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WDDM 2.2 in Creators update and drivers
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Carfax
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Question WDDM 2.2 in Creators update and drivers - 03-15-2017, 21:14 | posts: 1,753 | Location: U.S

The most up to date Windows 10 preview build is 15058, and this is the first build which actually has the 1703 version number, which means this version is the closest thing we have to the actual final release.

Previous Windows 10 previews all used the 16xx version number. Anyway, I've noticed with this version that I'm seeing more hiccups and lag compared to previous builds, and I'm wondering whether that has anything to do with the current drivers not being fully optimized for the Creators release.

Creator's release will have WDDM 2.2, which will likely require newer drivers from both NVidia and AMD. If you may recall, last year when the Anniversary build launched, NVidia came out with specific Anniversary edition drivers.

So they may do something similar for the Creators release. The Creators update looks like it will be pretty significant as far as gaming goes.
   
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skacikpl
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Default 03-16-2017, 13:33 | posts: 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carfax View Post
So they may do something similar for the Creators release. The Creators update looks like it will be pretty significant as far as gaming goes.
Eh, probably not really - at least not for those who already have a decent rig.
All of those tweaks done by NVIDIA or Microsoft to enhance gaming performance always mostly benefit low-end users and even then it's a marginal improvement.
   
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dr_rus
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Default 03-16-2017, 14:15 | posts: 1,611

WDDM 2.2 further improves Windows' handling of HDR and WCG. Unless you have such display not much will change for you.
   
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Yxskaft
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Default 03-16-2017, 16:53 | posts: 1,019

Both AMD and Nvidia apparently have experimental Shader Model 6.0 support in their latest drivers on the latest insider build

Haven't seen Nvidia comment it but Shader Model 6.0 will probably just be Maxwell 2 and onwards?
   
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dr_rus
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Default 03-16-2017, 16:59 | posts: 1,611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yxskaft View Post
Both AMD and Nvidia apparently have experimental Shader Model 6.0 support in their latest drivers on the latest insider build

Haven't seen Nvidia comment it but Shader Model 6.0 will probably just be Maxwell 2 and onwards?
SM6.0 will require FL12_0 so yeah, Maxwell2+ for NV, GCN2+ for AMD and Skylake+ for Intel.
   
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Default 03-16-2017, 17:36 | posts: 156 | Location: Italy

very bad version 15058, wow!!!
It's very slow when delete file and open program all unlock for a much time
   
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Carfax
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Default 03-16-2017, 18:24 | posts: 1,753 | Location: U.S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yxskaft View Post
Both AMD and Nvidia apparently have experimental Shader Model 6.0 support in their latest drivers on the latest insider build

Haven't seen Nvidia comment it but Shader Model 6.0 will probably just be Maxwell 2 and onwards?
This is probably what's causing my issues with weird slowdowns and lag which I never experienced before on previous insider builds. Reinstalling the driver fixed most of the problems, except one that is occurring in Deus Ex MD.

Hopefully NVidia will release their Creator update optimized drivers as soon as possible.
   
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Carfax
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Default 03-16-2017, 18:27 | posts: 1,753 | Location: U.S

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes View Post
very bad version 15058, wow!!!
It's very slow when delete file and open program all unlock for a much time
No issues here. This version is actually very fast for me. There's supposed to be another build released by the end of the week though, so if 15058 is giving you problems, you may want to try the newer one.
   
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dr_rus
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Default 03-16-2017, 20:28 | posts: 1,611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carfax View Post
This is probably what's causing my issues with weird slowdowns and lag which I never experienced before on previous insider builds. Reinstalling the driver fixed most of the problems, except one that is occurring in Deus Ex MD.

Hopefully NVidia will release their Creator update optimized drivers as soon as possible.
SM6.0 can't cause any issues in programs which aren't using it and as of right now there are no programs which are using SM6.0.
   
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Default 03-16-2017, 20:43 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_rus View Post
SM6.0 can't cause any issues in programs which aren't using it and as of right now there are no programs which are using SM6.0.
Anybody can test sm6.0 from now on with latest insider(Windows 10 Creators) and amd driver. Not sure about nvidia. Before , everybody had to use WARP.
   
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Default 03-16-2017, 20:48 | posts: 1,611

Quote:
Originally Posted by siriq View Post
Anybody can test sm6.0 from now on with latest insider(Windows 10 Creators) and amd driver. Not sure about nvidia. Before , everybody had to use WARP.
Ok. How is that changes what I've said?
   
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siriq
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Default 03-16-2017, 20:53 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_rus View Post
Ok. How is that changes what I've said?
Did i say it change it?

If ms will enable kepler and maxwell v1 support on sm6.0 then amd gcn 1 will be supported as well. According to the current plan, from gcn 2.0 and up , maxwell v2 and up getting support on sm6.0. Nvidia users can enjoy a gimped support .

Last edited by siriq; 03-16-2017 at 20:55.
   
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Default 03-16-2017, 20:57 | posts: 1,611

Quote:
Originally Posted by siriq View Post
Did i say it change it?

If ms will enable kepler and maxwell v1 support on sm6.0 then amd gcn 1 will be supported as well. According to the current plan, from gcn 2.0 and up , maxwell v2 and up getting support on sm6.0. Nvidia users can enjoy a gimped support .
Again, I've already said this.

