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The truth about Catalyst 3.8... ???
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Monrad
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Default The truth about Catalyst 3.8... ??? - 10-24-2003, 23:28 | posts: 1,008

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1673/

I don't know... maybe I'll try reinstalling them. The problem is that I can't check my ATI temperature... but I don't think It'll be damaged. My monitor go out of range when using refresh rates that aren't supported... so... I don't think my monitor will be damaged.

I'll reinstall them and tell you what happens.
   
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Default 10-26-2003, 15:09 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

go check out the rage3d forums... THis issue has been done to death(and yes its all a load of bull).. The cat 3.8 doesn't kill monitors or fry cards. It may not be the best driver ATI has released so far, but it isn't going to kill your card or anything like that.
   
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Default 10-26-2003, 15:20 | posts: 1,638 | Location: MA, USA

but you must admit they added that cool feature that allows you to change the display and stuff ingame .... loooks phhhhattt AWSOME ATi
   
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Default 10-26-2003, 18:52 | posts: 1,008

I've been running 3.8 since yesterday. I've been playing Battlefield and I had no problems. Only when I press ESC to go to the main menu and then press ESC again to go back to the game I see a lot of grey polygons going crazy all over the screen, but that's not overheating or whatever. It's just a bug. After that happened, I restarted battlefield and play for hours. No problems at all.
   
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Default 10-27-2003, 11:51 | posts: n/a

call of duty demo hangs on me and the vpu settings tell me some error on 3.8
3.7 it ran smoothly...
   
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Default 10-27-2003, 16:22 | posts: 1,008

This is too weird.
I'd recommend you to uninstall latest catalyst with Driver Cleaner. Maybe all this errors are caused because of some trash form latest drivers.

As soon as I get any error I'll let you know.
   
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Default 10-27-2003, 19:21 | posts: n/a

There are two different issues here, higher temps and monitors being blown. I know for a fact that the 3.8's did heat up my card and caused massive system wide problems. I installed them the day they came out and had them removed the next day, before the firestorm over these had started. So I don't really care what some yuck-yucks at some tech rag say after doing what you could hardly call extensive tests. I guess it depends on your system, but for me the 3.8's are garbage and a danger to my system.
   
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Drumphil -- how do you know?
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Default Drumphil -- how do you know? - 10-28-2003, 18:05 | posts: 1,153 | Location: the "Springs", Colorado

To this point, 28 Oct 03, I have seen no statement from ATI concerning allegations that the Cat. 3.8's can harm video cards, specifically. Do you have a news story or a link?

Meanwhile a LOT of people have reported problems in forums all over the place, and it is unlikely that they are ALL delusional....
   
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Default 10-29-2003, 08:35 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

er, check out the real situation on the rage3d forums.. AFTER ALL THE RUMORS AND NOISE ABOUT THE ISSUE we traced it back to one person on a mission, who then started a bunch of thread screaming that ATI killed his stuff and that 3.8 was to blame..

The main reason we are seeing so much about it now it that everytime a noob has a problem and they are using cat 3.8 they think "hey cat 3.8 might have overheated or blown my monitor and they post with a title "cat 3.8 killed my (insert whatever)"", when they HAVE NO IDEA wether or not cat 3.8 has anything to do with it or not.. Then teh techies (like me) go in and help them sort out the real problem, and then wait for the next thread about cat 3.8, which actually has nothing to do with it..

We have gone over the issue thoroughly at rage3d, and when we asked for REAL PEOPLE who had ACTUALLY had a card fry, or monitor die, we got three responses, and they all turned out to be caused by other things.. And ATI have made a public statement saying that its all a load of bull.

Last edited by Drumphil; 10-29-2003 at 08:38.
   
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Default 10-30-2003, 23:09 | posts: n/a

damn now you are telling me .. lol ive reinstalled 3.7 cats .. well ill upgrade to 3.8 tomorrow
   
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ONE troublemaker? Now why would we doubt that...?
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Default ONE troublemaker? Now why would we doubt that...? - 10-31-2003, 03:41 | posts: 1,153 | Location: the "Springs", Colorado

Every propeller-head forum on planet Earth is peppered with numerous litanies and enumerations of problems that people had they had ONLY after loading the Cat. 3.8's. And now we're to understand that this was promulgated by ONE conspirator (oops, that was stupid...to have a conspiracy there must be at least two, I think)? I think not.

If the questions raised here at Guru of 3D do no invoke your curiosity, then go peruse Rage3D's Forum. At least count there were FORTY-THREE PAGES of raging debate about the 3.8's and what detailed descriptions of what many have alleged that these drivers have done to their video cards and/or monitors. I cannot find it in my heart or mind to think that they're all morons, or, involved in some great "anti-ATI" conspiracy.

In the meantime, there is nothing but stoic, stone-walled silence from ATI on one critical question: Do the Cat. 3.8's have any detrimental effect on Radeon 9-Series cards, or do they not? They reacted quickly to the issue about monitors, saying categorically that there is no effect there. Fine. Why will they not say one official word about the video cards?

We're waiting... and waiting... and waiting....
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 06:44 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

have you read anything nofool??.. they talked about the monitor thing and the gpu temperature thing in the same damn public statement..

