Nvidia CEO: Radeon VII is lousy and nothing new

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    If Nvidia alone dominates it will stagnate the market just like CPUs have been for quite some time. Once Ryzen came out Intel had to put in more effort, more cores etc so much so that they did some rush jobs. Unfortunately to create Ryzen AMD had to move manpower away from the GPU department to the CPU department but that might really well pay off in the end, heck even I got myself a Ryzen CPU now after years of Intel.

    The sad part is that AMD does not have the proper resources to create as they at one time could, which makes this just a refresh and thus not so interesting. I don't think they would foresee Raytracing either, I certainly didn't and of course I'm excited about the whole thing but it's also way too early to jump on the bandwagon. We need both companies doing this and hopefully not with their own methods which will harm the market and may even perhaps kill the technology for quite some time. Look into tessellation, AMD introduced it early on but others did not really do it at all....it died. Creative's EAX was terrific, but other brands were not given the same technology and just emulated...the technology died and hardware acceleration died with it and sound-effects in different rooms is quite rare now. PhysX didn't become as big as it should have been either, and Nvidia refuses to go with adaptive sync even though this might come to TVs quite soon.
     
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  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Guest

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    Take raytracing in movies. Those are today greenscreen/motion capture and full raytracing of fully virtual scene.

    Play this in 480p. When games can do full raytracing of every pixel at least on 480p and match this image quality, raytracing will be ready for use.

    Edit: Why? Because raytracing is not about delivering accurate reflection of object which itself looks poor to start with.
    Raytracing is about delivering photorealistic physically based images.
     
  3. Serotonin

    Serotonin Ancient Guru

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    When Ray Tracing becomes meaningful, I'll reevaluate such an unprofessional, unnecessary comment. Until then, AMD could have just as easily criticized nvidia for charging so much, for a gpu touting unavailable features @ launch (RT), only one game supporting the feature as I type this, and a second feature (dlss) already proven to be lower IQ.

    Nvidia must be getting full of themselves with all those big money deals having their chips in consoles...oh wait, that's not them.

    AMD has more reason to take the low road and doesn't. Nvidia needs a calendar from 2002 on the desks of all these cocky CEO's to stay humble.
     
  4. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    but it takes neither to deduce its a 1080/1080ti launch that's where the nothing new comment comes from I guess as for it being "lousy" who knows ?
    all I know its not 379usd
     

  5. snight01

    snight01 Master Guru

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    AMD drivers completely SUCK! no matter how good the card is, the drivers will always be horrible. Not talking from any bad vibes, or ill intent here, just FACTS! ... i've owned gpu's from them in the past and these rocked alot of vram, speed and all that bells and whistles. The drivers were horrible, couldnt even play diablo 3 or max payne 3 properly FFS! Went the less powerful nvidia card with not much vram and guessed what.. it worked perfectly!! no glitches.

    If amd can fix those damn drivers like people has been asking for decades maybe it'll be alright.
     
  6. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    AMD drivers in the past 2-3 years have been significantly improved and i'd argue are now on par with Nvidia stability/bug wise. I'd also argue that their interface is just flat out better than what Nvidia is doing.

    To all the people going to quote this and go "OH MY GOD THE NVCP IS PERFECT, PERFECT LAYOUT, NOW FLUFF, SO GREAT, LOVE IT" you're wrong. It's a bad interface, it's garbage on touchscreens (which nvidia puts its products in) it's slow as hell despite after every driver release people saying "THE CLICK LAG IS GONE!!11!" geforce experience is garbage and the fact that the two are separate apps and one requires login is embarrassing.
     
  7. snight01

    snight01 Master Guru

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    never used or installed geforce experience really but sometimes to see game optimizations, either way, we need amd for nvidia to get better tho. AND ... i only use the nvidia control pantel to put on max performance and sometimes vsync on.

    I doubt that, with the drivers mention.. i've been hearing that for a long time now. everytime i give them a try its terrible. but we'll see how this works out...
     
  8. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    A few random thoughts regarding the Radeon VII and Jensen:

    I was glad to see that AMD FINALLY ditched the radial-fan, blower-style cooler that has cursed every reference card they've launched since end of WW II. True, they may have had no real choice but to do so this time around, but thank heavens anyway. (Question: so what is an AIB-partner going to offer to differentiate it's products?)

    Sort of related to the above, I am once again puzzled at any criticism, at this late date, levied against GCN's well-established reputation regarding power. To me, this is like someone growing up in the Pacific Northwest of the USA and being gobsmacked to look out the window and see that it is raining. Let the expectations of a green GCN go, people; it ain't gonna happen.

    AnandTech is reporting 128 ROPs for Vega VII; that doesn't seem at all right to me. I thought 64 was all that was possible, and 64 was what was claimed for the Instinct MI60. Probably just CES burnout.

