We need to talk about UE4 Shader compilation issues

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by snight01, Mar 12, 2022.

  1. snight01

    snight01 Master Guru

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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
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  2. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    And stutter too in A Plague Tale: Requiem. Not UE engine, but does anybody has any idea how to fix it?

    It's really weird, because it's stutters/hitches that do not show up in frametimes. I have a flat 16.6ms frametimes line in RTSS but I can clearly see the hitches just orbiting the camera, not even loading new assets or new areas... :confused:

    Tried both 522.25 and 530.04 drivers but it's the same.
     
  3. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    I got a small improvement by disabling Control Flow Guard for the game.
    But there are still stutters when loading a new area.
     
  4. Dan Longman

    Dan Longman Master Guru

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    Yeah notice these stutters as well, and like you frametime graph is a straight line. really weird.
     

  5. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    RTSS catch most stutters in game, but not all of them, DF talked about another game that did the same, forgot which one it was, was a terrible PC port too apparently.
     
  6. Dan Longman

    Dan Longman Master Guru

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    I seem to remember that being the launch version of Horizon Zero Dawn, that has been updated to fix most of the issues since then but yeah it was a garbage pc port at launch.
     
  7. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    Had that off too, but stutters are still there. No need to enter a new area , just moving the camera left and right for some seconds. Tried in DX11 with DXVK but it's all the same crap. This game is just bugged and needs a patch.
     
  8. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    What CPU do you have?
    A Plague Tale seems to use very little vram, despite having some highly detailed textures.
    So my guess is this game is relying heavily on a streaming system. And that requires a fast CPU and fast memory.
     
  9. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    Ryzen 9 3900X, but the same stutters are present even with the game on Low at 1080p, with an area already loaded and just moving the camera in place.
     
  10. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    What memory speed?
     

  11. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    Now that I am at it...

    upload_2022-10-20_17-32-14.png
     
  12. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    3600 MTs is good, as it would give you a max theoretical bandwidth of 57.6 GB/s
    But those timings are awful.
    You are probably very far from the theoretical limit. And I bet latency is rather weak.

    Try using Dram Calculator to tighten those timings.
     
  13. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    I don't know... I'm not a fan of risking stability and/or having to clear the CMOS. Read bad things about DRAM Calculator:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/mcfkan/psa_please_stop_using_the_dram_calculator/

    And what would I *really* have to gain? it's not gonna be like OC'ing the CPU from 3.8GHz to 4.1GHz or the GPU from 1815MHz to 2055MHz and GPU Memory +500MHz...
     
  14. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    You would gain much higher memory throughput.
    This will reduce stutter from assets streaming and increase CPU performance.
    There is a lot more to gain from optimizing ram, than from adding 300Mh to the CPU.
     
  15. jesped

    jesped Member Guru

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    After a lot of fiddling and a hell of blue and screen deaths, CMOS resets and tests this is the best I could came up with:
    upload_2022-10-24_0-14-2.png

    all my attempts at lowering the main timings beyond that lead to crashes, non-booting, instability, ... but even if I'm not a silicon lottery winner I think these numbers are not half bad, right? considering there's plenty of people out there with my same sticks that can't even boot their systems using the default XMP profile.

    And 'A Plague Tale: Requiem' keeps hitching/stuttering exactly the same. It's less noticeable using mouse than using a gamepad, but I think it's just due to the camera movement being different.

    This games is just fuked up, and sadly there's many people that are not sensible enough to hitching/stuttering or don't care.
     
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  16. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    I've seen many comments on YT and Reddit where people dismiss stuttering out of hand as a "petty complaint from spoiled and entitled gamers" lol

    It's crazy how 1) many people seem to really not notice it or care about it and 2) people will often go beyond and assert that anyone that DOES notice or care must be kicking up a fuss over nothing.

    On the one hand I envy such folks given being sensitive to this sort of thing kinda sucks but on the other hand stuttering and hitching are a huge concern -- for me the greatest evil in gaming when it comes to performance -- and devs/publishers should not be given a pass for such issues. Part of the issue may be Microsoft for dragging their feet on direct storage but games out there definitely do exist that are modern high detail open world type titles that do not suffer from asset streaming or shader compilation stutter so it can clearly be done.
     
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  17. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    This is exactly why I am very happy 3DV Cache parts are a thing now. It really seems like what the 5800X3D revealed was how users were being hamstrung by RAM not being fast enough. Though I'd still argue the issue is one of optimization in a lot of cases. Yes, you can technically "brute force" past poor optimization sometimes but it's not something I would ever want devs to depend on. Frankly if, let's say for sake of theory, a 3700X with your standard 3600 MHz 16 gigs + NVMe drive system has stuttering issues in games today, that seems rather unacceptable in my book. In general terms something needs to happen in the industry so that asset streaming and shader compilation are handled more elegantly in general terms. My "hope" is Direct Storage will save us from this, but maybe my hopes are too high.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  18. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    That is s nice improvement. But one thing, primary timings are not the most important.
    The most important are TRFC, this one is just a matter of lowering as much as possible.
    TFAW, tRRDS and TRRDL ideally should be 16-4-4. Might take a bit of fiddling with some impedances to make it stable.

    Can you post a screenshot of Zen Timings?
    Do you know what type of memory you have?
     
  19. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    I have no stutters while panning the camera while playing A Plague's Tale Requiem, with my 580X3D. Frame rate fluctuates, depending on what is being rendered. But no stutters.
    The only time I have stutters is when entering a new area and the game loads assets.
    Now I don't know how much it is the cache or the tweaked memory.

    I found that TestMem TM5 is a great benchmark for memory. It does a whole bunch of reads, writes and copies to stress the memory.
    For comparison, with my memory at 3800Mt/s, but with XMP timings, it takes a bit over 5 minutes to complete one run of 1usmus_v3 preset.
    But with my memory tweaked, it goes down to under 3 minutes.

    Aida64 is s cute benchmark, but there are a lot of settings that make no difference in their test, but that affect memory performance a lot.
     
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  20. PapaJohn

    PapaJohn Master Guru

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    Must have a magical system then if you have no stutters when panning and someone else does....right? :rolleyes:

    How's No Man's Sky coming along, Knobert? lol
     

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