NVidia and Softquadro

[Bluefirexp]

One thing i don't understand is: why does NV update their Softquadro4 protection with every new driver set, while their other special protection has still not been overcome? I mean, why do they care, when it's anyway still impossible to make the Quadro work for GF 4 and FX series on 5x.xx drivers ? SQ4 is not enough, so it's really strange why they still write protections against it...

[loop29]

Cause it is maybe just part of the code and as long as nobody writes something that dissables functionality of this protection everything is allright. I think they just take this part of code to the next driver and just compile it with the updated part of the driver or new parts, I assume that it would produce more problems to remove it and why should they if it adds extra problems.

regards

[Bluefirexp]

no, i didn't mean: "why don't they remove SQ4 protection?".
I meant: "Why do they UPDATE SQ4 protection?"
This means: with every new RT release Unwinder updates the SQ4 scripts so that it's possible to patch for example the 52.16 drivers with SQ4. Of course this is not enough and so 52.16 can't be used for quadro-ing. But now we have 56.55 and SQ4 can't patch it! So NV again updated the SQ4 protection- but WHY?? It doesn't make a difference, coz there is still the other protection, so NV just wastes time?!...

[loop29]

Are you guys trying to make fun of me?? 42.51 or something is latest working driver for SQ4, what the hell you mean with updating SQ4? There is no sense in using SQ4 scripts on 42.xx and up.... but well if I´m wrong pls tell me what´s your point.

regards

I thought I should add some more: As far as I know the scripts for Geforce 4 were not updated anymore since 42.51, for FX it is another protection, I think they check hardwired id like Unwinder suggested. So I really don´t understand what you mean with updated SQ4 scripts, since there is no working script for Geforce 4 which I think has nothing to do with other protection introduced in Forceware drivers. So please tell me what is the lines in the sq4 script good for belonging to common script for 5x.xx. It just doesn´t make sense for me.

good day

[Unwinder]

Originally posted by Bluefirexp
no, i didn't mean: "why don't they remove SQ4 protection?".
I meant: "Why do they UPDATE SQ4 protection?"
This means: with every new RT release Unwinder updates the SQ4 scripts so that it's possible to patch for example the 52.16 drivers with SQ4.

Wrong point of view. I don't think that they update the protection (just fixed it for FX's after finding the 'hole' for Detonator FX), because it's pretty effective since 42.70 driver. SoftQuadro4 is just a NV_PBUS_DEBUG_1 / SPARE3 check overrider. Protection seems to be located in some other place (presumably directly in the OpenGL driver).

[Bluefirexp]

@Loop29:

you can check the SQ4 scripts in RT with and editor- you will see there are lines for 43.xx ...5x.xx drivers! So Unwinder is updating it all the time. So SQ4 patching works for higher drivers than 42.51 but it's not enough as we all know.
My question was: As there is new protection introduced in drivers higher than 42.51: why does NV still update also the SQ4 protection. I mean- if they wouldn't update it, there wouldn't be a need for Unwinder to add lines for 43.xx and 5x.xx drivers.

@Unwinder: i understand that they fixed the special protection you're talking about for FX cards. But they also still care about SQ4, coz like i said, 56.55 drivers are not SQ4-patchable again, that's what i don't understand...So why do they prevent me from applying SQ4 patch, although this patching wouldn't help me anyway?

[Unwinder]

Originally posted by Bluefirexp
But they also still care about SQ4, coz like i said, 56.55 drivers are not SQ4-patchable again, that's what i don't understand...So why do they prevent me from applying SQ4 patch, although this patching wouldn't help me anyway?

I don't think that they care about it, they simply upgrade their code. The script is not supposed to work always and it's not supposed to be forward compatible. It's targeted to specific ASM code which performs access to the NV_PBUS_DEBUG_1 register. As soon as the source (miniport) code is changed (even slightly changed), the compiler may generate abslutely different ASM code so the script will refuse to work. And it doesn't mean that they did something to prevent script installation.

[Bluefirexp]

Ahh, thx - i didn't think of that possibility...so it was a stupid question of mine, sorry!

