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  (#76)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-28-2004, 17:07 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

well, i think so. But maybe some of the guys with TRUE Quadro clones could also run specviewperf 7.1 with 16x AA - this would show up the differences....It would be interesting to see, HOW high their UGS-03 will be with these settings!
Rui, could you plz. set 16x AA , texture sharpening and 8x Anisothropic filtering on your RivaTuner's OPEN GL settings and run Specviewperf?

Last edited by Bluefirexp; 06-28-2004 at 17:12.
   
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Old
  (#77)
NxCPU
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Default 06-28-2004, 17:53 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

Quote:
Originally posted by NxCPU :
BTW, looks like the Palit cards are the safest bet :


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bluefirexp :
Palit.FX5900XT.128MB.Rev.01.rom - p177h-4n
Palit.FX5900XT.128MB.Rev.02.rom - p177h-4n
Palit.FX5900XT.128MB.Rev.03.rom - p177h-4n
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rui0317 :
BTW , Unika 5918FXL 5900XT was made by Palit , not the reference PCB design .

http://www.unika.com.cn/includes/product.php?id=453
I'm taking this back.
Because I checked the above link to Unika and it is a completely different card.
It just does not look like the one rui0317 posted pictures of here :
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....0&pagenumber=5.

So I started digging around the site a bit.
And found this menu link http://unika.com.cn/products/product_albatron.php (fourth menu option in the top menu, then third menu option in the dropdown).
Second option in the dropdown is http://unika.com.cn/products/product_unika.php
Both FX5900 family links from these pages lead to http://www.unika.com.cn/includes/product.php?id=453

But the sixth option in the dropdown is http://unika.com.cn/products/product_xyg.php
And the FX5900 family link from there leads to http://unika.com.cn/includes/product.php?id=449 A look-a-like of the pictures posted by rui0317 here : http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....0&pagenumber=5 (first picture) Notice the name of the pictures "unika_xiaotyaog_5918fx-01.jpg".
xyg = xiaotyaog ? 5918fx not 5918fxl.

So maybe Unika is the one manufacturing cards under their own name, and also for Albatron and XiaotYaog ?
It just makes me wonder where Palit fits in to the story.

BTW, there is a nice FX 5900XT roundup review with many pictures here : http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...110&cid=3&pg=1

Last edited by NxCPU; 06-29-2004 at 12:42.
   
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  (#78)
rui0317
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Default 06-28-2004, 18:20 | posts: 397 | Location: China

Quote:
Originally posted by Bluefirexp
well, i think so. But maybe some of the guys with TRUE Quadro clones could also run specviewperf 7.1 with 16x AA - this would show up the differences....It would be interesting to see, HOW high their UGS-03 will be with these settings!
Rui, could you plz. set 16x AA , texture sharpening and 8x Anisothropic filtering on your RivaTuner's OPEN GL settings and run Specviewperf?
of course i will do that , after i go home . after ten days, for job reason .

Quote:
So maybe Unika is the one manufacturing cards under their own name, and also for Albatron and XiaotYaog ?
It just makes me wonder where Palit fits in to the story.
"xiaoyao" G Turbo 5918FX made by Albatron :
http://unika.com.cn/includes/product.php?id=449

"supei" 5918FXL made by Palit :
http://www.unika.com.cn/includes/product.php?id=453

"UNIKA" put his name on those card and sell them , we call this "OEM"

Last edited by rui0317; 06-28-2004 at 23:36.
   
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  (#79)
AlecRyben
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Default 06-28-2004, 18:27 | posts: 7,776 | Location: Utopia Planitia, Mars

The main problem with FSAA is that it disables the hardware overlays, a big no-no if you use Maya or Houdini.
   
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  (#80)
augie
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Default 06-29-2004, 00:40 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
Originally posted by NxCPU
BTW, looks like the Palit cards are the safest bet :
The Unika 5918FXL (L) card failed the UGS test. It's not a reference design, so it's not surprising that it failed. Apparantly this is manufacturered by Palit and resold by Unika.

The Unika 5918FX (not L) card link Rui posted is identical to his card which can be seen at http://www.pcpop.com/market/2004/5/18319.shtml
Apparantly they're both the same card made by Albatron, but are resold by Unika and Colorful.

That's my impression anyway.

Augie
   
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  (#81)
NxCPU
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Default 06-29-2004, 01:01 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

OK now I understand it is the other way round.
Unika does not manufacture the cards, but Albatron and Palit.

And yes the Unika 5918FXL failed, my mistake.

Last edited by NxCPU; 06-29-2004 at 01:04.
   
