Guide to RAM

[mb]

I got you now joner.

And yes, I can only agree that this site/forum is excellent with helpful members who are actually helping and not just showing off their knowledge/skills.

[jonerkinsella]

yes my 3500 llpro corsair is rocking.i have it at 440mhz and its at 2,3,2,6 timings (cpu fsb 220mhz @3.3gig.
ive noticed a big improvement in bf2 .
cool.

[WildStyle]

Good stuff.

[Busta]

Great read and advice WildStyle, top job.
Just to re-iterate a point you mentioned a page or so back in regards to tRAS.
I have GeiL Ultra-X (BH5) rated @ 2,2,2,5 when they were in my last MB (Asus A8V) I found that a tRAS setting of 9 was better than 5. According to memtest86 my memory bandwidth was 1900mb/s+ @ tRAS =5 and near 2100mb/s @ tRAS = 9
So the lowest setting isn't always the fastest, as WildStyle has pointed out.
I've still got the same memory, tho haven't yet tested which is the best tRAS setting with my new MB (Abit KN8 Ultra)

[WildStyle]

Cheers for the positive feedback.

It's good to hear you're into that sort of stuff.

[dragonling]

to wildstyle thanx for this thread.. just what i needed
all the info in one read
i just fin testing my cpu/mem/gfx in a nice oc mode
amd64 3000@ 2339.3 khx kingston @ 2.5 2 2 5 (212.7) gt 6800 @ 400 x 1100
this all on std cooling.

the kingston oc's badly, i got to 214 fsb on 2 2 2 5 and that was the max with 2.8v(mobo max) then dropped the cas to 2.5 till i got to 212.7, so i guess my mem is stifeling my cpu max clock..

i had an extra pair of khx 512's but when i installed the extra dual channel ram onto my mobo (a8v delux) my fsb on the ram went to 100... either pairs of memory runs a max of 214 fsb b 4 errors) cpu clocked @ 260mhz.

after reading your posts im thinking that the reason the 2 pairs of ram run @ 100 is cos my chipset (via k8t800 pro) has difficulty utalising the high end memory.

yea im gonna upgrade to a pci-x some time soon but not right now
im running fear at acceptable levels. it is really memory intensive tho.

so the big Q what is better
4 x 512 low latency (preformance memory) 2.2.2.5 or
2 x 1024 performance memory lowest ive seen r 2.5 3 3 7

logic says the 512's will out perform the 1g's but i could b horridly wrong
many thanx

[WildStyle]

Hi dragonling, thanks, I'm glad you found the thread useful.

A couple of questions about your components.

Firstly, which model of KHX PC3200 are the ones you're using? (I assume it's PC3200? Let me know if it's not).

KHX 3200
KHX 3200K2
KHX 3200AK2
KHX 3200ULK2

And also, what core is your CPU?

[dragonling]

i believe its the khx 3200ulk2 (512 x 2) low latency 2.2.2.5 @ 400fsb
and im running a nice venice core

[WildStyle]

Alrighty, so if that's correct you've TCCD based modules. You need to loosen both the tRCD and tRP to a value of 3. 2 is too tight. Generally speaking TCCX will run 2-2-2-x upto ~220MHz and 2-3-3-x upto ~240MHz.

With all four modules in your board, set the command rate in your BIOS to 2T before inserting the additional two. Then, it should run at 200MHz when all four are used simultaneously. If it doesn't by default, you can manually set it.

As for 4x512 vs. 2x1024, 2x1024 is better. The trouble with 1GB modules is the density, so slower timings and lower attainable frequencies are a compromise that you have to make if you decide to go down that route. There are 2-3-2-5 PC3200 2GB sets available now though, and the benefit from that additional RAM capacity certainly outweighs the slightly slower timings. Running 2x1GB also means you can run 1T rather than 2T, and it also means, providing you buy appropriate 1GB modules, that overclocking will be easier since as long as you have a Venice/San Diego core (which you do) 2x1GB modules will overclock better than 4x512 because the memory controller will be under less strain.

