High End Build ($3k +) Seeking feedback

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Luponius, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    It's nearing it's final steps and I'm just about ready to order and get it built, after 2 and a half months of waiting and research. Just would like some quick feedback on it. It's all neatly written down in a PDF document which you can get from here:

    http://www.mediafire.com/?q72hg507rametqr

    Thoughts about each component are listed right below the components table.

    As a reference for box highlights:
    -Green indicates a verified purchase (in stock, good price)
    -Blue indicates a "side-purchase". Think of it as low priority.
    -Orange indicates an "emergency switch". Other components were present before, and it turns out they were not available for some reason. I swapped them with these new components.

    Would like thoughts about the build in general. It will, globally, result in nearly $3,300, or €2450. All other details are available in the document itself.
     
  2. AshCation

    AshCation Member Guru

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    Well the best option today is Sandy Bridge Plataform , BUT with the SATA II port problem , SB will only be availabilit in April or March looks like.

    I think its best to wait SB , but if you want to buy the computer this month , X58 or AM3 is your choice.

    I liked the build , I have a SteelSeries Headphone myself and I like it.

    But I dont like this CPU cooler , ok its very cool , but the performance isnt that good , why dont you buy a better version?

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118075

    The other thing I didnt like is the HDs , I think its better you get a cheap and good SSD for OS (60GB OCZ Vertex 2 for example) , and only 1 Western Digital for Storage , but the price will rise a bit I think.

    OBS: Sorry for my poor english , hope you understand my opinion ;D
     
  3. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    GPU:
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    Sandy-bridge: It's a fairly new technology and simply doesn't feel really gaming-oriented, at least for now. I was heavily weighing whether to go for it or not and this is what I thought:

    - Currently the i7 950 is a great bang for the buck considering what it gives back at its price range.
    - The SB series are fine and all, but they currently have some minor design holes which are there on purpose to keep the X58 selling strong.
    - Shifting to a SB build will mean I'll change my CPU. This essentially provides me no real benefit, my build encompasses everything, and if the future leans towards sandy-bridge, I'll simply buy a SB motherboard and SB CPU when it's time to upgrade. By then SB will have settled down and become more reliable and comfortable. I'd rather not step into terrain I haven't completely discovered as of yet.

    CPU Cooler: "Performance isn't that good" - Checking various benchmarks I noticed the performance was quite nice, and will most probably be even better than shown coupled up with a HAF X case.

    Can I please get your sources for sub-optimal performance you've noticed from this CPU cooler, and any recommendations (with benchmarking evidence, of course :p) for better coolers (keeping in mind I don't want to overspend, I'm right at about my limit on CPU cooling budget).

    I'll most probably overclock later down the line (in 2 years or so, when the warranty dies out and my system starts slowing down) and by that time I'll be fully ready to lay down some good cash for custom-built liquid cooling, for real overclocking potential. Overspending on a temporary CPU cooler doesn't seem to make much sense to me at this point in time, as long as the cooler keeps temps in a safe zone ( below 70 deg ideally ).

    HDDs - I understand there's an undeniable performance gab between HDDs and SSDs. I was originally considering 2x 40Gig SSDs setup in a striped RAID. The main flaws with SSDs are these:

    -Very new technology, which means it's being held back on purpose for maximum profit. I hate taking the bait on such obvious marketing schemes.
    -Very expensive, as mentioned above, it would put me well above my budget, since I have already considered it before.
    -Very small in size. I plan on recording video footage. And this means that for 3 hours of recorded footage, I'll easily shoot up above 200 Gig of data. This will obviously be piped down since I'll render (compress) and upload, then remove it when space starts running low.
    -Considering it will be very space intensive, I decided it would be best to simply get high storage, slower drives for cheaper than more expensive, faster yet low storage drives. It just doesn't fit my situation at all.