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  (#82)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-29-2004, 15:44 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

dang, now that Nvstrap works on the 6x.xx drivers, i tried to find the strings containing 8B C8 B8 00 00 01 in these drivers to make a SQ4 patch and see, whether 6x.xx are still protected. I was hoping for a protection hole like there was one with the 43.xx - 45.xx drivers, but the string 8B C8 B8 00 00 01 is completely GONE form these drivers!!
Seems NV did some HUGE changes
   
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  (#83)
augie
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Default 06-29-2004, 22:43 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
Originally posted by Bluefirexp
dang, now that Nvstrap works on the 6x.xx drivers,
Really? Sweet... A hardmoded card should work with those drivers then, right? Hmm... the possibilities...

A
   
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  (#84)
djiemsi
 
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Default 06-30-2004, 00:53 | posts: n/a

My configuration
CPU:
P4C (Northwood) 2.8Ghz@3.2Ghz (FSB @ 229 Mhz)
OS:
XP Pro
Mobo:
MSI 865PE Neo2
RAM:
2GB DDR PC3200 (3-3-3-8)
Video:
MSI 5900XT (128MB @ 2.8ns) softmodded to QuadroFX3000 with 45.28/RivaTuner2RC15/SoftQuad4/NVStrap (core:432/ram:786)
Storage:
2xWD 80GB 7200 rpm ATA100
Audio:
SB Live 5.1!

Run All Summary

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 24.95

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 143.4

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 129.1

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 27.57

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 40.66

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 46.21

(Vsync was off)

Why did I get a hudge score for ugs-03 in comparision of a lot of people here ?? It's cool, but I don't understand why everybody don't have the same kind of score

Do I have to enable 16x AA or Vsync ?
   
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  (#85)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-30-2004, 01:01 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

djiemsi, are you blind, this thread here is EXACTLY about this, about high ugs on SPECIFIC FX5900XT cards. Your question is EXACTLY described here in this thread, so are you posting wild around without reading?
   
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  (#86)
rui0317
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Default 06-30-2004, 01:19 | posts: 397 | Location: China

augie will interest in this ....
   
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  (#87)
NxCPU
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Default 06-30-2004, 02:25 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

Quote:
Originally posted by snowball on page 3 :
Everyone should read that:

NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 XT FAQ: All You Need to Know About It
Quote:
From the article :
1.6. For how long will we enjoy this happiness?
Here’s your fly in the ointment! Alas, the 5900XT will soon vanish from the product lists of graphics card makers. Such cards were necessary to throw away the remains of NV35 chips and NVIDIA even sacrificed the sales of the GeForce FX 5700 Ultra for a while to get rid of its top-end chips. Now that the 5900XT leaves computer shops, its place will be taken over by the less fast (!) 5700 Ultra and the new GeForce 6800/6800 Ultra GPUs will occupy the hi-end sector. Thus, it’s going to be difficult soon to find a 5900XT graphics card. If you’re still undecided – be quick in making up your mind!
I'm probably far off (again), but maybe they are also dumping NV35GL GPUs now the NV40 is here, and not just the NV35 GPUs.
(This holds only if there is a real difference between the two (NV35 and NV35GL) ofcourse.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by rui0317 :augie will interest in this ....
and the rest of the world probably.

Last edited by NxCPU; 06-30-2004 at 02:39.
   
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  (#88)
augie
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Default 06-30-2004, 02:46 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
Originally posted by djiemsi
Why did I get a hudge score for ugs-03 in comparision of a lot of people here ?? It's cool, but I don't understand why everybody don't have the same kind of score

Do I have to enable 16x AA or Vsync ?
You, my friend, have a SUCCESSFUL quadro mod! And with an MSI board to boot! This is exactly the question we are trying to decipher.

If you would, please download X-bios at http://www.3dchipset.com/bios/nvidia/flash/xbios520.php and post your bios information here. (Run it, click the arrow next to "open", and select "read from memory")
This will help us determine what cards are TRUE-QFX capable.

Could you post it in a format somethig like this?

---
MSI FX5900XT-VTD128 128MB/2.8NS

Device ID 0332

Vesa Product Name: NV35 p177h-4n
BIOS Version: 4.35.20.38.00

Signon message:
GeForce FX 5900XT VGA BIOS
MSIN8937MS.231
--------

So far that's TWO MSI boards that have succeeded and one that failed. There MUST be differences....

I have been able to find 2 SLIGHTLY different MSI cards on the web. Here is a picture.



Notice the slight difference? May mean nothing at all, but who knows. Also, the VIVO chip looks to be a different brand.

Anyway, can you look at this chart below and look at your MSI card and tell me how each part corresponds?



Sorry about the size guys!

Looking back in the thread, both versions of the Quadro FX3000 you guys posted pictures of had A, B3, C2, D1. In fact, I don't see a single card that has succeeded with C2. All of them have been C, (unless djiemsi's and FyNi's are C2, but I have not confirmed yet.)

