Review: Ryzen 9 7950X processor (with ASRock X670E Taichi motherboard)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 26, 2022.

  1. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    100% legit comment.
    Just because somebody who gets free hardware and gets paid to do crazy things to hardware, does things to hardware, doesnt mean its an ideal path for everybody else to take.
     
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  2. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    maybe, I think what we might see is something like the die being exposed embedded in a ceramic plate/package or something like that, which would minimize the risk of cracking and improve thermal conductivity of the substrate , the area of the top of the die is simply not going to be large enough to dissipate the heat via copper no matter how large the ihs is, so you have to start removing heat from wherever you can.
     
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  3. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Lapping, i remember when that was a thing and made a huge difference. I still have my i7 2700k which i lapped to within an inch of its IHS life, it is proper wafer thin but gave me some great temps.
     
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  4. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    my point is not removing the heat but facilitating its transfer. with existing technology the best way is the way already in use with whatever cooling formula you prefer.
    the fact of the matter is that the EE's and thermodynamicists looked at this issue for over two years with a R&D budget that no commentator can equal or gainsay.
    the Y/T guys are just churning clickbait as none of them have the C.V. or manufacturing experience.

    show me a study from a Uni with a large sample case over a given period of time and i'll look at that sympathetically.
     

  5. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    I've read a few papers on the matter, A copper ihs , its a time tested, stable, mass producible and effective design, but it definitely isn't the best there is. There are things like integrating vapor chambers into the IHS itself or water channels, filling the space between the ihs and the substrate , direct die of course, all provide some degree of improvement over straight copper. The reason we don't see more exotic setups is because of the initial investment, it has to be worth the time. if X solution is 10c better than ihs, how much performance/efficiency does that buy you, and how much does it cost to setup mass production? does it effect the defect rate negatively? the amount of money it makes you has to be more than it costs you before you'll see any changes.

    As of yet , there isn't any such movement because it isn't worth it, say amd was able to reduce the temps of 7000 by 10c by using some fancy new package . thats only going to buy you ~50mhz maybe. not really worth retooling for, however once we start hitting really high densities >300 million mT per mm^2 , that equation might start to look more favourable to other methods, but it could still be a while, as you can always compensate by increasing the amount of cooling you have or increasing the max operating temp, which are probably cheaper.
     
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  6. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    yes

    and part of my disapproval of delidding comes from the fact one can mod a mini-fridge into a chiller for less than the cost (& risk) of delidding, plus LN2 (and storage).
    in fact if you're handy you can build one under $400, including all of the custom copper fittings of the chiller, plus having cold beer at the end of the day
     
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  7. Krizby

    Krizby Ancient Guru

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    Way to destroy your entire PC vs killing only the CPU

    Ever heard of condensation?
     
  8. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Wouldn't mind seeing an idiots guide to that.
     
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  9. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    Hey Gurus,

    I didn't chime in earlier because I wanted to become more educated on the new technology along with strengths and weaknesses. I had multiple conversations with so many of you about 4k and higher resolution performance being handled mainly by the GPU. As I've learned from multiple members and my own experiences, a stronger processor can give a little help with 4k gaming but is it enough to warrant a $1000.00 investment or more? For me personally, 5-8 frames wasn't enough to warrant that type of investment. Multiple members advised me not to do it. It was hard but I'm truly glad I listened. My current hardware still performs extremely well with 99% of games out there. The advice was given to me after the release of Alder Lake and I've watched tons of videos and benchmarks from our very own members. Thanks guys.

    In regards to the 7950x from a 4k gaming perspective, I'm a tad disappointed. Of course I know the GPU is the main component to drives frames but I was expecting a little more push from the latest CPU's. You guys told me not to expect leaps and bounds. I listened but still feel a little meh from the 4k gaming results. The AMD 7000 series are absolutely amazing, outstanding and phenomenal for content creation and business. Maybe we will see a game engine that will benefit from more cores and threads in the future?

    I've already purchased a new case, PSU, m.2 drives and peripherals. I made this move because I'm getting a 4090. My current case is too small and almost EVERYTHING is proprietary with Alienware. I now have to make a decision between the Intel and AMD motherboard/CPU. I'm going to pickup my new RAM from Microcenter today. I could also pickup the 7950x and mobo today too.

    I'm kinda torn. Anyways, thanks guys.
     
  10. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    Just wait on the 3D V-cache chips that should come out early next year, that's what i'm going to do. They are more for the gamer in us all. I have no issue with how AMD have priced these new Processors, but the extreme cost of the AM5 X670 and X670e motherboards is crazy. And then when you throw in the high cost of DDR5 and then a descent AIO...
     

