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The RTX 2080Ti Thread

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by Netherwind, Aug 20, 2018.

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anxious_f0x Ancient Guru

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alanm said: ↑

You may be in for a rough time taking it apart.

Click to expand...

Removing the pcb from the cooler is as easy as ever, so fitting waterblocks will be fine.

But yeah, anyone attempting to clean out that cooler or replace the fans is going to be in for some fun.

anxious_f0x, Sep 18, 2018

#661
JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/9g0ppv/interesting_new_features_on_the_turing/

Interesting new features on the Turing Architecture. (From Whitepaper)

From: https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/...ure/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf

Im a game developer with an special interest on graphics and technology, and these are the features that i found specially interesting from the Turing whitepaper that nvidia has released. This features are all experimental stuff thats done through extensions, and that basically no one supports yet. They are super interesting features that people are forgetting to talk about. Im not going to talk about the raytracing part and the AI part becouse thats been talked to death, but about other features that seem to go ignored or barely talked about.

New SM architecture. Mostly some incremental architecture improvements, and it adds the tensor and ray cores. The main interesting feature it has is that it can launch integer and floating point instructions at the "same" time, with the improved scheduler (Its not really at the same time, but it can launch the integer instructions before the floating point instructions have finished, allowing more internal parallelism). Page 11

Tensor Cores: Matrix Multiply-Add cores on the SMs, They are used for AI, other people have talked more about them. The Turing ones are a improvement over the ones in the last architecture, so they have better performance (significantly better if you go low precision). Tensor operations can run "at the same time" as normal math operations. Page 15.

Ray cores: They have 2 parts. One accelerates BVH traversal, and the other does ray->triangle intersection tests. The ray calculations can also run at the same time as the normal shading calculations. The BVH part could be used for physics calculations, not only rays (in theory). Becouse you need to use them from a compute shader, i dont see a lot of use of them for AI purposes (in AI you usually just have a few rays for visibility checks). But nvidia comments that they could be used for audio. Page 26

Memory improvements: They have improved the way the memory flows inside the chip. Better caching, better compression, and a lot of related things. Basically makes the memory perform a bit better than it should perform by its "raw" numbers. Page 20

Mesh shading: This is a huge deal. A bit like the "primitive shaders" from AMD vega architecture (wich no one has ever used), but with considerable extra features. They allow for more programmability from the GPU. The use case nvidia gives is that a game could throw an entire level into GPU memory, and then the GPU deals with all the rendering of it. Essentially gives you "unlimited" drawcalls, and extremelly efficient culling. With this thing you can render an entire game map in a efficient way without the CPU doing anything other than the basic gameplay logic. Becouse now AMD and Nvidia support something slightly similar, we might see this becoming a generic feature. In theory, if games use this feature, you would be able to render incredibly complex game maps with a garbage CPU without losing framerate becouse the CPU is no longer doing the bulk of the rendering logic. Page 40

Variable Rate shading: This is also a huge feature, but its biggest use is for VR. It allows the developer to change the "resolution" of parts of the screen at will. The fun part is that the internal images are unchanged, so its not only extremelly easy to implement, but it could be done as a driver level toggle. With this, nvidia could make VR games automatically render at a lower resolution on the edges of the screen, giving you beetween 20% and 40% extra performance without quality loss. For every single VR game currently in the market, without the developer doing anything. Im not completely sure nvidia will actually do that, but given how the technique works, its definitely possible. If not, its still basically a "toggle" a developer could add with barely any code. Looking at the feature, it seems i could implement it for my VR games in barely a day. Page 43

Multiview Rendering: Essentially an improvement over the "single pass stereo" feature in the 1000 series. It allows a single drawcall to render in multiple cameras at once. Mostly for VR, but it can be used to speed up shadow rendering significantly. I dont see this feature getting much use outside of VR games. Page 51