You are saying "but what about all the n00bs yelling about this problem".. well, when people don't read everything properly, and so come to a wrong understanding of whats going on, then post a lot about it.. THEN YOU HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT A NON ISSUE.
Now the cat 3.8 drivers aren't the best made so far in my opinion, and they do have a few issues, but these are rendering issues, ot card killing ones.

Over at rage3d we had stacks of thread being started with complaints about the cat3.8 frying cards or monitors once word got round.. So its easy to look at all that and say there must be a problem.. Till you look into it further..

We had people starting thread titled "cat 3.8 fried my card!!!".... then the first sentence of the thread was "my heatsink fell off and the card fried.. could drivers have done this??"??? ARGH.. after starting a thread with the title blaming the drivers..
Then another "cat 3.8 killed my monitor"... then we find out the monitor died just before he installed the drivers.. ARGH AGAIN!!..

So after stacks of this, and every noob thinking that every time anything went wrong it was cat 3.8 overheating or killing a monitor, we started a thread "post here if 3.8 ACTUALLY killed your monitor or fried your card.. Then we waited.. we eventually got three people who believed this had happened, but in the end this problems were put down to other issues..

You may have also seen someones theory for why the ATI cards would kill a monitor "cause of mixed up refresh rate tables or something for the secondary monitor".. ATI said straight out that this isn't possible, cause they dont access the file in question at all.

Anyways, we are still waiting for one confirmed case of cat 3.8 killing someones card or monitor...

Last edited by Drumphil; 10-31-2003 at 07:05.
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 07:20 | posts: 1,662

Drumphil.....try decaf......

Man your blood vessels are going to explode! Well....I can't speak on the monitor issues with the 3.8's but I can speak on the rise in temps. There is a temperature rise about 6-7 degrees celcius.

I also checked out the rage3d forums. The catalyst 3.8 thread is filled with complaints. Not all of the responses were from noobs!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33715865

The first 10 pages and far beyond are filled with users that are not happy with these drivers. Some complain about heat issues, some complain about glitches while others are just downright ticked! I've also read the monitor issues at different tech sites and it's very hard for me to believe this is mass hysteria that started from an nvidiot. The most loyal of ATI customers are complaing as well and some of these people have an immense amount of computer knowledge.

Companies screw up all the time and never admit their faults if they feel it would be too costly for them. But I will say this.........If these people are 100% positive the ATI is at fault......we should soon see a class action lawsuit from many ATI users. If we don't .......well it just might be a load of bull.
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 08:10 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

yeah, there are plenty of issues with the cat 3.8 drivers, but i spend time pover there worknign throught the issues with people, and we still dont hav one confirmed card frying or monitor death that was definately down to teh cat 3.8 drivers.. There are issues with the new drivers. I use the cat 3.7s at the moment because they work better with tribes 1 (yes i still play it)..
But we when we started a thread saying "ok, no speculation , just post if your monitor or card was actually killed by cat 3.8", we got no positive responses.. We got stacks of people who thought that had happened, who of course had no idea whatsoever what had really happened..

And who are all the non noobs who had a card or monitor die.. They would have been all over us when we posted questioning the validity of all this.. So for all the noise made its hard to get anyone with any credibility to put their hand up and say "cat 3.8 caused this".. That tells you how valid all the threads of noobs arguing were.. When we put them on the spot we got no answer.... So unless things have changed since i last read the forums a day ago I think my position stands.. I'll go back and check again now.
edit: been back and checked again:
In fact most of the threads discussing this issue on rage3d are old news and dropping down the list rapidly.. Now that people are actually finding out that their monitors aren't dying, and their cards aren't frying, the speculation is dyign down. (actually they're off the front two pages of threads now).. And I had a look through some more of the massive discussions about it. damn painfull. All that came out of that was how little idea some people have about all this stuff..

Last edited by Drumphil; 10-31-2003 at 08:18.
   
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TheDigitalJedi
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Default 10-31-2003, 08:25 | posts: 1,662

Well if the "speculation" is dying down, that's a good thing. I would hate to see more controversy than we already have. Driver optimizations, Half Luck 2, Pixel $#!++er 2.0 performance issues, game companies coding their software to specifially run better on their card of choice and so forth and so forth.

It doesn't take long for this to become exhausting.
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 08:35 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

exhausting is right.. Now every time I help someone work through their GFX card problem I first have to explain why cat 3.8 didn't fry their card and monitor .. (assuming that cat 3.8 isn't the problem of course.. talking about people whos computer wont respond, or who have monitors that are playing up..)
Sigh, we even had one guy post with the title "cat 3.8 killed my monitor", WHEN HIS MONITOR WAS STILL WORKING FINE as it turns out".. WTF!!!KLFDMrmfhajslfh!!!11! I could strangle some people i swear.. anyways, enuf of me complaining.
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 08:49 | posts: 1,662

Would you happen to know the reason for the bug in UT2K3? Do you know if ATI will correct the issue with their next Catalyst release?
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 08:58 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

"Would you happen to know the reason for the bug in UT2K3? Do you know if ATI will correct the issue with their next Catalyst release?"

if its the bug other people have been pointing out with textures being lower quality..
People were saying this was because ATI wasn't filtering as well.. Well, it turns out that its a bug effecting 2 or 3 textures in the game, and is just incorrectly using the normal texture rather than the high detail one.. this is just for the few textures in question, and I believe this is now a known bug by ATI, and should fixed shortly..


