High End Audiophile thread

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by ROBSCIX, Jan 2, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Andrew LB

    Andrew LB Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    232
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080@2,025
    As someone who owns both the HD580 and HD6xx i beg to differ. The HD6xx needs considerably more power than the HD580 and when under-amped, it's most noticeable in low frequencies. For some reason the 300ohm power output of your O2 amplifier isn't listed on the manufacturers site, but we can get a general idea of where its at by looking at other power ratings.

    Max Output (33 Ohms) 613 mW
    Max Output (150 Ohms) 355 mW
    Max Output (600 Ohms) 88 mW

    Seems almost linear, which would put 300Ohm at somewhere around (Edit) 170-180 mW

    I can't find much data on the power output of the AE-5 aside from a test that showed 216 mW @ 100 ohm. I'd guess at 300 ohm it would be 90-100 mW.

    For comparison's sake, here is the power output of my Schiit Magni 3:

    Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
    Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
    Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
    Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
    Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel

    Another amp have is an Antique Sound Lab MG Head OTL Tube amp. in low impedance setting, it puts out 120 mW @ 600ohm.

    Lastly, my Little Dot MKIII tube amp (Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi + Mullard 8100) has the following:

    2.5 W (32 Ω impedance)
    1.8 W (120 Ω impedance)
    800 mW (300 Ω impedance)


    I honestly think you need more power for those HD6xx cans. When switching between my Schiit Magni 3 and the MKIII, the low end bass difference is clearly noticeable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  2. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,691
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    How do the 2 sets of cans compare for you?
     
  3. Archvile82

    Archvile82 Master Guru

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    334
    GPU:
    ROG STRIX 4090 OC
    Some nice kit being shown off in this thread.

    Just a quick question, is there a site that's dedicated to selling albums at high bit rate or in flac format ?

    Thanks
     
  4. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,691
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme

  5. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,851
    Likes Received:
    6,741
    GPU:
    TiTan RTX Ampere UV
  6. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,851
    Likes Received:
    6,741
    GPU:
    TiTan RTX Ampere UV
    Look & Dream :rolleyes:

     
  7. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,599
    Likes Received:
    386
    GPU:
    GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
    Naah, there's nothing wrong with the bass. The hard fact is that HD 58X has noticeably better bass extension. It's somewhat similar difference than the difference in in upper mids. Thus makes it even more obvious (because HD 58X has more recessed upper mids or more like less boosted upper mids). For that reason the HD 58X's treble sound more prominent too (although the speed advantage helps too, and it does sound sharper). HD 58X is faster across the board and the bass is tighter. Also O2 was designed to be able to drive HD 6XX's just fine.

    The moment we start talking about tube amps takes the whole conversation in another direction because those will colour the sound. They will distort the sound and they will not be as clean. You don't need a nuclear power to drive HD 6XX (especially at sane volume levels - also I'm really sensitive to loud voices so I listen everything at low levels). There are much more meaningful values than pure power output. Noise, crosstalk and dynamic range are much more important to me because most half-decent amps can output enough power for dynamic driver headphones. (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html) Also if the Little Dot MKIII has noticeably higher than 20 ohm headphone out impedance, then it's a pretty poor match for HD 58X.

    You are talking about HD 58X and not HD 580 (they don't have anything in common)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    sverek and Mufflore like this.
  8. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,851
    Likes Received:
    6,741
    GPU:
    TiTan RTX Ampere UV
    Vox Olympian & Vox Elysian

    Sound:

    The immediate impression on hearing the Olympians is that the musical presentation is majestic, effortless and of a sheer scale of sound I for one hadn’t experienced before. At the same time however and almost magically they are capable of a whispered delicacy, nuance and intimacy. One also notices they resolve what seems like an order of magnitude more than anything else - certainly than I‘ve ever experienced. Anyone who has played with horn drivers even minimally knows full well how promising they can be yet how ultimately frustrating. They offer Everests of promise but the difficulties of building transparent crossovers and getting the textures and colors and speed of the drivers to integrate are hard to surmount. People spend a lottery fortune on exotic Japanese pressure drivers and put them in dedicated rooms and the result can sound like listening to four different systems fighting each other. Most complex horn systems I’ve listened to had a number of problems. Yes they resolved a lot but so many had further issues of speed integration between the subwoofers, woofers and the rest of the spectrum. So as much as part of the sound can be beguiling, I personally have heard very few I could live with or commit to. It’s a bit like looking at the same picture through different sets of magnifying glasses and never getting a good overall take that makes sense.