    I see the VII as simply a re-purposed Instinct card; re-clocked and re-packaged with an appropriate cooling solution. There wasn't likely any time or money in the budget to re-mix these into an 8Gb version, and then sell them at a lower price-point. (I'm not at all sure one can simply fuse-off defective HBM stacks.) Clearly, there will be those who can truly leverage 16Gb of VRAM, but I don't see them as being your typical, average gamer. I don't find either the Radeon VII, or the RTX 2080 as being a good value. Historically, nothing in a gaming system is more likely to be shown the door after awhile than the video card. $700 USD is way past my tolerance level given that reality. However, price aside, they may well be terrific graphic cards otherwise.

    The charge that Vega VII, or any other GPU, is a poor choice due to being old technology never makes any sense to me. Ultimately, you're buying a level of performance, not a slab of silicon with this-or-that name. Personally, I don't care if they hang a steam engine on a card if it does what I want it to do, at a price I'm prepared to pay.

    I'm not sure which is more surprising; Jensen's comments or the publicity they're receiving. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to throw a bit of shade on your competitor's products. But, one should choose your words carefully, if only due to the attention they receive, as we're witnessing here. I don't know the mood or tone that Jensen used, but it was on the snarky side of the ledger. I'd be curious to discover just how well the RTX 2080 is actually selling.

    A few people have mentioned AMD having some shabby marketing-related moments and mentioned Roy Taylor. Once again, this is my own speculation, but I think the less-than-classy public-relations reputation AMD had at times in the past is probably among the reasons Roy Taylor isn't an AMD employee any longer.
     
  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Idk there is over like 35+ games announced for DLSS.. granted none of them are here yet (aside from FF) but that's a fair number of titles for a new technology limited to expensive cards.
     
  10. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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    For sure there are some coming, but looking at the list critically, there's not really many big titles.
    Also Digital Foundry was not super impressed with the visual quality of it, but more with the framerate from what I remember. So we might not even see widespread enabling by the end-users, depending on preference.

    Either way, 5 years from now both these technologies could have matured into something amazing, who knows.
     

  11. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Omg denial is that really you? xD

    I thought I would never hear anything like that from you, nothing personal, but lately you've always nvidia this, nvidia that, chip this, chip that, top, top, perfection :D

    And I agree amd driver came a long way. While nv stuck in prehistoric, thank God we have that nvinspector
     
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  12. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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  13. pharma

    pharma Ancient Guru

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    Actually Digital's Foundry latest analysis using the RTX 2060 is pretty impressive. I'd expect this to further impact adoption of the new tech by the gaming community.
     
  14. GlennB

    GlennB Master Guru

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    The first iteration of raytracing in BF5 had poor performance on a 2080 TI even on 1080P (dipping below 60). After DICE and NVIDIA implemented variable RT performance got a lot better. It now priorotizes RT on places where it benefits the most and downgrades on all other areas. So as of now there no full raytracing in BF5 and i doubt it will be there in the coming year since there are no shortcuts to raytracing.

    https://gpuopen.com/gaming-product/radeon-rays/
    Also raytracting comes with DirectX in the form of DXR, we will have to wait for games to be released using it to compare performance. The Titan V has no problems doing raytracing since it comes with a ton of compute power and AMD also has a decent amount of it so performance should be ok. AMD doet state how much Mrays it does but so does NVIDIA and both numbers don't actually say anything. What we do know that if you use raytracing using compute it will take a performance hit, so far we only have the example of the Titan V that has no problems doing RT, a card that has a focus point for professionals not for gaming.

    The thing is that card B ( 2080 )got sub 60 FPS in raytracing in BF5 on 1440P. Yes it now does 60 in 1080 but who the hell buys a 2080 to play on 1080P where you are CPU bound most of the times anyways.

    Raytracing was already possible back in 2009 where Intel tested it on Quake 2 and later on Quake 3 and Quake 4 engines. The main problem has always been performance and it's the same problem we still have today. Right now you need a Titan V to get smooth gameplay, a card that costs 3200 dollar as of now.
     
  15. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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    That's pretty good, happy to see people can get some use of it even with the 2060.
    We'll just have to wait and see. Frostbite is pretty efficient so it'll be interesting to see how other engines cope with it.
     

  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    VII was one of Rayfields ideas' it shouldn't have happened.
     
  17. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    I kind of think they didn't have a choice. Navi isn't quite ready yet.
     
  18. Killian38

    Killian38 Guest

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    Heh just saw him talking about this. That CEO is very scared. It was either full on lies or half lies. Why does he play us all for fools? I bet he hasn't even used a RTX card.
     
  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    just don't release a product, its that simple.

    the card costs $750 to make, they aren't getting much profit of them.
     
  20. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    Where did you see that. I doubt very much that it is true.
     

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