists what cards people have found, *where they found it* and what GPU is in there? Trying to learn this information any other way is near to impossible and one can go broke in shipping and restock fees trying out every card on the market to see if it has a good chip or not, when some of them did but now do not.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  13. indra

    indra New Member

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    GPU:
    Winfast 6600 @ Quadro FX5
    Sorry

    Ooops, i don't want make an Out Of Topic messages, i have started a new thread about 6600 mod quadro at http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=191856

    beside another site like that :
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=190116
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=188183
    etc.
     
  14. laotan

    laotan New Member

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    Hi all,
    I am new to hacking the geForce into a Quadro business and currently I am interested in getting a geForce on ebay to try it out. In particular, I am looking at this geForce 6800 Ultra PCI-E from BFG. Is it still safe to assume that all geForce 6800 Ultra still uses the moddable core? (there is a previous post stating that nVidia is changing them some time this year).

    Thuan Seah
     
  15. shonofear

    shonofear Member

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    GPU:
    AOpen 6800 ULTRA > Quadro fx
    My turn to try...

    G'day,
    I'm also about to embark on the Quadro soft mod from a AOpen 6800ULTRA, bought from ebay.
    Im really exicted about it, just waiting for arrival.
    In mean time I have a few questions to ask...

    Will the Quadro have much improvements on Video editing/motion graphics/compositing apps using OPEN GL for realtime display?
    I think Commbustion/after effects and maybe Shake do...
    plz correct me if im wrong.

    I also was wondering if it was possible to soft mod under LINUX so that I can use SHAKE compositing program (dont have windows version)

    Main programs I will be using are, After effects, Combustion, Maya, 3D's max, slight CAD work.

    And shall I get SpecView ver 7, 8 or 9?

    I would also like to thank all the support especially mr Riva tuner himself and clokkevi for their ongoin support.

    Cheers fellas, ill post my results soon
    :)
     

  16. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Well - AFAIK, there is still no-one that has posted anything about their GeForce 6800 Ultra having anything otheer than the "NV45" (NV40 + BR02). So I would say "Yes, it is still safe to assume this".
    However - since no NV40's are made anymore, what will happen when the supply is used up? Will the vendors just stop creating GeForce 6800 Ultra's?
    Or will they use an NV41/NV42 (used in 6800 GS) overclocked to Ultra speed?
    If I should guess, then at least the "good" vendors will just stop creating/selling 6800 Ultras.. the users that want "Ultra" speed these days (in games) ususally want GeForce 7 cards, not GeForce 6 cards.
     
  17. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    @shonofear: Yes, I think at least Combustion works better with Quadro than GeForce.
    Then about the 3d apps, Maya *was* at least better with Quadro, because of the hardware overlay options. 3ds Max however, seems to be *much* faster in Direct3D mode than OpenGL or MAXtreme mode.
    About Shake, I have only tried Shake v2.51 in Windows, it seems good.
    Under Linux.. since it was that platform it started on, I always thought that it had to be the "best" platform for it... however, I read something about the OpenGL drivers for Linux was - in general - not as good as under Windows, and so this affected of course also Shake under Linux. I can't really understand that OpenGL under Linux can be bad?? I mean all the highend Autodesk/Discreet systems, even Inferno, is now running on Linux, in OpenGL mode. If I had been using Linux myself I would have known more about this, I guess..!
    I see qbod already gave you the link to AlecRyben's BIOS-flash-mod how-to, so I will just say good luck, and please post your results! :)
     
  18. shonofear

    shonofear Member

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    GPU:
    AOpen 6800 ULTRA > Quadro fx
    yay... mission complete, my very own Quadro

    Success!!!
    Finally had a chance to mod my new Geforce 6800 ULTRA PCIe.
    My new PC setup consists of:

    Core 2 Duo E6300
    Gigabyte GA-965P-S3
    2x512 Corsair VS 667 DDR2
    250gig WD SATA 2
    AOpen 6800 ULTRA pci-e >>> Quadro fx 4000

    i used SpecViewPerf 7.1.1 and results were..

    Geforce drivers

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.74

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 6.413

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 79.05

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 17.83

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.526

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.609


    Quadro Fx Drivers

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 38.52

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 68.41

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 77.14

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 38.48

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 46.90

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 51.99


    I'm a happy man, thanks for all ya help peoples.
    I will try the new SpecViewPerf 9 soon and also Maya 6.5 test.

    I also have got the next mission to bios flash for a linux...
    QUESTION.
    -If I want to install Linux on a different Partition, will Bios flashin it work...???
    Im a little confused if it will work the same.
    Ok cheers
     
  19. shonofear

    shonofear Member

    Messages:
    14
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    GPU:
    AOpen 6800 ULTRA > Quadro fx
    Question

    hey again,
    Mr clokkevin...

    Question for you,

    I read somewhere (can't find anymore) that you could change back and forth between your modded Quadro and Geforce with the change of a few numbers/letters in some file somewhere....

    If this is true, how can I do this?
    Mainly for the reason I would like to benchmark some more tests with differences.....

    i figurerd it must be sumthing like this...

    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT" was changed to
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_004E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000"

    quoted by you in another thread.

    ANY IDEA?

    thanks
     
  20. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Hehe.. yes, and no.

    Your card is - when you buy it - "0045".
    In the drivers there is a file - "nv4_disp.inf".

    If you edit it like this, from..
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT" to
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 9800 Ultra" or even
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro 13000 Total Ultra Hyper Deluxe"
    .. what will happen, is that these new names will show up in Windows..
    ..but the card will - obviously - have the same 6800 GT performance.

    I once wrote a post about doing this edit as a sort of joke, I hope it is not that one you have read...!


    To actually change the performance, it is the internal ID that have to be changed. And there is no text file you can write in.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    The correct way to change between GeForce 6800 GT / Quadro FX 4000:

    Go to the "NVStrap driver" page in RivaTuner.
    (To get there: "Customize..." triangle -> "Low-level system tweaks" (left-most) button, then select "NVStrap driver" tab)

    "Use ROM straps for PCI programming" should always be ON.
    This is what makes this so easy, so you don't need to patch drivers, etc.

    Then there is 2 things to do when changing:

    1.
    In the "Graphics adapter identification",
    switch from "determined by hardware" to "Quadro" if you want Quadro,
    or back to "determined by hardware" if you want GeForce.

    2. "Unlock professional capabilities"
    - this should be switched ON when you want Quadro,
    - or switched OFF when you want GeForce.

    Then just click Apply, then OK.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    RivaTuner will tell you to restart Windows,
    after you have restarted, Windows will use a bit more time to find the "new" card,
    and look at the "oem**.inf" file etc, all is automatic, just wait...
    ..then, your card has been changed.. ! :)

    Very easy!
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2006

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