Help please with battery going flat when powered off

Discussion in 'Laptops & Notebooks' started by Mufflore, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    My Asus Vivobook S14 K3402 laptop consumes an 80% charged battery in about 1.5 weeks when powered off.
    Its only used for displaying art work and can be off for a few weeks by which time the battery is most certainly flat.
    I'm worried for the batteries life as its not good for a Lithium battery to go flat and is especially bad to leave it flat for a long time.
    And this is pretty inconvenient.
    The battery app shows it losing significant % of power every day and when it goes flat even the clock stops! The time isnt lost, it actually stops at the time the battery went flat. I need to update it before the laptop is used for fear of ruining time logs.

    I've been through the usual suspects and havent found a way to prevent it happening.
    Things I've changed:

    . Turned off hibernation.
    . Prevented it going to sleep.
    . Disabled fast boot in the OS and BIOS setup.
    . Shutting down with command prompt: shutdown /s, to be sure it does properly shut down.

    Battery log:
    13/03/23 22:45 79%
    15/03/23 21:35 62% = -8.5% per day
    18/03/23 20:15 39% = -7.5% per day

    Does anyone have any ideas how to stop it being so parasitic?
    Thanks.

    ps
    OS is Windows 11
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  2. wavetrex

    wavetrex Ancient Guru

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    Here's a wild thought... leave it plugged in all the time.

    Modern charge controllers know to stop charging when battery is over a certain level, and only restarts when it drops below a certain threshold. It's not trickle charging it all the time.

    My laptop is about 3 years old now and has stayed plugged basically continuously since then, and the battery is in perfect state, lasts exactly as much as it lasted when I got it new.
     
  3. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    People ruin batteries by charging them wrong. I never charge a battery unless it's below 10% first. Believe it or not batteries have a sort of memory and if incorrectly charged they start losing the amount of charge they can hold.

    I've sort of proved this already as me and my misses both got a new Samsung phone both identical. She started charging hers even with like 40% charge left. Where as i only charged mine once below 10%.

    Now my phone battery lasts a lot longer than hers does even with identical usage. I told her to wait until the phone is near fully discharged first before charging but she ignored me anyway, she now moans about how her phone doesn't last a few days any longer but mine does.

    Other things can also factor in. Like temps because a cold battery will discharge faster than a warmer battery.
     
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  4. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Thanks, I considered doing that and may revisit it with better information on its safety.

    Some things making me shy away from permanently leaving on charge:
    More wear on the power supply/charger and battery. I hope to give this laptop away in 3 to 5 years.

    A more serious reason I'm not a fan of leaving lithiums on charge:
    My previous mobile phone was left with power connected from a quality USB-C charger almost permanently.
    At around 2.5 years old the battery started to swell which I then found is dangerous to have in the house. Risk of fire, explosion and dangerous fumes, with higher risk when charging. And getting it out of the house in time might not be possible because lithium batteries burn so ferociously and water only makes it worse!
    Yet it continued to work with a swollen cell and charged fine still, before I realised why the phones case hadnt fitted very well during its last few months.

    On this laptop I cannot see the battery nor have any access to it. It can only be charged with a USB-C port.
    So there probably isn't a way to know about this type of battery failure until too late.
    If it were to happen while out or asleep ...


    I prefer a way to bring power use down to near zero when powered off, if possible.
    It would be a poor design that wont allow this but wouldnt be surprised with how things are these days.
    Its proven impossible to resolve from the documentation Asus provide.
     

  5. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for the info.
     
  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Cell damage is causing the battery to self discharge rapidly, this is usually a result of coming into contact with the tape surrounding the battery itself within the package.

    No, modern (Li-ion) batteries do NOT have a sort of memory.
     
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  7. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Ewww, I guess its time to ask Asus how it should perform (and possibly why if its behaving normally)!

    I think you are probably right because I looked very hard for other people having the same experience and came across a pretty fat zero.
    Damn, I never buy Asus normally except for motherboards because support isnt easy.
    Thanks for the headsup.
     
  8. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    Time to replace the battery.
     
  9. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    The issue hasnt been confirmed yet, the laptop is only 4 months old, its not age or heavy useage related.
    Also the battery cannot be removed.
     
  10. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    the battery is a consumable item, and I've never known Asus to not have it be removable. Even during my tenure as a Customer Care agent, every Asus laptop's battery was removable.

