The truth about PRE-RENDERING 0?

I noticed the framerate often tends to settle at N>1 integer multiples of the resfresh rate (like 120fps for 60Hz) with FastSyns but it's far from consistent. I think it's more complicated math (where the main priority is achieving the highest possible framerate and/or GPU-utilization while still hugging the multiples of the refresh rate if it's in close range, probably by interpolating the expected frametime/utilization from the past (few) frame(s)). The problem is FastSync is best for framerate<refreshrate (it's virtually the same as tripple-buffer Vsync in smoothness) or framerate>refresh*2 and worst in between the two (which looks a lot like regular vsync in the 0.5x - 1.0x range: lots of visible stutters). But FastSync + RTSS limiter set to the refresh rate (or -0.01 to make it easy to switch between Fast and regular Vsync) usually work great together in sane games (very minimal amounts of frame drops/repeats but low perceived lag).

 

Hey RealNC.

1) Cool, I'll stick with vsync in-game unless I notice horrible frametimes.

2) I've tried 3 different browsers using 2 diff vsync tests on each one. All of them report either 60.001 or 60.002 Hz. I then opened up CRU, and this is what I got. I will say that while my PCs and laptops usually report 59.994 Hz or something, all of my messages/posts referred to using my 4K Samsung TV.




3) Gotcha. I guess what I really meant to say was "If I dip below 60 fps even once, will this break anything".

 

When the rendering pipeline comes back from sleep to render another frame, that frame is added at the bottom of the queue. So by the time that frame makes it to the screen, it has aged a lot. That's where input lag comes from.

A frame limiter results in the frame being placed at the front of the queue, which is why input lag is reduced.

Nope. Pre-rendered frames are something different. TB means you can have up to 3 fully rendered frames. Pre-rendered frames are not fully rendered.

You mean why FPS isn't halved in some games even though they use double buffer vsync? Not sure. Could be because something is forcing triple buffer, or it could be because the API (DX, GL, whatever) is multi-threaded and in some games, depending on how their rendering pipeline was developed, the game is allowed to continue setting up rendering data even though both buffers of the double buffer queue are full. The only reason you get FPS halving with DB vsync is because the game is prevented from starting work on the next frame when the current frame missed the vsync deadline and both buffers are in use. But if the game is allowed to start work on the next frame regardless, then there's no FPS halving. But for that to happen, you need either triple buffer, or some form of asynchronous frame presentation queue, where the game is allowed to start work on a pre-rendered frame.

I don't think OpenGL does that one. Triple buffer in OpenGL is just your normal third frame in a buffer queue, just like DirectX.

I only noticed microstuttering, and the frames were uncapped though...

Yeah. It's what I said

Yes. If DWM is active, you will always get 1 additional frame of latency. Unless you use windowed mode g-sync, which for some reason seems to have no added latency at all. Unless something changed in recent W10 versions. Nobody knows what exactly NVidia is doing to DWM in that mode, but a while back, jorimt on blur busters did input lag tests in windowed mode g-sync with DWM active, and that 1 frame of latency that's normally there wasn't actually there. But to be sure, it's always best to use a mode where DWM is disabled, be it "redirected windowed fullscreen" or true "exclusive fullscreen."

 

Just curious, the Blur Busters guide specifically cites "VSYNC ON." Is that referring to the nVidia control panel setting? I've noticed that doesn't work very well with some games. Is using in-game vsync a bad idea in conjunction with RTSS frame limiter?

 

It doesn't matter.

 

how to enter the decimal in rtss? , or . is not working

I need to enter this : 143.976

Thanks !

 

It works here just fine. What RTSS version are you using?

 

7.2.2

 

Well, I don't know. Maybe it works correctly with your keyboard language. Try switching to US English. Or try the numpad "." key too.

 

I have the US layout and the numeric block "." key doesn't work for some reason. Only the "." key above right alt on main part of the keyboard.