    Thanks for the feedback =]

    Lupo ^^
     
  4. lehtv

    lehtv Ancient Guru

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    - no sound card?
    - no mouse mat? get steelseries QcK, QcK heavy, or QcK+ (BIG)
    - don't get steelseries Ikari, it's uncomfortable to lift and it's low build quality. Instead: Logitech MX518 (though it has angle snapping), Razer Deathadder, Razer Abyssus (beware jittering on some mousepads), or if 400 DPI is enough then MS IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 or MS Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1
    - get sandy bridge 2500K for gaming
    - do you really need 2000mhz memory? plus on sandy bridge memory speed is independent of cpu speed
    - since you're doing gaming, get a 120hz display, e.g. Asus VG236 or LG W2363D
    - GTX 580 is waaaaaay over priced for the performance it offers. I would suggest GTX 570 instead, then sell it and upgrade to the then-second-best card when needed
    - the headset is not good build quality, which i can tell from experience having used it. I'd suggest looking for headphones and the mic separately, as headphones tend to have better sound quality for the price than headsets. E.g. anything from Grado or Sennheiser.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011

  5. Haazhel

    Haazhel Member

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    I'd change 3 things:

    1. Go for 1 60GB SATA3 SSD for system, and 1 2TB SATA3 Regular HDD. Why want to make a "future proof system and still use 3 years old standards when there are new better ones available? Plus they're not that much more expensive.

    2. If you go green team (nvidia), just go for the bests : EVGA or MSI.

    3. Change the Zalman cooler for a Megahalem. They're the same price but the Megahalem is much more efficient. Careful tho, i think it's sold without fan, so get a quality one (or two). You won't regret the extra euros put on the cooling AND you might get a higher OC on this if you ever intend to.

    my 3 cents.
     
  6. lehtv

    lehtv Ancient Guru

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    Sandy Bridge processors are currently the best gaming processors, period.

    Not as good as i5 2500K.

    What?

    By not overclocking an i7 you're just holding your performance back. Warranty doesn't enter into it, overclocking a processor is the simplest thing ever, and the risk of actually causing damage in doing so is very very low if you go step by step.

    You talk of overspending on a temporary cooler, yet you're overspending on a temprorary graphics card
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  7. AshCation

    AshCation Member Guru

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    http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2567&page=5

    And

    http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2567&page=5

    I know its only a review , but its hard to find a review with the 2 coolers , in this case 9900 MAX is 2º better , and alot more silent.

    But the market have alots of good coolers , not only Zalman , Thermaltake , Noctua , Prolimatech , CoolerMaster , 3RSystem make top coolers too.

    BTW Sandy Bridge 2500K is a little better than i7 950 , but nothing to worry , the point is Sandy Bridge after the new revision , is more future-proof.

    But I have a X58 plataform and im fine ;D
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  8. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    if youre getting the zalman, do not get the zalman cnps9900a led. thats an older model of the cooler.

    get the newer zalman cnps9900max with led. its larger with more fins and more heatpipes, nickel coated, and zalman rate it as capable of handling 300w tdp. cant really go past it.

    as for SSDs, theres no reason not to get one since the sandforce based drives have just dropped in price massively. if you want insane speed, get an ocz revodrive x2. 730mb/s via pcie2.0. you wont find any faster until pcie3.0 goes mainstream.

    and sandy bridge i7 2600k is a pretty darn good bang per buck CPU. its priced similarly to the i7 950 in some countries, and yet runs cooler, overclocks better, and performs much better overall. a sandy bridge i7 2600k overclocked to 4.5ghz more or less matches the performance of an i7 980x hexacore in all cpu related benchmarks.

    on top of that, if you think that triple channel makes the socket1366 perform better than dual channel, think again. look at the benchmarks.

    http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i5-2500k-and-core-i7-2600k-review/18

    a stock i7 2600k has similar memory read speeds to high end socket 1366 triple channel setups, but has much faster memory write speeds. factor in that overclocking will improve the performance and there's not much reason to stick with socket 1366.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  9. deltatux

    deltatux Guest

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  10. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    @lehtv
    -Integrated sound card is fine, I ain't a DJ.
    -Didn't bother mentioning the mouse mat, is kind of obvious I'll be needing one though.
    -I've tested the mouse myself, it felt very comfortable and solid, my hands meshed well with it, and all owners of the ikari greatly supported it in their reviews. It mostly depends on the kind of hands you have.
    -The only real "decent" cooler i have access to is the one I chose, the others are over the price range, or reviewed to ... "suck".
    -GTX 580 is "overpriced" for a reason. There's quite a jump between the 570 and 580. Reviews outlined so. I'm going for a gamer's enthusiast build, and cheaping out on a GFX card won't do me any good.
    -I have tried my friend's Steelseries Siberia, I'm unsure what you found missing in it, but once again, from a gaming perspective, gamers have very good opinions of Siberia. I found it very comfortable and considering all the items available (note I can't buy from newegg, and prices here in europe touch the skies) the siberia kind of fit the bill.

