Elon Musk vs Mark Zuckerberg Round One

I am saying that Elon Musk is more than just a shrewd businessman. He is actually intelligent. Saying that he's not is your sour grapes masquerading as something else.

My reply was aimed at your condescending tone toward a guy who has an actual rocket science company.

 

The same could be said of Musk though he made his cash through similar software companies, Zip2, Paypal, etc yet for some reason people seem to think what he says holds more sway and to be honest I can't really see why? OpenAI, a research company to make safe AI that is open for anyone to use? Sorry but isn't that a contradiction in terms.

1st if it's an AI then at what point does it stop deciding it wants to be safe and for the benefit of mankind and decides it wants to kill everything?
2nd if it's open and available for anyone to use then what's stopping someone from taking that AI and using to make better and more effective ways of killing people?

Musk seems to about buzz words and over hyping everything that his companies do. Yes I get that as CEO it is his job to 'sell' the companies but no one ever calls him out on the bull**** he talks.

 

Elon made his money from those companies but selling his shares and deciding to travel to Russia to learn rocket engineering then completely sink the entirety of his net worth into this projects is a little different than what Zuckerberg has done. The guy has an engineering background in multiple fields. I don't know if that makes him smarter or not then Zucker - but I think on the issue of AI it's better to be pro-active then reactive.

And again, Elon's stance on AI is multifaceted. He talks about the doomsday AI scenario but that's mostly just hyperbole on his part. His real concerns, like I said in my previous post, is mostly with the societal issues that will stem from AI.

It's not like he's saying that AI shouldn't exist - he's saying that there should be conversations about how it's going to be integrated into society in a way that doesn't collapse the entire system. Whether that be through massive poverty levels due to lack of jobs or doomsday robot killing scenarios. Problem is no one at the government level, of any government really, is having meaningful talks about this. Even basic things - like what are you going to do in the next decade when large industries are losing ~10% of their workforce due to automation? Are you going to pay to retrain these people? Or are you just expecting truck drivers in their mid 50s/60's to have money saved up to re-educate themselves?

It's like a huge problem and Musk is just saying "we need to talk about this" and Mark is saying "it's not a problem, everything will be rosy, the industry will solve itself" basically - and I don't agree with that all and even if I did I still think there needs to be a larger conversation about it.

 

It´s not about being condescending about him, i have no problems recognizing he´s a smart guy and i also have no problems with his success. My only problem is with people thinking he´s some sort of god/genius that has all the answers to important problems and that everyone else that thinks otherwise is automatically wrong.
A perfect example of this is Tesla. Lots of people think that Tesla is a revolution in the car industry and that´s going to save the planet and that´s stupid. They are selling electric cars instead of combustion ones and that´s it. Each approach has it´s pros and cons but none is a perfect solution like Musk wants people to believe regarding electric cars. The only revolution Tesla may bring is autonomous driving but that´s another matter.
Basically he exaggerates about the merits of the products of his companies and people just follow him and praise everything hes says or does like everything is perfect and better than anything else in the market.

Kudos for his acomplishements, nothing else.

 

But Tesla is a revolution in the car industry.. I think every single car manufacturer now has an EV car either in development or out and some companies have already pledged to go entirely EV already. Like obviously Elon isn't infallible or a god genius, but so far most of the stuff he's called he's been right about. Most of the stuff he says just makes sense from a logical standpoint, and there are very few voices of reason in our world today so when one comes along and then actually starts delivering on his promises - people are obviously going to look up to him.

For example with the AI stuff, all he's saying is that we should be having conversations about potential rules and regulations regarding AI. AI a technology that by Mark Zuckerberg's own admission could have a profound impact on the world - Why is that a bad thing?

Also do you have a link where he says electric cars are the perfect solution? Because I don't recall him ever saying that and there seems to be this weird thing on Guru3D and Elon Musk where people just fabricate claims that he made. I don't know why but it's happened several times. Like he's definitely argued about the pros of electric cars but he also talks about the negatives and solutions they are working on to solve the negatives quite frequently as well. He just thinks the long term advantages outweigh the current issues and I'm inclined to agree.

 

That's the thing, "For now".

But Musk is right when we're talking about the future imo, but we're still at least 50 years away from that, unless someone makes a sudden, major breakthrough.

 

Several countries in Europe have banned production of new gas and diesel cars after 2040 and I just read Germany wants their ban to start in 2030. It would have happened eventually anyways, but without the work Tesla has put in to the technology, we'd still only have the terrible Toyota Prius and Chevy Volt.

 

Like being a decade ahead of scientists estimation of when an AI would beat a human at the game of go? That happened.

Forallsecure's Mayhem also won the cyber grand challenge and has proven that AI can easily be weaponized.

 

For me electrical cars are not a revolution, they are an "evolution" at best. It´s just a question of having a different powertrain everything else is basically the same. And an electrical car is no better or worse than an ICE car, it´s different with advantages and disadvantages inherent to each one.

As for every car company developing an electrical car, that´s due to image reasons. Because of the air pollution in cities and scandals like dieselgate, Musk and others sold the idea that ICE cars are the problem and electrical cars are the solution. Politicians jumped on the bandwagon and now had the idea of banning ICE cars on cities to they can say they are worried about the planet...

The curious part is that there´s already a much better solution for this problem, a solution that would prevent massive pollution necessary to produce electrical cars and the necessary infra structure to power them and save billions on the process, but no one wants to consider it because there´s no money to gain from it...

The only revolution that my come from Tesla is autonomous driving but everyone is already pursuing it, so even that one is very debatable.
Funny thing about autonomous driving, car makers are digging their own grave by using it on their future cars and even funnier, in the long term autonomous driving is probably going to turn in the solution i already pointed out previously in my reply!...

As for creating rules and regulations to minimize the future impact of A.I., those are useless. They are going to be made in a way they cater for the interesting parties, big companies and governments, and others are simply not going to care about them anyway. All we have to do is look to the impact the privacy legislation has on companies like Google, Facebook and others, they simply don´t care...
Also i find ironic that Musk is so worried about the impact of A.I. when Tesla is heavily promoting it in the form of autonomous driving...

 

I prefer mutation, an evolution suggests something that has gotten better, i.e evolved. EV's are not in any respect better than their ICE equivalents, in many respects they are fundamentally worse. Like most mutations it will flop around trying to overthrow the species from which it mutated from before both the mutation and the established species finally end up getting killed off by a true evolution.

No doubt a nuclear powered car.

 

^ I still don't get the hype for (mostly) coal powered cars. I guess the huge government subsidy is great? Idk, I have always had a strong dislike towards Musk.

I'll stick with my vette.

 

Complains about government subsidies. Drives a car made by Government Motors. Makes sense.

Maybe you feel threatened since he has big rockets.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/31/ai_defeats_antivirus_software/

Speaking of weaponized AI... Used Musks AI too.

 

At the end of the day they only thing they really care about is survival, and for them to survive they need MONEY.

Money will always be at the forefront of their progression, that is exactly why AI with the likes of Mark etc, which is not controlled, is truly dangerous.

 

His rocket ain't that big it just has a really high thrust to weight ratio...

...i'll find the exit on my own thanks!