And yes, Nvidia users can enjoy "gimped" support of FL12_1 while AMD users will enjoy their glorious full FL12_0.
   
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Alessio1989
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Default 03-16-2017, 22:46 | posts: 674 | Location: Good-food-land

If guys are interested in SM 6.0 support, this is the current situation: https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectX...unning-Shaders
   
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siriq
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Default 03-16-2017, 23:03 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

I see no benefit of FL12_1 in sm 6.0 . Maybe you can link something to see it.
   
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Carfax
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Default 03-16-2017, 23:28 | posts: 1,753 | Location: U.S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio1989 View Post
If guys are interested in SM 6.0 support, this is the current situation: https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectX...unning-Shaders
Interesting, but since we're on this tangent, I haven't really seen any good write ups about the benefits of SM6.0 compared to previous editions that is explained in layman's terms.

Can you or dr_rus tell us what we as gamers should expect from SM6.0? Will it improve performance, image quality or both?
   
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nevcairiel
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Default 03-16-2017, 23:35 | posts: 69

The big thing in SM6.0 (and arguably the only thing of note) is the ability to make use of the GPUs parallelism directly from inside the shaders, ie. multi-threading for shaders, if you will.

They also improved the shader compilation process and gave them a more optimized path to get to the hardware, to fit into a DX12 landscape.
An interesting part is that its fully backwards compatible to SM5, so the compiler improvements can be used very easily.

Last edited by nevcairiel; 03-16-2017 at 23:38.
   
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siriq
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Default 03-16-2017, 23:38 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carfax View Post
Interesting, but since we're on this tangent, I haven't really seen any good write ups about the benefits of SM6.0 compared to previous editions that is explained in layman's terms.

Can you or dr_rus tell us what we as gamers should expect from SM6.0? Will it improve performance, image quality or both?
Performance and code migration benefit. Amd driver is pretty much ready for DXIL v1.0 , while nvidia is still getting ready for it.
Lot of instructions can be use more efficient. Further test will say more about this.
   
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siriq
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Default 03-16-2017, 23:39 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The big thing in SM6.0 (and arguably the only thing of note) is the ability to make use of the GPUs parallelism directly from inside the shaders, ie. multi-threading for shaders, if you will.

They also improved the shader compilation process and gave them a more optimized path to get to the hardware, to fit into a DX12 landscape.
An interesting part is that its fully backwards compatible to SM5, so the compiler improvements can be used very easily.
lol. Pretty much wrote the same thing
   
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siriq
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Default 03-17-2017, 00:25 | posts: 737 | Location: Earth

If you guys want to read more, then head over here: https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectX...t#shader-model
   
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Carfax
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Default 03-17-2017, 04:14 | posts: 1,753 | Location: U.S

@ nevcairiel and siriq, thanks for attempting to explain SM6.0 in layman's terms and the benefits it provides.
   
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-Tj-
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Default 03-17-2017, 07:20 | posts: 13,717 | Location: Proxima \/82

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_rus View Post
SM6.0 can't cause any issues in programs which aren't using it and as of right now there are no programs which are using SM6.0.
Wrong it will be backwards compatible, incl dx11 games. Boost for all.
   
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Alessio1989
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Default 03-17-2017, 08:11 | posts: 674 | Location: Good-food-land

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carfax View Post
Interesting, but since we're on this tangent, I haven't really seen any good write ups about the benefits of SM6.0 compared to previous editions that is explained in layman's terms.

Can you or dr_rus tell us what we as gamers should expect from SM6.0? Will it improve performance, image quality or both?
- New intrinsics for PS and CS, turn into reduction of GPU overhead.
- New intermediate language format, easier for GPU drivers to read and optimize.
- Allows more different levels of compiler optimization.
- Removes deprecated optimization which worked fine for older architectures only.
- Allows third party developers to customize the front-end.
- Will allow easier VULKAN-SPIR-V portability.
   
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Alessio1989
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Default 03-17-2017, 08:14 | posts: 674 | Location: Good-food-land

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Tj- View Post
Wrong it will be backwards compatible, incl dx11 games. Boost for all.
DXIL compiler will work for HLSL 5.0 and forward. But this does NOT mean you will get SM6 on DX11 games, this does mean developers can directly re-compile SM 5.0 HLSL shaders with the new compiler without change quite nothing in the shader code.
SM 6.0 will work for feature levels 12_0 GPUs and forwards, for feature levels 11_0 and 11_1 is left to the IHVs will.
   
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Alessio1989
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Default 03-17-2017, 08:17 | posts: 674 | Location: Good-food-land

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carfax View Post
Interesting, but since we're on this tangent, I haven't really seen any good write ups about the benefits of SM6.0 compared to previous editions that is explained in layman's terms.

Can you or dr_rus tell us what we as gamers should expect from SM6.0? Will it improve performance, image quality or both?
SM 6.0 will allows to reduce GPU overhead on pixel shaders and compute shaders. This will help to improve shaders performance (ie reduce the GPU-time, ie improve frame-rate in GPU-limited scenarios).
Image quality has nothing implicitly to do with the shader model or the shading language used.
   
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