    @haazhel
    The "new standards" are so new, that they're being held back on technology on purpose. Once again, I've already considered SSDs, and it's simply not a good bang for the buck. They will (having checked local prices) literally double the price for going for what you suggested, for what will be a semi-noticeable performance boost. As a gamer, an SSD will help me during load times, it won't change playing performance at all.

    @lehtv
    The bests don't exist in my country sadly. Well they technically do, and having called the supplier the price was 50 euros higher than the one I'm getting, with a slightly lower memory clock:
    What I'm getting
    "The best" (Price is bugged on the website so I had to phone them)

    I will overclock with liquid cooling later down the line. It's how I do things, considering my current situation (our country can actually get pretty warm, and busting the warranty and then being forced to mess with the clocks every damn season wouldn't be nice at all). I've once again checked all my local prices, and that's about the only reasonable option I can see =/

    The main concept with Sandy Bridge, and the reason I'm keeping away from it is because it's a new system, it will be further improved down the line, and ... sadly yes, we have no SB components at the moment, and I can't wait any longer (it was fortunate the past 2 weeks were exam-filled, because I don't have a computer of my own at the moment and need to build one asap). Sandybridge will become something more in a few years, and whenever I'll turn to an upgrade, the motherboard and CPU will change together, so it's not a big worry to get the 960 now, and a sandy later on when they're more available locally.

    Everyone's basically told me, and I am inclined to agree, that attempting to "future proof" a motherboard or CPU is a waste of money and time. As such I'm going with what's available, and will last me for quite a while to come.

    Anything else you may have spotted that would deserve some attention? Case? PSU? Any thoughts in general about possible bottlnecks, some minor mods I could consider that you've found very useful on your own personal build?
     

  11. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    Your SSD approval would shoot me way above the budget lol :p No thanks hehe, still I was very interested in revodrives, but I just had to give up on that.

    I'm still unable to stumble across motherboards which support the SB CPUs in any retail store, and I see no shade of any SB CPUs either, I'd rather not bother with them as it stands. Zalman MAX is takin' a kit-kat away from my country, I have no access to it, and the 9900 should pull me through just fine with this build. Looks good, and will keep temps within my ideal limits, even during the summer on stock settings.

    @Sever Thanks for the links, was an interesting read, and kind of made me wish I didn't live in this country (Can't wait to finish my course and eff off from here) considering how limited we are, and how hard we're pushed with money. The same build from newegg would be way cheaper than $3500 which I'm forced to spend (in Euro currency).
     
  12. lehtv

    lehtv Ancient Guru

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    @ Luponius

    If you're going for a gamer's enthusiast build, then you ought to be investing in proper sound for gaming. Believe me, once you experience gaming sounds as they should be you never go back, it's just like with graphics. I can warmly recommend Asus Xonar DX, it's just 50 eur or so. The main reason it rocks is Dolby Headphone. Based on my experience with Sennheiser PC350, I'd say that your Steelseries Headset will be on a different level with Dolby Headphone, though I can't guarantee Dolby Headphone will provide similar results for both closed and open cup headphones.

    When you get tired of the Ikari, post back.

    GTX 580 isn't "overpriced". It's overpriced. 40% more price to get 10% more performance compared to GTX 570. Your Asus Sabertooth or similar motherboard, and your large well cooled case, could easily handle SLI right now. If you want the best performance for the money overall, get GTX 560 SLI or HD 6950 2GB unlocked Crossfire. Both will have easily higher FPS than 580, and for the few games that crossfire/sli doesn't work properly in, the single card is still adequate for a long while. That's at the price of ONE GTX 580.

    As I said, the type of headset that Siberia is, it's just low build quality. The T-shaped plastic cup-holders will break easily if you accidentally drop the headset a couple of times, and the wire mechanism holding the "head band" is by no means sturdy.

    Overall though, it sounds to me that you have already decided what components you want, and weren't looking for suggestions, but approval.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  13. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    All right I just woke up and feel fairly refreshed as opposed to attempting to read and reply in a civil manner at 3AM, having finished a full wave of exams spanning out over a week, that same day. Not excuses, just an apology if I sounded like some prick who wasn't taking suggestions into consideration.

    SandyBridge - I'm honestly very interested in this orientation for a build, sadly I haven't seen any of the SB family components at local retailers, and one thing I'd liked cleared up in regards to this topic: What would be a supported gaming motherboard for this type of CPU? I'm actually unsure if any and all LGA1155 sockets would fit the bill, or not...

