Guide to RAM

Question prolly doesnt belong here, but as we atlready started here then, if in my BIOS i couldnt find any FSB option that can be changed, can it be done via software in windows? also, FSB overclock is the actualy thing that increases CPU clock?

 

Have a look at the posts on the previous page. Towards the end of the page I answered a question about overclocking in Windows.

The FSB is the Front Side Bus which determines the speed at which the CPU communicates with the Northbridge. The NB is the memory controller.

The FSB will increase the CPU clock frequency if you leave the multiplier as is. FSB x multiplier = CPU clock.

Using your CPU as an example, 266 (FSB) x 9 (multi) = 2.4GHz (CPU clock). I personally have increased my FSB from that 266 to 412MHz, leaving my multi at 9x, and that's giving me the 3.7GHz I'm running.

 

Ok, and if i overclock via software then can i revert it back even if i did not overclocked via BIOS? If i reset BIOS but overclock was done with software, then it will still override the software tool settings?

 

Unless there is an option in the software to "load settings at startup" or similar, then the software overclock will be lost each time you reboot and you will need to apply it again. Clearing the CMOS (resetting BIOS settings) wouldn't clear your software overclock because you haven't touched the BIOS anyways.

 

I did never see when this thread was re-opened. I had to read the DDR2 (D9s) update.
First. Let me tell you Wildstyle that you did a good one. Simple and concrete.

Now, Im in a dilema, I have about 300 US Doolars to spend for my memory (about 800 US for my whole upgrade).

Im thinking on many thinks, but I cant really think on the best upgrade I could do.

I was thinking on getting E6400 + ASUS P5B or Gigabyte DQ6 motherboard and the Team Xtreem 4-4-4-12 memory (I have seen all the way Team Group has gone those years and it seems to be a good choice).
Even I live in México and my only place to buy them is with Tankguys (which is being sold at 307 dollars) I would like to know your opinions about the upgrade.

Mainly, Im just changing my Motherboard+CPU+Memory DDR.

So, as Ive said, I was thinking on E6400, but I could go for E6600 also.
I think the P5B is my main option. I really dont like the famous e-680i board, and I have been waiting a long time for the DFI ICFX-3200 and it could have been released december 15th (although the availability would have been to hard to win) and right now its not released yet.

So, thinking on getting the ICFX-3200 was the mainly point of going for a E6400 (CPUs are really easy to change and they usually dont fail) because of the budget.

Now, that Im not thinking on the ICFX-3200 anymore (at least until its released... who knows when... maybe I will think about it in 1 or 2 months) I can aford the E6600+ASUS P5B Deluxe).

The last thing is the memory, as Ive said, I was thinking on the Team Xtreem from tankguys or maybe going for the OCZ URBAN SOS memory (highest 6400 rated memory from OCZ I think).
Also, thinking about the OCZ support, which is one of the best, compared to the Team Group support.

Another memory is making my eyes roll (the one you have). I heard its difficult to get the Cellshock 6400 memory here (German brand) and the price is really high (Although, comparing it with the competition from Team Group, the prices seem to be similar).

So, finally I think Im getting the P5B-D+E6600+Xtreem 4-4-4-12.

Do you think It would be the best way to upgrade? Or maybe I should go for e-680i or DFI ICFX-3200 and get an E6400 CPU (Paired with Xtreem memory, since I really cant afford Cellshock memory).?


Thanks for your reply, even this is not completely related to memory, but with a full upgrade, but taking the best path (specially for motherboard and CPU) for memory OCing is also very important (actually, The best thing I think I should afford is the motherboard and memory (leaving the CPU at last becuase the easiness to change it and they usually dont fail).

 

Ok, and if ClockGen doesnt seem to pick my RAM frequency and only picks FSb and CPU but doesnt let me even change it.

Also, in BIOS lowest setting for memory latency is 3-3-3-9..?

 

@Kain
<-- See my specs


FSB @ 480
vcore @ 1.4v
rest @ auto

cpuz: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=148350

 

Juke, thanks for the pics... but nothing impressive really.
OC iun CPU is ok, since its an E6300, but ou can do more.

Many ASUS P5B can do more than 500 FSB easily.

And, what voltage are you using with your Xtreem memory? Timings seem to high for just 480. I bet you can do much better than that.

Keep working, and again, thanks for the pic.

Greetings.

 

Yes, but not most. But that's why I'm telling you to go for them.

I just set them all @ auto, even the timings. No time for oc tests right now. But my mems are stable @ 1140

 

I'm not familiar with your board, I've never used one so I don't know what options you have available to you. If those are the lowest values you see (when you hit enter and the list of options appears) for CAS-tRCD-tRP-tRAS then yeah, those are the lowest timings you can set in the BIOS. You won't be seeing 2-2-2 figures because this is DDR2 rather than DDR1 and given that you've an Intel board you may not have the flexibility of other enthusiast boards.

 

Hi Kain, how are you? Yeah I felt it was time to update a little since I now have a DDR2 based system and am reasonably upto date. My interest in this stuff has also returned somewhat.