[dragonling]

thanx wildside for the info..
i have tried the 2t settings in all flavours, (auto , enabled, disabled) before installing the memory.. same as be for tho 100 fsb on memory. i checked the cpu\memoty and manually set it to 1:1 still no 200 fsb, in desperation i installed a costomers ocx gold 256 x 4 and hence the same issue, 1 pair will run @ 200, 2 pairs @ 100.... i checked the slots too, as in 2 in a1+b1 then 2 in a2+b2 and they work fine as i pair @ 200 fsb...
the conclusion...... buy a pair of 1G's

so b 4 i look for memory where do i find a chip man. site on the specs of chips that are good quality?

as to the OC on the king's when i set cas to 2.5 the fsb:ram changes in cpuz from cpu/9 to cpu/11 therefore giving me a lower mem fsb.
ive tried to get the memory to go above 214 but no luck dropped the tRCD & tRP to 3 then to 4 still no go.
im gonna try dropping the cas to 3 and c how far the cpu will go b 4 getting hot or giving errors.. she runs stable @ 260 through all benchies i throw at her.... doom 3 , halo, farcry, battelfield1942, fear, riddeck, hl2.....BUT any MICROSOFT games eg.. ds2,aoe 3, stronghold 2...flight sim 04... i run will crash within 5 min of gameplay....go to stock settings on mobo and things r peachy... whats this?????? bill gates FIXIN things in the software to try prevent ppl OCing????
oh BTW these are org games on cd... i just used the no-cd for conviniance...(err spelling)

one more Q ... i herd that the opty's r really smokin in game play as well as OCing, asus makes no note of my mobo even been compatable with an opty. is there anyware i can look if the via k8t800 pro will c an opty.
i know i can run a dual core 64... but a dual core opty OCied mmmmm

[zenkmander]

I just got a pair of 1024 Patriot value sticks at DDR400. For some reason, though, it's not letting me run at 1T. I have a MicroATX motherboard, could that be the problem? Odd thing is, the old memory I had (512 Kingston+512 PQi, both value) ran at 1T. Is there something I'm missing?

Also, I know this may be asking too much, but how would I go about finding the default timings for my memory? My motherboard doesn't seem to detect it; it has the option to change the timings, but doesn't show the originals.

I have a Pentium 4 Prescott at 3.0 and I can't seem to achieve 3.3 with stock timings/speed of my memory. I've tried lowering the overall speed to 333 and then OC from there, but that's not working either. It'd really help if I knew all of the factory-set timings, that way I can lower and raise them to my benefit.

Any help is appreciated.

[WildStyle]

Some of the better 2GB kits right now include the G.Skill PC4000HZ, Corsair XMS PC4000PT, OCZ Gold PC4000, OCZ EB Plat PC4000 & Corsair XMS PC3500LL Pro. The ICs will be either Samsung UCCC or Infineon BE-5 at this moment in time. They're both voltage intolerant, yet the UCCC requires looser timings then the BE-5. At the moment I would say if you can find the EB Plat from OCZ then get them. The absolute best modules will do 275-280, with most ~260. Just pray they play ok in what seems to be a finicky mobo of yours. Check out some reviews of the products mentioned above.

As long as your BIOS supports the Venice/San Diego/Manchester/Toledo cores, it will support the Opterons too. They won't be officially supported but they aren't by any manufacturer.

[WildStyle]

Originally Posted by zenkmander

I just got a pair of 1024 Patriot value sticks at DDR400. For some reason, though, it's not letting me run at 1T. I have a MicroATX motherboard, could that be the problem? Odd thing is, the old memory I had (512 Kingston+512 PQi, both value) ran at 1T. Is there something I'm missing?

Also, I know this may be asking too much, but how would I go about finding the default timings for my memory? My motherboard doesn't seem to detect it; it has the option to change the timings, but doesn't show the originals.

I have a Pentium 4 Prescott at 3.0 and I can't seem to achieve 3.3 with stock timings/speed of my memory. I've tried lowering the overall speed to 333 and then OC from there, but that's not working either. It'd really help if I knew all of the factory-set timings, that way I can lower and raise them to my benefit.

Any help is appreciated.

So what happens when you try to run 1T? It doesn't POST or it hangs.. ? Or the option is not present at all?

Is that stuff the Patriot Signature stuff or something else? It may not even be rated for 1T. I don't know much about Intel but your memory controller may also be having a hard time with the density. Are you able to try the modules in another PC?

To find your SPD timings, is there no option in the BIOS to set all the RAM timing related options to Auto? or.. By SPD? Alternatively you may be able to check from within Windows by seeing the SPD tab in CPU-Z. Though, it could of course be misreading the SPD. If you want to be sure, you should check the product details on the manufacturers site or a retailer to see what timings the modules are rated for by default.

If you have attempted to run a divider yet you still can't increase your CPU clock speed then the memory is not the limiting factor.

[zenkmander]

It hangs after it POSTs when I try to run 1T. And yes, it is Patriot Signature. Nah, I haven't tried them in another PC yet.