Texture space shading. It allows you to save the lighting on the objects textures at runtime, automatically. This allows things like ultra-expensive shaders getting calculated once and then reused for multiple frames. I see the most use of this for things like terrain. You would have fancy procedural shaders with 30 textures, and then it just gets baked into the "final" display texture, and the game just keeps reusing that texture every time. Its not a easy feature to implement, but its very useful for VR as it can remove sparkles on shiny objects and make the rendering cost at super-high-resultion a LOT cheaper. The technique only has to calculate the texels that you can see, and can update the new texels where it doesnt have texture data. John Carmack about Texture space shading for VRPage 48

Some of those features are incredible, and can really change how game engines work. Mesh shaders are extremelly interesting, but im not sure developers will use it a lot due to how much the game engines would need to get changed (moving the rendering code from the CPU into the GPU). The variable shading will make the new cards extremelly efficient for VR, and ready for foveated rendering at the driver level, without the developer doing barely anything. Texture space shading can also allow some very interesting optimizations that could make a game many times faster if implemented correctly (at the cost of considerable extra texture memory from the caching).
Click to expand...

That made it a bit easier to understand some of these new features, sounds good!

EDIT: Hmm multiview rendering sounds like it could really do a excellent job with something like the Pimax 5k/8k VR kit keeping performance high by scaling down the resolution near the edges of the viewing area of the display, interesting.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pimax-8k-200°-fov-vr-kickstarter-completed-4-2-million-total-funding-all-stretch-goals-reached.1108/

EDIT: More details about mesh shading via a dev blog entry.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/nv...aphics-pipeline-replacing-old-vs-ts-gs.69020/

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/introduction-turing-mesh-shaders/
Last edited: Sep 18, 2018

JonasBeckman, Sep 18, 2018

#662
Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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cryohellinc said: ↑

Cleaning, maintenance, broken fan replacement? It's user-unfriendly by design.
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Not when that voids the warranty, generally.

You are not going to find replacement fans on the market with that design.
I can tell you that fan design will far outweigh the cards lifetime.

Besides the most important thing you mentioned is cleaning, which is easily done without taking it all apart entirely.

I agree it's unnecessary complicated, it's just not necessary to completely take it apart due to aforementioned reasons.

Agent-A01, Sep 18, 2018

#663
JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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The warranty void sticker and losing warranty from taking apart the GPU doesn't hold up in the US does it? You have to be able to prove that was what broke the card so you are free to take it apart without risk as long as this doesn't damage anything in the process. EU well it's probably case by case but I think it's a bigger deal here.

EDIT: Though if you have to 400f heat gun the cooler due to that glue keeping it together you'd better know what you're doing if it takes that much work to open it up and in general compressed air and a small swap or similar would probably get most of the dust particles out though the heatsink might be hard to fully clean out without taking apart the cooler. (And the 70 some screws, that's going to be fun.)

JonasBeckman, Sep 18, 2018

#664
pharma Ancient Guru

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pharma, Sep 18, 2018

#665

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Jeparisoe Guest

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Ooo, pretty!

Really looking forward to having my MSI 2080 Trio soon!

Jeparisoe, Sep 18, 2018

#666
LuckyNumber8 Guest

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GTX 2080 reviews wasn't supposed to be out by now?

LuckyNumber8, Sep 18, 2018

#667
Jeparisoe Guest

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They changed it to the 19th.

Jeparisoe, Sep 18, 2018

#668

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tensai28 Ancient Guru

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pharma said: ↑

Click to expand...

Looks worse with rtx on for some reason (in my opinion at least).

tensai28, Sep 18, 2018

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pharma Ancient Guru

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It did to me as well, though possibly because this is a RTX "global Illumination" example. I think the only other example we have seen was the Enlisted demo.

pharma, Sep 18, 2018

#670
pharma Ancient Guru

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Digital Foundry's take on Metro's RTX
September 18, 2018
Join Alex and John for a detailed discussion of Metro Exodus, focusing on the game's beautiful ray tracing implementation! It's early in development with lots of optimisation to go, but still looking beautiful.

pharma, Sep 18, 2018

#671
Maddness Ancient Guru

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Ray Tracing is the shiz. I can't wait for AMD to get on board.

Maddness, Sep 18, 2018

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Folken Member

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pharma said: ↑

Some more speculation below till the the reviews come out.