Firstly I would go for an E6600. I myself had to make a similar decision. I went for the E6600 over the E6400 because the price wasn't much more and I knew if I got an E6400 to save money that I would end up getting an E6600 later on. I always prefer to get fully fledged models rather than cut downs. In this case I didn't want the cut down cache of the E6400, and preferred the 4MB cache of the E6600. Although the performance gain is minimal, it's a mental thing I guess. The multi is also nicer, but you know this already.

Next, the mainboard. The P5B Deluxe is excellent of course. The current reference based 680i's are very expensive because Nvidia charges motherboard manufacturers nearly double that of Intel to purchase and use their chipset. The prices are then passed along to the end user. For me personally, the price difference is not worth it at all and I would say only if you're looking to go SLI or simply have money to burn would you go for a 680i based board. There are unique, rather than reference, 680i boards around or coming out from various manufacturers but that will only add to the price. The Asus Striker Extreme and IN9 from Abit are retailing here at £250, the EVGA 680i is just under £200. The same kind of pricing applies to the RD600 boards as well. Pre-orders for the DFI ICFX3200 are more than the EVGA 680i for example. Motherboard prices are becoming insane.

The DFI's are obviously going to appeal to a lot of people just because of the manufacturer and the reputation. However I don't know a release date, let alone full availability (availability probably isn't great in Mexico unless you can ship from the US?) and also I personally am never one to rush out and buy the latest products and risk ending up being a beta tester while new BIOS' are released to fix initial problems. I tend to wait until the bugs are ironed out before I purchase. You could always sell your current board and pick up a DFI or similar later on if they turn out to be great boards. I'm sure they will be.

The CellShock I think is only available in Europe at the moment. That might have changed but last time I checked that was the case. There are however webshops like www.overclockers.co.uk who will ship to the US and various other countries, but our prices are expensive compared to over there. Team's support's is poor, and that would put me off buying from them. Next to that the OCZ Special Ops PC6400 seems nice. There's no definite info that I can see on the ICs but they seem to behave like D9. There are some reviews around, but you've probably looked at those already. If you bought an E6600 with the 9x multi, you wouldn't need to push much over 400-450FSB tops really before the CPU maxed out. The timings on the OCZ will likely hold all the way, and might even tighten a little if you're lucky.

Anyway, overall right now I would go for P5B Deluxe, E6600, OCZ Special Ops PC6400. The RAM is a little unproven compared to the Team but they look decent and Team's support really puts me off. I also know you've got a decent water cooling setup, so getting a 965 board like the P5B-D seems like the way to go. It's cheap, hits high FSB's so you can max the CPU, and also getting a 975x board would likely limit your FSB and thus CPU clock. Much after 420FSB might be hit and miss. And then the 680i and RD600 boards are freaking expensive for what they are and right now I don't feel that they are worth it unless you want a multi-GPU setup or just have cash to burn. If you decided to go with the Team Group RAM then that would work too of course. That's the part I'm not so decided on, but with an E6600 and a 9x multi you don't really need the RAM to be fantastic (though the OCZ seems quite ok) unless you want to run 4:5 instead of 1:1.

My thoughts, lots of them too. Haha.

 

So DDR2 cant go on 2-2-2 at all or just since its Intel one?

 

Well, some DDR2 can run 2-2-2, but only at very low frequencies (400-500MHz area). I tend to disregard those because it doesn't really apply to any C2D owners who are usually working in the 800Mhz+ area.

 

Ok, so I should aim somewhere at 3-3-3-11, as its most typical ive seen, after 3-3-3-8 layout?

 

Sure, shouldn't be a problem at 533MHz. It doesn't really matter what tRAS you set tbh. A couple of the tRAS values will perform better than others, but it's so minimal you would only notice it in dedicated bandwidth benchmarks and even then it'd be a tiny boost. The main thing with tRAS is that too tight and it will limit your overclock, however you're not overclocking and pushing your RAM to the limit, and also the lowest value you can set is a 9 which is really just fine and not too tight at all.

 

Hi WildStyle. Its nice to see your interests where hidden somewhere inside you...


Now, many thinks to say I have, si, lets begin with the easiest, which is the CPU. Well, it seems that many people stays in the 6400-6600 Dilema, as you´ve already said, Im always looking for the E6600, also just because the multi and the double cache.
As I was thinking (I think I posted earlier), i was thinking on the possibility of getting an E6400 just if I went for an 680i motherboard, o the RD600.

So, I think the CPU decition has been done (E6600). Thanks for the support there.


Now, talking about Memory, but forst, let me tell you that Mexico is awfull in prices, and usually, the people is so ignorant, that even knowing many brands and what to go for, they will still pay about 400 US dollars for a 6800 Ultra (thats enough, right?).
But well,I have many friends from USA, and They usually ship me everything I buy in newegg, zipzoomfly etc etc, so, the availability in this case shouldnt be a problem.