    -> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/livingvoice6/1.html
    -> http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourlivingvoice/1.html

    Just Pure Sound at it's finest :D
     
  9. sverek

    sverek Guest

    Messages:
    6,069
    Likes Received:
    2,975
    GPU:
    NOVIDIA -0.5GB
    @Anarion, if HD58X and HD6XX cost the same, which would you pick? (Consider you don't have standalone quality DAC/AMP and have to buy it as well if needed).
     
  10. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,599
    Likes Received:
    386
    GPU:
    GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
    HD 58X. It sounds nice, tight and fast even through a smartphone. HD 6XX sound quite nice too through the phone but the bass can be a bit sloppy. Sensitivity wise there's almost zero difference between HD 58X and HD 595 for example in practice. The 150 ohm means that it's not quite as picky headphone out output impedance.

    Also another thing that could affect the choice: If you want soft and warm -> HD 6XX. Something more neutral and bit more punch and more treble spark, energy above 6K -> HD 58X.

    HD 58X is not sibilant though (6K is about the same or even tiny bit less than on HD 6XX, but the 2-5K is less on HD 58X). HD 6XX has more elevated upper mids so some may find that it has more "upper midrange sibilance" if that makes any sense (feck, it's not sibilance just... I don't know... more presence?). HD 6XX isn't sibilant headphone though. That area is pretty prominent in comparison to especially treble on HD 6XX.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
    sverek likes this.

  11. sverek

    sverek Guest

    Messages:
    6,069
    Likes Received:
    2,975
    GPU:
    NOVIDIA -0.5GB
    Cheers. Makes HD58X more recommendable to people who new to higher end audio.
     
  12. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,599
    Likes Received:
    386
    GPU:
    GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
    Yes, however when it comes down to which is technically better or superior I feel there's no easy answer. Majority will probably prefer HD 58X tuning more (at least initially) though and it does have some pretty clear differences. HD 6XX has forward vocals which I kinda like. IMO HD 6XX has a bit wider soundstage too. Overall HD 6XX is a bit more refined. HD58X has more prominent sub bass while HD 6XX has more prominent mid bass.

    In any case though, I like both a lot. At the moment I'm using the HD 6XX now that my ears are starting to open up and I really do like them too (actually I like them more.....). Can't loose when you have both. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  13. Archvile82

    Archvile82 Master Guru

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    334
    GPU:
    ROG STRIX 4090 OC
    Hi,

    I am using a creative SBX AE5, it sounds pretty good for what it is but I'm picking up slight noise when I have the volume high.

    Would using a Jack to duel XLR lead remedy this ? My amp supports balanced connections.

    Thanks
     
  14. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,691
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    If moving the wire to very different angles from the case doesnt change the nature of the noise then I doubt it.
     
  15. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,691
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Creative may have opened up high end audio to everyone with the new BlasterX G6.
    https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6
    Its a USB 7.1 DAC, 32bit 384KHz with a dynamic range of 130dB.
    This isnt the same as s/n ratio which is probably up to 10dB less but its still very high for a 7.1 PC sound card, especially at only $150 !
    Edit:
    The s/n works out to 114dB (from the thd+n figure given). Not as high as I hoped but still very good for the price of this 7.1 DAC.

    Output impedance of 1 ohm, can drive up to 600ohm headphones with a separate amplifier for each channel.
    https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6
    It can even be used with consoles.

    While tiny enough to be portable it must be fed power via USB. This opens it up to using batteries as a power source for a cleaner sound.
    It only has 3.5mm minijack inputs and outputs, but for the size and price is acceptable.
    I'm eager to find how well it matches up to the best DACs pre 5 years ago.