Click to expand...

Program to make video edits ?

Folken, Sep 18, 2018

#673
millibyte Maha Guru

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Raytracing will be interesting to me when it runs at 60+ fps at 1440p on a midrange card. OTOH, it does please the jackass in me knowing that the first adopters (2070, 2080, and 2080ti owners) will be too busy agonizing over whether to play games with RTX on or off to really enjoy their overpriced purchase.

millibyte, Sep 19, 2018

#674
pharma Ancient Guru

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Interesting read from UnWinder

Dear forum visitors,
I shared my impressions about NVIDIA Scanner technology from software developers’s point of view. Now I’d like to post the impressions from end user and overclocker POV.

I was never a real fan of automated overclocking because the reliability was always the weakest spot of overclocking process automation. NVIDIA Scanner is not a revolution like many newsmakers are calling it simply because different forms of automatic overclocking already existed in both NVIDIA and AMD drivers for couple decades, if not more (for example NVIDIA had it inside since CoolBits era, AMD had it in Overdrive). However, it was more like a toy and marketing thing, ignored by serious overclockers because everybody used to the fact that traditionally it crashed much more than it actually worked. Different third party tools also tried to implement their own solutions for automating the process of overclocking (the best of them is excellent ATITool by my old good friend w1zzard), but reliability of result was also the key problem.

So I was skeptical about new NVIDIA Scanner too and had serious doubts on including it into MSI Afterburner. However, I changed my mind after trying it in action on my own system with MSI RTX 2080 Ventus card. Yes, it is not a revolution but it is an evolution of this technology for sure. During approximately 2 weeks of development, I run a few hundreds of automatic overclocking detection sessions. None of them resulted in a system crash during overclocking detection. None of them resulted in wrongly detecting abnormally high clocks as stable ones. The worst thing I could observe during automatic overclocking detection was GPU hang recovered during scanning process, and the scanner was always able to continue scanning after recovering GPU at software level and lower the clocks until finding stable result. In all cases it detected repeatable approximately +170MHz GPU overclocking of my system, resulting in GPU clock floating in 2050-2100MHz range during 3D applications runtime after applying such overclocking. Even for the worst case (i.e. potential system crash during overclocking detection) Scanner API contains the recovery mechanisms, meaning that you may simply click “Scan” one more time after rebooting the system and it will continue scanning from the point before crash. But I simply couldn’t even make it crash to test such case and emulated it by killing OC scanner process during automatic overclocking detection.

So embedded NVIDIA workload and test algorithms used inside the Scanner API look really promising for me. And it will be interesting to read impressions of the rest overclockers and RTX 2080 card owners who try NVIDIA Scanner in action in nearest days/weeks.
Click to expand...

RTSS 6.7.0 beta 1

Last edited: Sep 19, 2018

pharma, Sep 19, 2018

#675

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Maddness Ancient Guru

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Interesting read. Thanks for posting. I didn't even know about this feature.

Maddness, Sep 19, 2018

#676
Smiley_ie Guest

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Technically its very impressive but Metro Exodus RTX Ray Tracing in place's it looks like a rehade mod.

Last edited: Sep 19, 2018

Smiley_ie, Sep 19, 2018

#677
pharma Ancient Guru

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It's far from done. Many more optimizations will be made before you see the completed product.
Edit: Also you need to know what to be looking for if they are focusing on a specific graphics effect, not the entire scene.

pharma, Sep 19, 2018

#678
Mufflore Ancient Guru

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Smiley_ie said: ↑

Technically its very impressive but Metro Exodus RTX Ray Tracingin in place's it looks like a rehade mod.
Click to expand...

Shazbat
Or did you mistype?

Mufflore, Sep 19, 2018

#679

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tensai28 Ancient Guru

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Ray tracing is great but I'm not willing to play my games in 1080p just for that. I'm more interested in the 2080ti for it's improved performance in 4k. I'm just going to treat Ray tracing as a new tech and leave it disabled until we get to the point of 4k ray tracing.

tensai28, Sep 19, 2018

#680

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