Im pretty sure that turned out the be the story there... Can't remember where to link too, but if its the same problem you are talking about, then this is definately the explanation..

Last edited by Drumphil; 10-31-2003 at 09:40.
   
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Default 10-31-2003, 09:06 | posts: 1,662

I hope so......I'm looking forward to the next Catalyst release. UT2K3 is one of my favorite games.
   
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Monrad
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Default 10-31-2003, 14:13 | posts: 1,008

Quote:
Originally posted by TheDigitalJedi
Would you happen to know the reason for the bug in UT2K3? Do you know if ATI will correct the issue with their next Catalyst release?
Don't worry, ATI knows I don't know if they will correct the issue with the next cat release but I'm sure they are working on it.
   
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Default 11-01-2003, 08:26 | posts: 1,662

For those that are interested, here's a screenshot of UT2K3 on the 9800XT.
This is the "bug" I'm speaking of. Look at the leg and foot of the statue. I've been making these UT2K3 comparisons loooooooooooooong before EliteBastards started.

1280X1024
4X AA
16X AF



The bottom pic is a pic of UT2K3 on the 5900 FX Ultra. The detail is far better on the 5900FX Ultra.

1280X1024
4X AA
8X AF


Last edited by TheDigitalJedi; 11-01-2003 at 08:48.
   
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a k i
 
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Default 11-01-2003, 12:39 | posts: n/a

the bug is bumpmaping as this image shows.... ok so the bumpmaping is off for the ati card someone patch the game before the world gets pissed loL
   
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Default 11-02-2003, 08:42 | posts: 775 | Location: Australia

I believe that is one of the textures that has the glitch where it doesn't use the high detail texture.. This isn't a filtering issue.
   
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Default 11-04-2003, 10:04 | posts: 24 | Location: Belgium

Hmmm,...
i've been using 3.8 CATs for 2 weeks now, and i couldn't find any overheating issues yet. In fact, i couldn't notice any temp increase what-so-ever.
Neither did my monitor blow up in my face...
What i do notice, is that 3.8 is the 1st driver that gives me the sharpness i missed in earlier versions. Finally the images are sharp and crispy, as they should be.
I did lose ca 50 points in 3D Mark 2003, but i noticed no FPS drops in games. Au contraire, i found them to be more stable, and much less jumpin' up and down the FPS, wich results in more fluid game play.
I like 'm, ATI (or who-ever makes these drivers) is definitly going in the right direction... although slowly...

A thing that annoyed me a bit, is that some ppl are complaining ATI not testing their drivers thorroghly, while themselfs they are screaming from the rooftops that the driver sucks... 2 hours after release.

Comon guys, u really think ATI will release drivers that fries systems and blows up monitors? Even Bill Gates doesn't go THAT far to sell some extra stuff...
   
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Default 11-05-2003, 00:55 | posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally posted by Drumphil
have you read anything nofool??.. they talked about the monitor thing and the gpu temperature thing in the same damn public statement..

You are saying "but what about all the n00bs yelling about this problem".. well, when people don't read everything properly, and so come to a wrong understanding of whats going on, then post a lot about it.. THEN YOU HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT A NON ISSUE.
Now the cat 3.8 drivers aren't the best made so far in my opinion, and they do have a few issues, but these are rendering issues, ot card killing ones.

Over at rage3d we had stacks of thread being started with complaints about the cat3.8 frying cards or monitors once word got round.. So its easy to look at all that and say there must be a problem.. Till you look into it further..

We had people starting thread titled "cat 3.8 fried my card!!!".... then the first sentence of the thread was "my heatsink fell off and the card fried.. could drivers have done this??"??? ARGH.. after starting a thread with the title blaming the drivers..
Then another "cat 3.8 killed my monitor"... then we find out the monitor died just before he installed the drivers.. ARGH AGAIN!!..

So after stacks of this, and every noob thinking that every time anything went wrong it was cat 3.8 overheating or killing a monitor, we started a thread "post here if 3.8 ACTUALLY killed your monitor or fried your card.. Then we waited.. we eventually got three people who believed this had happened, but in the end this problems were put down to other issues..

You may have also seen someones theory for why the ATI cards would kill a monitor "cause of mixed up refresh rate tables or something for the secondary monitor".. ATI said straight out that this isn't possible, cause they dont access the file in question at all.

Anyways, we are still waiting for one confirmed case of cat 3.8 killing someones card or monitor...
It's people like you who give discussion forums a bad name. Only you, the enlightened master of technology can understand these issues, and anyone who dares disagree is a "noob." They're noobs, well you're a nob. I'm not a newbie, I've been building pc's for over 15 years, and I can definately say that 3.8 caused me some serious problems. Why, do you suppose all my problems went away miraculously THE SECOND I TOOK THE 3.8's OUT BITCH?
   
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