    Full specs:
    (note they mixed the headphone output specs on the end of the ADC section)

    Specifications

    Weight
    144 g

    Interface/Power
    USB 2.0, USB Bus Powered

    DAC
    Dynamic Range: 130dB (A-weighted), THD+N: ~0.0002%,
    Sampling Rate (DSP Playback): PCM 16/24/32-bit / 44.1, 48.0, 88.2, 96.0kHz,
    Sampling Rate (Direct Mode Playback): PCM 16/24/32-bit / 44.1, 48.0, 88.2, 96.0, 176.4, 192.0, 352.8, 384.0 kHz,
    DoP 24-bit / 176.4 , 352.4 kHz

    ADC
    Dynamic Range: 114dB (A-weighted), THD+N: 0.0006%,
    Sampling Rate (Mic-in): 16/24/32-bit / 44.1, 48.0, 88.2, 96.0, 176.4, 192.0 kHz,
    Sampling Rate (Line-in, Optical-In): 16/24/32-bit / 44.1, 48.0, 88.2, 96.0, 176.4, 192.0 kHz,
    Output Impedance: 1 Ω, Supported Headphone Impedance: 16 - 600 Ω, High Gain: 150 - 600 Ω (+14dB), Low Gain: 16 - 149 Ω (+0dB)

    Audio Technology
    SB-Axx1™

    Connectivity Options (Main)
    1 x ⅛″ Line In/mini TOSLINK In Combo Jack, 1 x ⅛″ Line Out/mini TOSLINK Out Combo Jack, 1 x ⅛″ Headphone/Headset Jack, 1 x ⅛″ Ext. Mic In Jack, 1 x microUSB port for PC/Mac

    Audio Technologies
    Scout Mode

    Supported Operating Systems
    Windows® 7, Windows® 8, Windows Vista®, Windows® 8.1, Windows® 10, Mac OS X v10.8 and above

    Included Accessories
    microUSB cable, Mini TOSLINK Cable

    Dimensions
    111 x 70 x 24 mm

    ASIO
    Playback & Recording

    Recommended Usage
    Gaming
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018

  16. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,599
    Likes Received:
    386
    GPU:
    GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
    It uses the same custom amp than AE-5 so it should be good.

    When using discreet amp and line out or AE-5's amp?
     
  17. Archvile82

    Archvile82 Master Guru

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    334
    GPU:
    ROG STRIX 4090 OC
    When using discrete amp and line out I can hear pc interference when the volume is high, it's not enough to really affect the music but it's annoying it's there. Doesn't happen on my other devices.

    I haven't tried moving the cables to be honest, I'll have a look when my PC is back up and running. Currently down as I'm waiting for some parts.
     
  18. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,599
    Likes Received:
    386
    GPU:
    GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
    Ground issues can be a pain and in those cases external USB card might not even solve anything (unless you filter the USB power). Mine's just silent though. What amp are you using?

    AE-5:s amp is isolated differently from line-out. Chances are that it will not have those noises. It doesn't even touch the metal bracket.
     
  19. vf

    vf Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,184
    Likes Received:
    307
    GPU:
    ATi Radeon™
    What is the definition of high volume? Loud that it hurts when you hear the interference through regular play or max when nothing plays?
     
  20. Archvile82

    Archvile82 Master Guru

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    334
    GPU:
    ROG STRIX 4090 OC
    Sorry for the late reply, been busy with work but your replies are really appreciated.

    My amp is a marantz pm-11s3. I'll be more specific about the noise. I heard it when testing my headphones, I use the sound blaster headphone unit that came with my old zxr plugged into the headphone socket on the amp, when i have the volume at half way on the headphone unit I would hear the pc noise ( hard disk electrical noise or when you move the mouse pitch goes higher ). Now the music does drown out the noise but I feel it's affecting the quality somewhat. I think it's an earthing issue somewhere.

    I got a chance to buy the marantz sa 11s3, this has a built in dac and was thinking of using that on my pc as I'd imagine it would be much better than the creative card and at the same time may resolve the noise as it's external usb device.

    What's your thoughts on this ?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page