  11. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    Hi @Maddness,

    Thanks man. I've read alot about the 3d V-cache chips from you guys and online. Looking at the results of the 5800X3D, I know the future X3D chips are going to be awesome! I just have a major dilemma. I'm getting the 4090 on October 12th. Honestly Bro, I don't think I'll be able to sit on the 4090 for that long. I'm very happy with my 3090 but gains of the 4090 has me very excited.

    This is tough fellow Guru.
     
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  12. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    i agree with @TheDigitalJedi, for me cost isnt an issue, this is my hobby after all but its the general lack of uplift in gaming i think il see.
    Yes my primary game (DCS from Eagle Dynamics) loves CPU power and my 3800x is being pushed to 100% during missions with many AI unit, i think id be better off getting a 5800x3d and another 32gb of RAM.
     
  13. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    Hi @pegasus1,

    I hear ya. I can totally understand your thought process because I would do the same. The 5800X3D performs just as good or better than the 12900k in some games. I'm in a situation with my system because it is practically un-upgradable. My current processor is the 10900k and I have 64gb of DDR4 3600 ram. There is hardly a difference between the 10900k and the 11900k on a Z490 motherboard. My 3090 is a custom design to fit this case so a normal sized card wouldn't fit. My Motherboard can't even fit in another case because the mainboard and IO is all one cantankerous wafer. I have no choice but to buy all new components for my next upgrade.

    The 5800XD is a monster CPU for gaming. 64gb of RAM just keeps things butter smooth. Are you sticking with your 6900XT?
     
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  14. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    I am nearly in the same camp as you and my target is 4K OLED as well and need a good GPU with low frametimes because there is no way we will be guranteed 100% of the time 60+ FPS at 4K with RTRT for example.

    If you can wait for the 7x00X3D I would wait. Otherwise, you might get a 7600X and then the 7x00X3D as an upgrade.

    Remember to NOT go too cheap on the MB. The MB must be certified for high speed DDR5. The low end boards might not be able to keep up with fast DDR5 later.

    Or get yourself a 5800X3D with fast DDR4. It will still hold its value until the 7x00X3D comes out.

    Or a 12400F or 12600K ADL system with DDR4 and pass that onto someone else or sell it when 7x00X3D comes out. It would not be too expensive and can do 4K OK.
     
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  15. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Il stick with it until i see what AMD has going with the 7900xt, i want to use this current rig as a dedicated video editing machine but also a secondary gaming rig for a bit of team play if a mate drops round, hence why i was initially going to replace my current set up with a new CPU/MOBO/RAM etc.
    I might just hang on for the 7800x3d and see how the 7900xt performs, just got a PS5 so balls deep in GT7 at the moment ha ha ha
     
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  16. Truder

    Truder Ancient Guru

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    Well, looks like my prediction came true about heat for this generation... and someone said I was speaking nonsense before....
     
  17. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Im not sure heat or power draw is the main driver for decisions, most hardcore peeps use H20 anyways, its just that the new 7**** off little to no uplift over a current gen 5800x3d.
    Why invest in a new MOBOI/RAM and CPU/WC Block (£1500 - £2000) if you end up with the same or possibly lesser performance than you can get from current 5800x3d (£450)
     
  18. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    Hi @Valken,

    4k gaming on OLED is phenomenal. You will absolutely love it. I've gamed on the LGC8, C9, CX, C1 and now the Samsung S95B. No regrets whatsoever.

    There are few games that give my system a challenge at 4k max settings. Cyberpunk, Icarus and Sword and Fairy 7 are tough to run with max Raytacing/settings. I wonder about Unreal Engine 5. I've read Metro Exodus is tough maxed out also. I'm looking forward to the 4090.

    You made an awesome argument regarding the AMD platform. 5800XD for now and a 7X00XD for later? More to ponder fellow Guru.
     
  19. Embra

    Embra Ancient Guru

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    I look at the 7950x as being totally a productivity chip.. It's a monster at that.
    The 7900x would be a better choice for gaming $$wise.

    If your totally a gamer.. I would wait for the 3D Vchips.

    Intel's could be interesting too, but they are due early next year, and they will be just as "hot", if not more.
     
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  20. Truder

    Truder Ancient Guru

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    AMD Ryzen 7000 processor announcements (preview)

    This was my prediction and from what I read before, Zen 4 was really Zen3 design ported to the new node with the only real changes made to the core config was increased cache and AVX512, even then, the AVX512 implementation is double pumped https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-zen4-avx512 (just like when AVX2 was first introduced on AMD) so it's not a fast implementation of it.

    The rest of the Zen4 design is the new "northbridge" the IOD, new memory subsystem, integrated graphics etc

    I actually see Zen4 much like Zen2 - AMD getting familiar with the new node using a familiar design and throwing power at it whilst setting up a new environment ready for their real next gen update Zen4X3D and/or Zen5
     

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