I'm no electrical engineer, so this may all be stupid, but at this point I'm grasping at anything I can find.

Augie

Last edited by augie; 06-30-2004 at 03:40.
   
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  (#89)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-30-2004, 11:21 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

@augie

edit: i thought your bro's card didn't succeed, although it is C?

Last edited by Bluefirexp; 06-30-2004 at 11:51.
   
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  (#90)
augie
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Default 06-30-2004, 11:25 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
Originally posted by Bluefirexp
@augie

i thought your bro's card didn't succeed, although it is C?
Edit-
My bros is C... Rui's card is C2, and so are the gainwards that succeed AFAIK (just the picture on the chinese website, http://www.hardsalon.com/2004/3-31/102411.html I haven't asked a Gainward owner to check their card.) I'm pretty sure all that were successful were C2, except I do not know about the 2 MSI cards yet.
Edit-

I don't know what that little oval shaped canister thing is, but my bro's card has it. Now I have no idea if the canister is the cause of it, but what it tells me is that they are making more than one revision. So I assume there could be other differences we can't see.


[edit 1st pic I posted:]
Oops, I realized I labeled the top picture with A's instead of C's... I'll fix that

Last edited by augie; 06-30-2004 at 13:10.
   
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  (#91)
Leonid
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Default 06-30-2004, 11:50 | posts: 59 | Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

pic. A,A2,C2 - place quartz resonator for VIVO chip
pic A2(sq. chip blue) - DVI chip
pic D1 - 3 chips of dual MOSFET for voltage reg.
pic D2 - 2 - single MOSFET for voltage reg.

No Quadro specific components on pictures.
Need search differences 10k resistors placing

Last edited by Leonid; 06-30-2004 at 14:48.
   
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  (#92)
augie
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Default 06-30-2004, 12:30 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
Originally posted by Leonid
pic. A,A2,R2 - place quartz resonator for VIVO chip
pic A2(sq. chip blue) - DVI chip
pic D1 - 3 chips of dual MOSFET for voltage reg.
pic D2 - 2 - single MOSFET for voltage reg.

No Quadro specific components on pictures.
Need search differences 10k resistors placing
R2? What does that refer to? You mean C2? If C is a quartz resonator for VIVO, I don't understand why one MSI card has it but the other doesn't. They're both VIVO cards. But that would make sense for quadros.

Hmm... Well, I could get my bro to send me high res pics of his card, but I don't know if the others with working MSI cards would be up for that...

The mystery deepens...
   
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  (#93)
Leonid
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Default 06-30-2004, 14:51 | posts: 59 | Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

auqie
Yes R2 read as C2 (edited)
   
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  (#94)
Wesayso
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Default 06-30-2004, 18:48 | posts: 70

Quote:
Originally posted by NxCPU
I'm probably far off (again), but maybe they are also dumping NV35GL GPUs now the NV40 is here, and not just the NV35 GPUs.
(This holds only if there is a real difference between the two (NV35 and NV35GL) ofcourse.)

I've been reading this thread for a while to get the picture so I can buy me a 5900XT but you could be right on the money there, it could just be the difference in the core used...

If this line of cards is to get rid of these GPU cores, they might as well use the quadro GPU core as well...

I hope it doesn't work that way, maybe Augie is on to something but it would make sense...

What if; quadro GPU core and geforce GPU core only differ in the AA line department and both are beeing used to get rid of the NV35 GPU's in fabricating the 5900XT line...
There will be no way of telling wich card would act like a quadro if that is true
   
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  (#95)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-30-2004, 19:16 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

Hmm- guys, but if the difference is only the core, WHY only on XT cards? This doesn't make sense...
   
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  (#96)
NxCPU
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Default 06-30-2004, 19:32 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

Quote:
Originally posted by Bluefirexp
Hmm- guys, but if the difference is only the core, WHY only on XT cards? This doesn't make sense...
Without wanting to sound paranoid, but maybe because they are watching guru3d's forum (and others) and noticing that people mostly try to softmod GF FX 5900(U)/5950(U) (not XTs) ?
Or, after all who would buy an GF FX 5900XT, if everybody knows the word is that Quadro FX 3000 is based on the non-5900XT models.
Can you remember how surprised and excited rui0317 was ?
   
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  (#97)
Bluefirexp
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Default 06-30-2004, 19:40 | posts: 591 | Location: Stuttgart

ye NxCPU, you're right, THAT was paranoid!

cheers m8!
   
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  (#98)
NxCPU
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Default 06-30-2004, 19:55 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

Quote:
Originally posted by Wesayso
What if; quadro GPU core and geforce GPU core only differ in the AA line department and both are beeing used to get rid of the NV35 GPU's in fabricating the 5900XT line...
There will be no way of telling which card would act like a quadro if that is true
Hey, I was just guessing. It's only hypothetical.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bluefirexp
cheers m8!
Pleasure.