    In regards to gaming processors I'm unsure if you're referring to their integrated graphics capabilities or some other features. The "design holes" I was referring to was mainly gaming motherboards. They ain't picked up that well as of yet, although I did notice quite a few laying around in Europe (none in my country -.-) They mostly go "overkill" and thus greatly increase the price.

    What I'm planning on doing is to go with what's available right now, in a few years, when it's time to upgrade the SB choices will have greatly increased, and hopefully we'll have a nice selection locally as well, at which point i'll upgrade to them (and in my case, CPU upgrades constitue a Motherboard upgrade - I simply ain't going to bother futureproofing a core component such as a CPU/Mobo, it's not a sound plan to work on).

    Graphics Card - Yeash, the price is high, but the graphics card is in no way a temporary solution. I decided to go for a single GPU build for ease of mind. All current games don't really have porblems with multi GPU applications, but several older games (which I'm definitely going to be playing for the most part) have often cooked up several whining in regards to multi GPU.

    Thus I decided to buy a single GPU build right now, and when the games available at that time have settled down, and GTX 580 prices have go down (without sending the GFX card out of stock), I'll be either SLIng with two of them for a "cheap fix" or selling the 580 and shifting on to what's available at the time.

    If I notice that multi GPU by then is very effective, efficient and headache-free I'll most definitely go for it. While right now things have seriously improved over the past multi GPU technologies, and they'll keep going strong in that direction. GFX wise I ain't exactly planning to overly future-proof, but I'll have plenty of good options with this 580 when it's time for change.

    As a side note, MSI does not "exist" here, so the only two options are EVGA or Gainward. Gainward comes out at 5 Euros cheaper (lol...) and has slightly higher memory clock (once again kind of a lol specification) but looking at both facts, it feels like Gainward would be the ideal purchase. I'm not a brand addict, in fact as long as I get the performance I'm after, as long as the distributor can provide decent support, I don't care which it is I'm buying from.

    And yes, most games I'll be playing right now are the kind who cough and wheeze at multi GPU games (I've been unable to play anything past COD4 on low before, so at this point a ton of "new-old" games will open up for me, some of which do not really respond nicely to multi GPU setups. Yes, I could deactivate crossfire, but the result would be having paid for 2 only to use 1.

    One such game is World of Warcraft, and I do spend a good deal of time playing it, so going for a heavy and reliable single GPU will most hopefully open up more paths for me to go down towards. Considering most games are pretty GPU dependant these days, chaeping out on GFX cards on gaming rigs was something I was advised to never attempt over and over again by several people.

    Cooling - I am not overclocking, at least nowhere near yet. The reason I'm moving out to buying a non-stock fan is because temperatures in my country push well past 30 degrees, and on full load, that may cause problems seeing stock coolers struggle greatly.

    The HAF X should make up for whatever my CPU cooler doesn't, and this is once again, sadly limited by my choice of options from local retailers. This is in fact the priciest component there is locally available, and I still felt it's within my reach to go out and buy it.

    As another side note, I do have to check on the megahelm, the price on this hasn't been announced, but it might be a good alternative, I'll check out once I'm able to - thanks for pointing that out. And I'm very positive the 9900 MAX is not available in my country.

    I could possible "wait" and go with the stock cooler until I have to switch? I do plan on using the computer at quite high loads right off the bat, sadly so I doubt that owuld be a sound plan, until I can get my hands on the upgraded version.

    Storage - SSD or HDD. I'm a gamer, and it's a crystal clear concept that once I am in game, faster storage doesn't really matter. The only boost I would gain would be when playing + recording, but even the cheapest setups that involve an SSD will literally more than double the price, and I'd even end up losing storage. To even try to go for an SSD (which is extremely low on disk space) to just get faster loading, I'm honestly not comfortable with.

    This is once again a technology which I'd rather give it more time to evolve and "unlock" itself fully to the consumer. A RAID 0 WD CB setup will provide me with plenty of storage space, and a tiny performance boost over the other HDD setups. I still feel dropping money on an SSD (while possibly providing a lightning fast performance) is not the right way to spend my money.

    @Seven I'm not sure which it is you're talking about that dropped in price massively, but over here the revodrives cost a ton. Maybe it's something I'll go for later down the line, but once again, SSD technology is not something I can afford when considering high prices and low storage.