Yeah, I can set everything to SPD in the BIOS, but I don't know if that changes the timings area. You see, the place in the BIOS where you can change the timings is grayed out if you have 'Auto by SPD' enabled. I honestly can't tell if those grayed out numbers are the memory defaults or just the BIOS defaults, since it was the same with my old memory. And yeah, I ran a divider by running the memory at 333 instead of 400, then OCing 500 MHz so that the memory would reach 384. It hung after POSTing again. Do you think it's just a motherboard problem instead?

[WildStyle]

According to the product info your RAM is rated 3-4-4-8 @ PC3200, but nowhere (that I can find) does it say the command rate. So it could either be your mobo, or simply the fact that the modules are not rated for a 1T CMD rate in the first place. I can't know for sure as I can't find any details..

By SPD would be the memory defaults, as the chipset reads the timings from the modules themselves and sets them for you when by SPD/Auto is selected. However the SPD could be misread.

Since your system hung on a divider, it could be the mobo not liking the FSB OC or it could be that your CPU is maxed out. Again, I don't know much about Intel or their overclocking ability so not sure what's expected from that particular CPU in terms of MHz, but I know they're locked so unfortunately you can't lower the multi. If you could, you'd be able to lower the multi to take any possible clock speed limitation out of the equation. Then, you'd see if the mobo simply doesn't like the FSB you're trying to run.

[zenkmander]

Alright, thanks a bunch. I have a feeling it's my motherboard, especially since it offers very, very limited capability in terms of overclocking. A couple minutes ago I set the divider to 333 for the memory and overclocked 400 MHz on the CPU, thus raising the memory speed to about 364. I ran memtest on an Ultimate Boot CD and it got thousands of errors in the first ten or so minutes. This is on 2T command, as well.

Maybe it's both the RAM and the motherboard. I'm thinking of getting a new motherboard anyway, along with some heatspreaders. Hopefully that'll help. Only downside to that is having to reinstall everything from scratch.

[WildStyle]

Good troubleshooting.

In that case it certainly does sound like it's your motherboard, at least as far as having underclocked RAM yet still receiving errors, more than likely associated with the mobo not agreeing with the FSB you're trying to run.
As for the 1T/2T thing, I guess you'll find that out if/when you purchase a new board.

N.B. Heatspreaders?

[zenkmander]

What exactly is N.B. ? And yeah, heatspreaders for the RAM. That's correct, right?

[WildStyle]

N.B.

An abbreviation for the Latin phrase nota bene, meaning “note well.” It is used to emphasize an important point.

My views on heatspreaders are written in the guide. I'll say no more.

[zenkmander]

Ah. Well, my old sticks had some copper ones that I purchased separately and they overclocked well. Might just be that those were unique, though.

[WildStyle]

Did you perform a side by side comparison of overclocking ability with and without spreaders in place?

[zenkmander]

Nope! They were probably just unique or something in overclocking potential.

[WildStyle]

Anyways, good luck with it all. If for whatever reason you want some assistance or advice I'll likely be around (unless it's the end of January).

[G L]

Originally Posted by WildStyle

Some of the better 2GB kits right now include the G.Skill PC4000HZ, Corsair XMS PC4000PT, OCZ Gold PC4000, OCZ EB Plat PC4000 & Corsair XMS PC3500LL Pro.

So Ballistix doesn't make the list? I'd heard someone mention problems (perhaps with DFIs), that so?

[WildStyle]

They don't make the list simply because of the huge amount of problems people are experiencing with them. Many, many people are having to RMA their sets 3-4 times to get a pair that work for more than a month without failing. Then again, some people like myself chose not to receive another Ballistix set because of the inconveniance, and simply received a refund. I have gone back to 1GB for the time being and will move back to 2GB after Xmas at some point. If I'd have known of these issues with the Ballistix before-hand, I wouldn't have bought them. Maybe it is an issue with the DFI boards, but I don't see why it would be. The majority of people using the modules are on DFI boards though, because they're the most popular among overclockers (and wannabes), yet it's obviously difficult to see if they're the root of the problem as not many use Asus or MSI boards etc. I'm sure if there was an issue with the Ballistix and the DFI boards that it would've been realised by now, but so far I haven't heard anything. I also know you're a bit bitter at DFI due to problems with your NF3 939 boards.. IIRC, but that board was never really a focal point for the company and as such is underdeveloped. If you want a bit of "light" reading, there is a link in the Guide to a thread at DFI-Street discussing the 1GB Ballistix modules and their sudden death syndrome. But all in all, can't say I'd recommend them, even though they OC very well indeed, it's just not practical having RAM that's gonna die in such a short time and cause the consumer a headache.