    The age of the battery is irrelevant, as the battery itself could have a defect / bad cells from inception.
     

  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Its not removable, no part of the case can be opened.

    This is the laptop, very thin, mine is 16GB.
    https://www.hitechcentury.com/asus-vivobook-s14-review-k3402za/
    Its a shame no review shows the underside, the only way in is undo all the screws.
     
  12. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    I can see the seam. It's like my laptop: screws and internal clips hold it together. Flip it over, remove the screws, and use a separation tool along the seam to separate the underside. Then gently look under the under-lid to make sure no ribbon connections exist. Mine has 2 ribbons for LEDs but I can adjust the placement enough to get access to M.2 and Wifi, and open the ports for the 2 ribbons if I need more access, like getting to the vapor chamber.
     
  13. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @Mufflore

    Are you aware that by default Windows (power plan) setting for power button action (and menu power off action) is "Sleep" and not "Shutdown"?

    Code:
    Setting:
      Power button action
    
    Description:
      Specify the action to take when you press the power button.
    
    Subgroup:
      Power buttons and lid
    
    Possible values (index - hexadecimal or string value - friendly name - descr):
      0 - 00000000 - Do nothing - Do nothing
      1 - 00000002 - Sleep - Sleep
      2 - 00000003 - Hibernate - Hibernate
      3 - 00000006 - Shut down - Shut down
      4 - 00000008 - Turn off the display - Turn off the display
    
    Subgroup / Setting GUIDs:
      4f971e89-eebd-4455-a8de-9e59040e7347 / 7648efa3-dd9c-4e3e-b566-50f929386280
    
    Default value for schemes:
              Balanced:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
      High performance:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
           Power saver:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
    
    Code:
    Setting:
      Start menu power button
    
    Description:
      Specify the action to take when you press the Start menu power button.
    
    Subgroup:
      Power buttons and lid
    
    Possible values (index - hexadecimal or string value - friendly name - descr):
      0 - 00000002 - Sleep - Sleep
      1 - 00000003 - Hibernate - Hibernate
      2 - 00000006 - Shut down - Shut down
    
    Subgroup / Setting GUIDs:
      4f971e89-eebd-4455-a8de-9e59040e7347 / a7066653-8d6c-40a8-910e-a1f54b84c7e5
    
    Default value for schemes:
              Balanced:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
      High performance:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
           Power saver:  AC=Sleep  |  DC=Sleep
    
    My first ever rig was laptop. There was an accident caused by my wife: laptop was powered down when she tried to insert external floppy dongle with LPT port connector into doc-station connector (they kinda looked similar) - and that led to chipset explosion because it was actually powered and LPT port connector caused a short-circuit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  14. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Its brand new and Asus like to refuse warranty so I wont be unscrewing the whole underside panel, that is the only way in.
    There is no battery panel, I'm not sure what you are seeing.
    I'll take photos of it tomorrow in daylight for you.
     
  15. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I'll take a look at this in a bit, its on charge atm, it dropped 20% battery in less than 2 days!
     

  16. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Thinking about it, this cant be part of the problem because I use a command prompt shutdown /s, not the power button.
     
  17. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    First off, opening the underside panel will not void your warranty. As a Customer Care rep for Asus, I was never instructed to void warranties for that. As long as you don't break it, Asus will honor the warranty. And you can ignore the void stickers, we honestly don't check those, and in fact, Asus stopped using them.

    Yes, there are no panels. The models open by undoing the screws, and separating the side seam using a seam tool. (They look like nylon guitar picks) It's like opening a tablet or cell phone, as the sides are held together by internal clips. I usually start at a corner, and pry it up, and then follow the seam.

    You can also check the battery calibration by letting it drain completely then fully charging it. The ACPI sensor can get wonky and report bad info.
     
  18. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Wait while you see the screw heads and then tell me they dont want it opened!
    I've never seen anything so tiny.

    And I'm not sure how you ever saw a battery panel/clips, there are none externally.
    Opening it up is not an option. I'm happy for you to quote your experience but I have to deal with Asus.
    Again, its brand new and under warranty. I dont need to replace the battery.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  19. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    Then call Asus and setup an RMA, and take it to your local Best Buy. BB is a contracted repair outlet for Asus, and will ship it to Indiana for repairs. Or ship it to CA to Asus' facility.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  20. gQx

    gQx Active Member

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    3 years?! hard to believe they last that long with still %100 health condition
     

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