8GB RAM with NO PAGEFILE CLUB or TOPIC (lol)

It's called PAE. It extends the physical address space (not the virtual).

The real issue here is that Phil doesn't understand how it works. If anyone dares to contradict him, they are idiots. Now he is calling "Mark" an idiot, because he doesn't understand what he writes.

 

PAE was what I was referring to. I'm simply saying that the OS can't necessarily use any of that outlying memory. Although I do believe newer 32bit OS's can move the address space around within the entire physical range. Not sure if that's true or not.

And I'd wager that Pill does know how it works. He's read all the same things you have, and been in this thread since the beginning. He never said Mark was an idiot, just that he's been known to write vague or misleading statements in the past. I'm pretty sure you're both arguing from the same side. Just let it go.

 

That is a lie. 32bit CPU's cannot address beyond 4GB.

I wrote a whole post pointing out the 4GB memory limit was a hardware limitation. That was the only point I made.

You replied telling everyone how wrong I was and that the 4GB limit was not hardware dependent? You said I was talking trash, it wasn't a hardware limitation,

Now you say the 4GB limit is actually a hardware limitation, as in the above quote but pretend you were arguing a different point all along.

You are full of self contradictions and back peddling. All your comments on this forum are.

Wrong. All 32bit Operating Systems can address over 4GB using PAE, with a compatible CPU.

This means the CPU can address past 4GB, therefore the OS, however if the chipset doesn't support over 4GB RAM then only address space in the PF can be used, not physical RAM.

In other words, if you disabled the PF, total commit limit would be 4GB no matter how much ram was installed. This is a hardware limitation.

Which is what I said originally. I'm repeating myself yet again.

Wrong. It supports 4GB officially, 8GB unofficially.
Only server chips support remapping, not consumer desktops or laptops. Mark R had a laptop.

No.
PAE extends total address space available to Windows. But if the chipset doesn't support over 4GB RAM then this extended address space will comprise of the pagefile.

If the hardware can't use over 4GB RAM, neither can Windows. It would be like trying to hack Catalyst to run Crossfire with one GPU.

No, I did not call mark an idiot, I said his blogs on memory were contradictory, vague, and confusing, and wrong, which they are. Just like your posts.

 

I hardly know where to begin, so I will only address your last and false statement.

You need to look up the datasheet on the chipset. The table shows you how much dram you can connect to it. It tells you nothing about the innerworking of it. The datasheet will tell you that it has 36bit addressing and memory remapping.

Address space vs the number of memory modules. Again two things...

 

OMG Don't you get it? 4GB chipsets don't support remapping, that's the whole point. You cannot be that ignorant.....


And by the way when I saisd 4GB limit I was talking about the 4GB installed RAM fallacy.

*ignore*

 

What don't you understand? The 965 chipset does 36bit addressing. For others to read:

intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/316273.pdf

"36-bit interface, allowing the CPU to access the entire 64 GB of the memory address space.

The (G)MCH provides the capabiliy to remap or reclaim the physical memory overlapped by the Memory Mapped I/O logical address space."

Phil doesn't understand that address space is not the same as physical ram modules.

 

I have 16GB RAM and I have 3 hard drives.

240GB SSD = OS (NO PAGEFILE)

1TB HDD = GAMES DRIVE (NO PAGEFILE)

1TB HDD = MEDIA/BACKUP DRIVE (PAGEFILE SET TO SYSTEM MANAGED)

With this config Windows sets a max limit of 16384GB for pagefile. This is under Windows 8.1 (latest updates installed).

I get around 6% memory usage when I first start up Windows. This is with literally nothing loading, just MSI AB, and RTSS.

I find that when I disable all pagefile my RAM usage goes to around 8% when I first load up Windows and then with a few apps loaded (ie Chrome, Steam, media player, etc) I get around 10% usage. With it enabled and under the same load conditions it only moves from 6% to around 8% with apps loaded.

Also with PF disabled I do get some weird errors too, some games performance drops, stutter occurs in some games too. I also have some games just out right crash sometimes.

Even with 16GB RAM I still use PF, Windows 7 is a different story though, Windows 8 and 8.1 has MUCH better memory management and therefore does a MUCH better job at handling the available memory pools.

 

PAE on 32bit OS extends the total address space the operating system can use. No matter if that space is in RAM, or the page file.

Virtual Address Space means all address space available to Windows, both RAM and the pagefile. It is not the pagefile. This is what you fail to understand.

If the pagefile is disabled, Virtual Address Space resides in RAM.

Everything I have said in the last 2 pages about the (less than) 4GB limit is regarding PHYSICAL RAM ONLY.

I have already said that remapping on P965 only applies to servers.
If it applied to laptops, then Mark's laptop would not have shown 3.5GB with 4GB RAM installed. Obviously you didn't read the Technet blog I linked to.


I think you're trolling. Reported. And can we get an IP check too please.

 

Oh you are trolling, I see this is your second account.

 

This alone says everything. You have zero understanding of this topic.

As to the rest of your post: You are impossible to discuss anything with. You are way to aggressive. I'm not going to feed you anymore.

As to my second account... I've lost a password somewhere. Does that make me a troll? Lol.

 

This is a tech forum, how much credit does someone deserve if they cannot recover their password?

 

I have no longer access to that email account. Doh.

 

Did you lose your password to that email account as well? Were you previously banned or something?

 

Sorry to hear you lost your email account. I had saved in my email every thread The General posted in and accidently deleted then so I know how you feel.

 

Lol


Maybe he's not a troll, just confused. Or possibly I'm being tested by Hilbert.

Either way, I'm not wasting any more time with him anyway. Kinda pointless.

 

With reference to "8GB RAM with NO PAGEFILE CLUB or TOPIC (lol)", is the meat of the discussion that it is okay to run 8GB RAM and no pagefile on a 32 bit OS? Iam only interested in the RAM as it applies to NO PAGEFILE and NO ISSUES.

 

8GB with no PageFile is just fine. 16GB with no PageFile is better. 32-64GB with no PageFile would be great.

 

I've deleted my earlier post regarding Winternals and memory limits as I can see it will just cause problems. I should have known better. Sorry for derailment.

 

I wish windows memory management used pagefile as a last resort, just for safety purposes, in case you ran out of ram, and showed just some friendly (Configurable on/off and so on...) notification about lack of physical memory. It should be only reason to use it at all. Now some of my PCs have to deal with needless paging.

 

Well, I'm on Windows 7, with 16 GB RAM and when running ac unity at 2560x1600 it needs a lot more ram, so my system was at 70% going to 80% and Windows telling me it need more pagefile. Because I have lowered to 1 GB. Now running an android emulator too for running the companion application for unity, so now at 90 % and have to increase the PF at 5 GB now. I was increasing it about 1 GB each time I got the message of not enough memory. So, in my case, it will be pointless to even think using only 8GB and without PF. Come from running at 1920x1200 to 2560x1600 and it is big increase in VRAM usage, and also in RAM. I see my 3GB VRAM on my cards are not enough anymore, at least in this resolution with all eye candy turned on. For example the same unity was using 60 % of memory at 1200p and 80% at 1600p, i mean the whole system not just the game. I guess is time to upgrade from my 16GB at 2400 to 32 GB at 2133, just to keep the oc on my cpu. I hope this helps on unity and those tearing. Also my ssd drives keeps reading all the time while playing unity, so my guess the PF is really ni use.