 

it work thanks but I can only put 6 numbers like 143.97

 

yeah you cant do more than 2 decimals in the interface of RTSS, must be done via the text file/profile cfg for the game in RTSS folder, also needs the correct denominator (amount of decimals)

add and edit this to your game config with notepad (or global config but I recommend separate game config) in the RTSS /Profiles folder:

[Framerate]
Limit=143976
LimitDenominator=1000




the [Framerate] section should already be there so just add/modify limit and limitdenominator values there,


Its been very long time since I did this might be wrong on the denominator value, but pretty sure this will work, also RTSS will display the correct value with full decimals when doing this, but still wont allow you to edit the decimals in interface, always must open the config file with texteditor/notepad and then reload the config in RTSS if you edit limit values like this,


this is how I got my games to play on 119.994 hz for some testing in some games

 

https://prnt.sc/n88r2u

Finally good to go ? xD
So if I understood everything right. no more screen tearing and reducing input lag when vsynch on. right?

thanks

 

yes looks good to me, 0.1 fps below true refreshrate for low lag vsync on trick

PS I still recommend making separate game profile for games and edit the game profile in RTSS/Profiles game-by-game instead of global profile, but that is just me ! if it works fine for you with global then its all OK

 

I'm taking note !
I will test with Apex Legend because I really have hard time with this fast paced game.
I will come back with a feedback.

Thanks again !

 

You don't need to edit the profile files. 2 decimal digit FPS accuracy is good enough. The "-0.01" FPS cap value is just a ballpark figure. It's OK if the cap ends up being -0.016 or -0.02. Anything between -0.01 and -0.02 is fine.

 

no problem! but do you have stable 144 fps all the time in apex? maybe vsync on not best idea if unstable fps, but you can test in fast shooter/first person games I think is best with:

(not ranked in special order just a list)

A) vsync off and 144 fps limit on 144 hz monitor
B) vsync off and unlimited framerate (maybe 144 is max framerate in apex I dont know?)
C) vsync off + ULMB on + 144 fps limit on 144 hz monitor (if you have ULMB or other blur reduction/strobing method on monitor like lightboost / benq blur reduction / benq DyAc, asus ELMB etc)

D) gsync/freesync on and limit framerate to -3 fps below refreshrate, example 141 fps on 144 hz monitor to keep gsync/freesync active 100% of time

But I guess you dont have gsync/freesync monitor thats why you test low lag vsync on trick?

For me personally in fortnite, I get best results with option C, but im also not sensitive to tearing but very sensitive to input lag and motion blur

PS. Also RealNC is correct (he is expert btw) it doesnt have to be *exactly* true refreshrate minus 0.1 fps for low lag vsync on trick, many people use for example 143 fps @ 144 hz etc,

anything from -0.1 to -1.0 fps below true refreshrate is recommended from what I know, difference will be in how stutter appears, not in input lag,

143.000 fps or 143.976 fps on 143.986 hz monitor, for example is same input lag as far as I know, only difference is in how periodic stutter will manifest itself, (long time between more noticeable stutter or less time between less noticeable stutter)

also max prerendered frames = 1 is recommended in graphics card driver when doing this, or always for games IMO for least input lag, many games already have this by default though but yeah, to be on safe side can set it if not already set I guess,



Good luck anyway!

 

So it's recommended that I "disable fullscreen optimizations" in W10 all the time ? I use GSYNC ON Fullscreen on a Freesync monitor with an 1070GTX.

So to my understanding I get real "exclusive fullscreen mode" for my games by turning this feature off ?

I mean I don't care about W10 OSD stuff and the speed of ALT+TAB I just want my games to run the best they can (with no additional lag or anything caused by W10 config).

 

Benchmark your game, but for me I got higher fps (min + max + avg) when I turned it off.

 

How do I turn it off completely in latest W10 version ? I don't have the option anymore to turn off via "Settings" app.

Thank you !

P.S. is it disabled ?!

https://i.**********/rmnS0tbg/disabled.png