Team Group memory is calling me a lot (So much, I... can.-not... resist http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?referrerid=20037&t=123710 LOL), but yes, I have read all OCZ Urban OPS reviews out there (pretty much different reviews and OCing gains on each one, which I think differ in the person who OCs it, and not exactly on the capabilities of them... Ej: OCing with 3dgameman... and OCing with Madshrimps ).

OCZ Urban OPS OCed very well (also Xtreem memory) but as you´ve said,
when going for an E6600 I will not use a very very high en Extreme FSB (I want 1:1) with my WCing setup (maybe 450 FSB FOR 4GHZ) Unless it meets my Single Phase Cooling unit :eyebrows: .

But, for normally 24/7 daily use, it wont be needed (and it would be a mess), so as High FSB is not used really (not anything OCZ or Team memory cant easily reach) I would like to go for the Team Group Memory.
I know OCZs support is excellent but not even one review has demonstrated OCZ Urban OPS memory working at lower latencies (and OCing too), and Team Group lets shows something like this:

3-3-3-X:
Intel:
DDR800 :: 3-3-3-8 :: 2.45v
DDR820 :: 3-3-3-8 :: 2.55v
DDR830 :: 3-3-3-8 :: 2.60v

4-4-3-X:
Intel:
DDR850 :: 4-4-3-4 :: 2.00v
DDR890 :: 4-4-3-4 :: 2.10v
DDR950 :: 4-4-3-4 :: 2.25v
DDR990 :: 4-4-3-4 :: 2.40v
DDR1015 :: 4-4-3-4 :: 2.45v
DDR1040 :: 4-4-3-8 :: 2.60v

I was also wondering about the voltages... Im not thinking about going above 2.4v (p5b max is 2.45?), but 4-4-3-4 timings paired with 990-1100mhz would be nice.

So, I will finally take my decition when buying all the things. OCZ offers me excellent perfomance and support for 20 dollars less than Team Group (which offers more than excellent perfomance, but lets forget the support).



Finally, about the motherboard.... I think the ASUS P5B-Deluxe it is... I can get it for 150 US new brand and sealed (from a friend) and maybe... if later, DFI ICFX-3200 seems to work well and to worth the change I will do it.

Neither do I want to be a BETA tester suffering for all the BIOS incompatibility, RAID, or some changes that arent coming till the next BIOS release (Lets wait the Motherboard to be more mature).

As I´ve said, I dont like 680i boards (not even one of them) and Im not a multi GPU fan, as Im not really a gamer (University consumes a lot of time), and I usually prefer to go for a single (bang for the buck) card and then changing it for another better than going for SLI or CF (I think you can buy a better performing card with the price of the 2 cards you wanted for SLI or CF, the inly problem should be selling the card you already have... but here in México, thats not a problem LOL).

So, I think for now, it stays as: E6600 (At least, I can afford it, but I have a Q?, you said you payedalmost the same from E6600 to E6400, where did you get it?)
ASUS P5B-Deluxe (just wondering about the undervolting problem when thinking on my single phase unit)

And Memory.... doesnt matter... they both are 2 good chioces and I wil be testing one of them and reporting issues here.


Greeting

PSDT: Could you show me some nice CellShock results? :eyebrows:
Thanks

 

Good choices and good reasoning behind it all.

As for your questions, the E6600 was only £50 more than the E6400 at the time. £50 is 100 USD, but things are much more expensive here. Something else that costs £50 is the X-Fi Xtreme Music OEM, to give you an idea of our pricing. The CPU was bought from www.scan.co.uk.

CellShock results, erm, I would suggest looking at XS, their main memory section and the general memory section. The reason being these sticks I have are pretty rubbish. They will not tighten at all @ 400MHz and so I'm still running 4-4-4. I can tighten the tRP to 3 without memtest errors, however SuperPI fails quickly. And as for CAS & tRCD, hundreds of memtest errors. So yeah, not that impressed. I'm quite tempted to sell them and get replacements that will run tighter timings, but at the moment the money's going on other things.

 

Ok, so, the price differencie is the same in my case ( For one moment, I though you got the E6600 at E6400 price).

So, not really done with Cellshock memory?

I have read all XS reviews before. I just wanted to get another point of view, but there is no problem.

Just the only question you did not response... is 2.45v de DDR2 max from P5B-Deluxe?

Thanks for your help mate.
I will go to vacations and probably not post anymore until the next year, so Merry Christmas and Happy new year (with a magical song behind it...)

 

Yes 2.45v is max, however there are vmods and also Hipro's DDR maximiser as well.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111156

http://www.hipro-tech.com/products.html

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you too. Have a good one. :cheers:

Let me know how you get on with these new components once you return.

 

Yes, I already know about v-mods, but I suffered a dead (the same motherboard, ASUS P5B-D with a past voltmod when trying to get my mem to 2.7v).

It was well cooled and working, and suddenly, I turned it off and it never awakened again...

This was with a friends motherboard. Anyway, I will be considering Hipros DDR Maximizer (I will miss Lanparty Ultra-D volts (I know RD-600 supports up to 3v in BIOS)).


Thanks, and so lets enjoy those days.
I will post hardware results in January.
See ya.