    Sound - @lehtv Yes, I sounded like a prick; I'm sorry, it was 3AM and I couldn't really string sensible phrases together, but still wanted to attempt to motivate as much chit chat as possible going on in the build (weak way to grab more information, but it kind of works so I apologize for walking in with the wrong shoe on my foot).

    I wont be buying the Siberia based on what you've told me. For now I have a (beyond cheap) Logitech H330 which will serve me just *fine* for the coming weeks while I iron out everything else. I'll be going out to buy a real headset when I have the need and money for it (never know, I might be able to get some extra discounts out of my purchase overall and pick something nice for sound)

    Would like a little help with the headphones you mentioned, and possibly a very good, clean and reliable recording device (microhpone) which will kill any and all noise and pick up clean crisp sound. I searched a little bit, but as you may have noticed I don't really care much about sound, even though it's a very important aspect of gaming in general, so would appreciate your guidance when it comes down to that.

    RAM - Need 2000Mhz? No, I'll be clocking it down and tightening the timings as much as I can while keeping it stable. The choice and course of action may appear awkward, but you can go ahead and slap our pricing on this stuff. It's kind of ridiculous how it all works out, but overall it did turn out to be the only real reasonable option I have when taking into account clock frequency, timings and voltage.

    Display - No, please don't make wish for that xD I soooo wanted to buy it, and everybody told me to not bother, considering how my budget plays out. US Prices are extremely different from the local ones I'm forced to fight against, those kind of displays are simply not an option :(

    Thanks for the feedback thus far, it most definitely proved to be very informative.
     
  14. sdamaged99

    sdamaged99 Guest

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    Buying a first generation i7 would be absolute madness with SB outperforming it heavily for the same money

    i7 2600K
    Corsair H70 with 2 x Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpms
    HAFX
    8GB GSkill RipjawsX or save and get Corsair Vengeance
    Asus P8P67 Pro
    Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB X 2
    GTX580
    Asus Xonar D2X
    Any decent 1KW PSU

    Not sure on monitor i'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  15. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    the SSDs that dropped in price were the sandforce based ones. like the patriot inferno for example. i bought a 100gb for $450AU in july last year. two months later, it dropped down to $270AU for a 120gb model.
     

  16. xankazo

    xankazo Guest

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    Nice rig, if you really can't wait any longer for the Sandy Bridge fix. But man, do not leave an SSD out. And why not an X-Fi soundcard at least? Good luck, mate.
     
  17. Luponius

    Luponius Guest

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    I've been able to get an updated version for CPU coolers, please check it out (tick show all and organize by price descending). I've noticed they've fully updated the list with several prolimatech components

    http://www.simarksupplies.com/Product.aspx/Category/C28-Cooling

    And since everyone's been drilling nails about the sandybridge, even though I've already asked them to order triple channel ram i decided to just go out on one foot and look for something on overclockers.

    I found this bundle: http://www.********************/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-013-OP (not sure if the ocuk website is banned but it's turning into a ton of stars) which is basically an i7 2600K coupled with a motherboard which supports it. Can you please check through it and tell me if it will fit the bill for both RAM, the GTX 580 GFX card as well as anything else relevant?

    I don't know if anything can be done about the sandybridge at this point, but seeing i stumbled upon it i might as well ask and see what I'm provided back with.

    Soundcard wise I'll probably consider later down the line, but not at this point in time, thanks for the reference though.

    SSDs: I haven't found anything in relation to this sadly, would appreciate some links if available to work with =]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  18. sdamaged99

    sdamaged99 Guest

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    Bundle is fine mate. The Corsair Vengeance memory is extremely good value. You could probably get away with just 4GB if you are just gaming. 8GB if doing anything more with videos etc

    That's the same board and CPU that i have and it is FAST. Faster than the 980X in fact in many things - certainly gaming!
    EDIT If you're just going to be gaming, then stick with the i5 2500K

    It's marginally faster than the 2600K and will probably run cooler due to lacking hyper threading


    Why would you plan on watercooling 2 years down the line? Surely you will just be replacing out of date components with ones MUCH faster

    If you really aren't interested in overclocking, just stick with the non K version of the 2500 and save some money now. Put the saved cash towards new parts in 2-3 years
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  19. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    how many hard drives are you planning on running overall? if less than 6, then look towards the asrock p67 extreme6. it has 6 sata3 ports, which is plenty if you plan to run sandy bridge. the issue only affects sata2.
     
  20. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Guest

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