Last edited by NxCPU; 06-30-2004 at 19:58.
   
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  (#99)
augie
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Default 06-30-2004, 23:59 | posts: 58 | Location: California

Quote:
What if; quadro GPU core and geforce GPU core only differ in the AA line department and both are beeing used to get rid of the NV35 GPU's in fabricating the 5900XT line...
There will be no way of telling wich card would act like a quadro if that is true
I was asking about the hardmod on HSXD forum, Rui told me people are doing hardmodded 5900 and 5900xt's and getting high UGS scores. So you mean shipping XT's with the resistors moved <-- (like a quaro)?

Hmm... if one of the successful XT users pulled of his heatsink...

Augie

Last edited by augie; 07-01-2004 at 00:02.
   
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  (#100)
NxCPU
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Default 07-01-2004, 03:10 | posts: 55 | Location: NL

Quote:
From that same article/FAQ at xbitlabs :

1.1. What is NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 XT?
The NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 XT (hereafter referred to as “5900XT”) is a modification of the NV35 graphics core. Particularly, it is the cheapest, “value”, version.

From the point of view of NVIDIA’s reference specifications, the card’s belonging to the 5900XT series is defined by several parameters (some manufacturers may deviate from the specs):

the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 XT graphics core works at 390MHz frequency;
the PCB design is simplified compared to older models;
128MB of BGA-packaged DDR SDRAM with a cycle time of 2.8ns and a nominal frequency of 700MHz.

1.2. Why did this model go into production?
In all probability, NVIDIA is thus getting rid of its stores of NV35 chips before the launch of the GeForce 6xxx series. The price of the GeForce 5900XT was set very low from the start. Today, the price has reduced to being just a dumping one – this fact confirms the theory about the need to throw away the excess of unnecessary chips.

1.3. How does the 5900XT stand among other GeForce FX 59x0 chips?
The chip doesn’t differ at all, save for its marking (the letters “XT” are written in the top right corner of the protective cover/heatsink). Its recommended operational frequency is 10MHz lower compared to the non-Ultra 5900 chip, 390MHz instead of 400MHz (for notice: the GeForce 5900 Ultra works at 450MHz and the 5950 Ultra works at 475MHz). The 5900XT however clocks the memory at a much lower rate (700MHz against 850MHz of 5900/5900 Ultra and against 950MHz of the 5950 Ultra). This limitation is due to the fact that they use cheap memory chips with a cycle time of 2.8ns (i.e. rated for 714MHz). Besides that, a simpler and cheaper PCB design was specifically developed for the 5900XT – it’s not the NV35/38 reference design. I suppose that these things were made for the graphics card manufacturers to separate sharply 5900XT and 5900-based products.
At 1.1 there's mention of a "modification" of the NV35 graphics core.
But at 1.3 the writer states "The chip doesn’t differ at all, save for its marking (the letters “XT” are written in the top right corner of the protective cover/heatsink)."
So NVidia added the the letters "XT" afterwards, when it started dumping. But would they be so silly to leave the marking NV35GL and just add "XT", or not at all ?

"if one of the successful XT users pulled of his heatsink...".
Yes augie, I hope this too.
But on the other hand, I hope they don't.
Because it's too risky, and I want them to enjoy their luck as long as possible.
Also, if they do find NV35GL GPUs under their HSF, we have a worlwide lottery.
But then we would at least know.

Also the information about the PCB design at 1.3 is interesting.
But I'm undecided if it helps, or raises more questions.
Let's disregard the Device ID resistors for the moment.
Geforce FX 5900XT and Quadro FX 700 both have this same "simpler and cheaper PCB design".
Geforce FX 5900 and Quadro FX 3000 seem to share a similar PCB design between them. (Let's call it reference ?)
But Geforce FX 5900XT (simpler PCB), Geforce FX 5900 (reference PCB) can both be softmodded into Quadro FX 3000 (reference PCB).
Also, if the Quadro FX 700 has a NV35GL GPU on board (high ugs-03 score) as mentioned earlier in this thread, this would prove that the NV35GL GPU is able to run on the simpler PCB design.

It looks like the NV35GL GPU works on both the simpler PCB (Quadro FX 700, GF FX 5900XT with high ugs-03 score) and reference PCB (Quadro FX 3000).
The only cases where we have a low ugs-03 score after softmodding are GF FX 5900XT and GF FX 5900 with NV35 ?

It looks like the PCB design doesn't matter. (Excluding the Device ID resistors.)

Would the successful softmodders, be able to softmod their Geforce FX 5900XT into a Quadro FX 700 (with high ugs-03 score) ?
I didn't ask.

Last edited by NxCPU; 07-01-2004 at 03:18.
   
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