[br0adband]

Originally posted by loop29
Are you guys trying to make fun of me?? 42.51 or something is latest working driver for SQ4, what the hell you mean with updating SQ4? There is no sense in using SQ4 scripts on 42.xx and up.... but well if I´m wrong pls tell me what´s your point.

Uhmmm... I am currently using the 45.28 Dets with my FX5900nu card, it's a Quadro FX 3000 according to everything I can find.

And I have the SPECPerf benches to back it up. Seriously. I don't know what you people are doing wrong but every Det release up to 45.28 works for me using RT and SQ4.

If you want copies of my modded drivers, just say the word and give me someplace to send 'em.



br0adband

EDIT: Silly me, I bet he was talking about the last driver you could use with Geforce 4 series cards. If that's the case, my bad, I apologize.

[br0adband]

After posting this I realized that most people don't seem to understand the actual function of Quadro cards.

Well, let me put it bluntly: They're not for you or me. Is that simple enough? I'm being totally serious here. If you're not making your money and paying the bills using a Quadro FX card (a REAL one not a softmodded card) then you/me/all of us just need to find something better to do with your/my/our time.

Nvidia is in business to make money. They sell professional level GPUs (the Quadro series) to companies that make videocards based on that chip. Those chips and the support that Nvidia offers need to WORK 24/7 and never fail. Downtime in a professional graphics studio, movie studio or anything else that needs a Quadro card is going to LOSE MONEY anytime they aren't producing something of value.

What does this really mean? Well, it means that the main reason Nvidia doesn't come out with new drivers for Quadros as often as they do for their retail products is fairly simple: Can you imagine some company like Industrial Light & Magic or Digital Domain having to upgrade THOUSANDS of PCs everytime Nvidia comes out with a new driver that might give, what, maybe 5 fps faster rendering times? It's ludicrous to think such a thing.

Quadros and their drivers are meant for the long haul serious work, not gaming, not fun stuff, but work, serious hardcore graphics intensive pure processing power.

Sure, I'd love to get better DX9 performance from this card of mine I'm using as a Quadro but a few fps isn't going to matter to me because it's fast as hell as it is.

Just my two cents here, not meaning to start a flame war but damn, people, get over it. Don't question Nvidia on why the 5x.xx series of drivers doesn't give you better framerates in some damned game on your *wannabee* softmodded Quadro. That's not what it was designed to do, so get over it.


EDIT: Look at it this way, suppose a company like the aforementioned ILM or DD decides to buy 2,000 new PCs (either company) and they need to get Quadro FX 3000's in them, the total cost would be in the neighborhood of what (figuring $2.5K for the PCs and a discounted price on the bulk Quadros of $1300 each) that's over $7.6 MILLION.

Ok, here's where it gets real: They *could* buy those machines with GF FX5900SE cards and then softmod every damned one of them to SoftQuadro FX 3000s - the FX5900SE's in bulk would be maybe $150 or so each, so now we have a total someplace around $5.3 MILLION, a considerable savings AND note that all the savings are coming directly from the loss of revenue due to not purchasing real Quadro FX 3000's.

You figure it out. Not only would they be screwing Nvidia and it's channel partners out of $2-2.5 MILLION in cashflow they'd also be generating several thousand support calls whenever something went wrong because of rendering and hardware issues. Remember, we saved some serious coinage buying the cheapy SoftQuadros but they're not real Quadros so they won't have 100% compatibility.

I personally think the time and effort Unwinder has put into RT and SQ4 rates him a Quadro FX 3000 myself, but Nvidia would probably disagree.



So the reason they (Nvidia) are still protecting their interests by defeating the SQ4 mods is that, if they just say 'to hell with it' and start releasing 5x.xx series drivers for Quadros it's going to cost them money.

They're not doing this just to stop you from boosting framerates in some game, they're doing it to stay in business.

Ok, my rant is done. Time to get back to my Quake 3 Arena gaming on this SoftQuadro FX 3000 of mine.



br0adband