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Dell cancels 4K UP3017Q OLED monitor
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Hilbert Hagedoorn
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Default Dell cancels 4K UP3017Q OLED monitor - 01-11-2017, 07:06 | posts: 28,941 | Location: Guru3D testlab

A bit unexpected¬*Dell canceled the 4K OLED monitor they had announced. The¬*Dell UP3017Q Ultrasharp 30-inch does not meet expectations especially in terms of unresolvable image quality problems. Dell...

Dell cancels 4K UP3017Q OLED monitor
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 07:13 | posts: 545 | Location: Moscow, Russia

Oh, isn't it obvious?
An unresolvable "5000" issue.
   
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rl66
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Default 01-11-2017, 07:47 | posts: 1,396 | Location: France

OLED is a nice technology but very expensive on normal screen, and with time goes with technical issue on large surface.

on TV set some company have already given up (also there is new pro. screen technology that have become less expensive)...

i don't worry about DELL they will release another monitor...
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 08:00 | posts: 493 | Location: FIN

Burn-in problem maybe?
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 08:15 | posts: 278

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipu2 View Post
Burn-in problem maybe?
Most likely. Burn in is the #1 problem with OLED technology, especially for PC monitor where you'll get static images appearing for hours on end.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 10:10 | posts: 30 | Location: South-Africa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottiz View Post
Most likely. Burn in is the #1 problem with OLED technology, especially for PC monitor where you'll get static images appearing for hours on end.
If I can remember correctly, it has to do with the lifetime of the Blue lights; they do not last as long as the Red and Green lights.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 10:18 | posts: 50 | Location: Thailand

This doesn't show a good prospect on their upcoming 8K model.

Some time in 2018: "Dell cancels 8K monitor as researches show that human eyes can't see past 5K resolution."
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 11:32 | posts: 330 | Location: CZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipu2 View Post
Burn-in problem maybe?
There was no "burn-in" in modern plasmas and there is no "burn-in" in OLED. All you could/can experience is temporary image retention after many hours of static image being displayed. All gets fixed after watching a movie for example or in case of modern OLEDs, leaving it off over night, electronics fixes it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy-ZA View Post
If I can remember correctly, it has to do with the lifetime of the Blue lights; they do not last as long as the Red and Green lights.
That is not the case here. This monitor was supposed to use LG OLED panel. LG is using their own WOLED (White OLED). There are no blue, red or green OLEDs, just one type, white. This makes the electronics and the whole panel much easier to manufacture and maintain.

Blue OLEDs are only problem in RGB OLEDs like Samsung's AMOLEDs. They are using RGB OLEDs and that is why they use pentile matrix with doubled area for blue OLEDs. With pentile matrix, the lifetime of blue LEDs is actually quite good -> more area -> lower voltage -> higher lifetime.

Last edited by haste; 01-11-2017 at 11:36.
   
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Glottiz
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Default 01-11-2017, 12:04 | posts: 278

Quote:
Originally Posted by haste View Post
There was no "burn-in" in modern plasmas and there is no "burn-in" in OLED. All you could/can experience is temporary image retention after many hours of static image being displayed. All gets fixed after watching a movie for example or in case of modern OLEDs, leaving it off over night, electronics fixes it.
Are you joking or are you robotic spokesperson for one of companies making OLED displays? Because what you are saying is the opposite of truth. OLEDs do suffer from burn in. All Samsung phones with OLED displays suffer from burn in, all LG OLED tvs suffer from burn in. As someone who saw a lot of used Samsung OLED phones I can say that 90%+ of OLED phones used for a while show various degrees of burn in.



   
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Default 01-11-2017, 12:21 | posts: 140

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottiz View Post
Are you joking or are you robotic spokesperson for one of companies making OLED displays? Because what you are saying is the opposite of truth. OLEDs do suffer from burn in. All Samsung phones with OLED displays suffer from burn in, all LG OLED tvs suffer from burn in. As someone who saw a lot of used Samsung OLED phones I can say that 90%+ of OLED phones used for a while show various degrees of burn in.



This seems like an expo piece used for showcasing at max brightness displaying same image for days. OLEDs suffer from burn in only under heavy stress displaying same image at max brightness for months. Sometimes you get a low quality panel and this happens. Most Samsung phones solved this issue years now. There no such issues anymore. Even Apple will adopt OLED pretty soon. We have to remember though that these are phones and not TVs. Phones spend most of their time turned off. I do not agree with your statement though cause it's not realistic. This does not happen to everyone. If it was that widespread nobody would buy Samsung phones and Samsung would have a screen-gate on their feet. This is not how things are. I have OLED phones for years now and never saw an issue. And yes I tried with full screen app which let you see such issues. As for the Dell monitor maybe they had financial and production issues.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 12:32 | posts: 330 | Location: CZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottiz View Post
...
I have Samsung Galaxy S1, S2, S4 and S5 here. Non of them has even slightest trace of burn-in.

Those photos were taken right after displaying static image on maximum brightness for many hours -> temporal image retention, not burn-in. It's so funny how all those loud complains against OLEDs are coming from ppl who never owned a single OLED device

ps. I also own almost 8 years old Panasonic Viera (plasma) and guess what, no burn-in.

Last edited by haste; 01-11-2017 at 12:35.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 12:49 | posts: 10,808 | Location: Terra Firma

There is definitely burn-in in OLED. It may happen under rare circumstances, but saying it doesn't occur is wrong. My Samsung Galaxy Nexus had the OSD buttons burned in after a year and a half and as Glottiz just linked pictures to, you can basically visit any verizon/tmobile/etc store and like half the Galaxy phones on display have burn-in.

A computer screen is going to be even worse for some people. With my phone my screen is either on, being used and different images displayed or it's off in my pocket. My computer screen can sit for hours on the same image. And while there are technologies to mitigate this and the issue definitely has been improved in the latest generation OLED tech, until it's marked "Solved" by Samsung/LG/Whomever I'll probably be avoiding OLED for a monitor.

All that being said, OLED definitely is the future. The LG OLED TV's literally look like a window into another world and my N6P/Pixel XL both have excellent OLED displays. I just wouldn't want to shell out $5K on a monitor for it to burn in after two years. That would be annoying.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 13:24 | posts: 330 | Location: CZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
There is definitely burn-in in OLED. It may happen under rare circumstances, but saying it doesn't occur is wrong.
It doesn't. If you have some retention, use either cleaning video or play a game on it, watch video etc. until it fades away.

And if you want to exchange pictures, this is my GS4 after 3 years of beating including app development with "always on". Not some random google image taken under unknown circumstances, just real phone sitting right here:

   
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Glottiz
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Default 01-11-2017, 13:27 | posts: 278

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRay View Post
This seems like an expo piece used for showcasing at max brightness displaying same image for days. OLEDs suffer from burn in only under heavy stress displaying same image at max brightness for months. Sometimes you get a low quality panel and this happens. Most Samsung phones solved this issue years now. There no such issues anymore. Even Apple will adopt OLED pretty soon. We have to remember though that these are phones and not TVs. Phones spend most of their time turned off. I do not agree with your statement though cause it's not realistic. This does not happen to everyone. If it was that widespread nobody would buy Samsung phones and Samsung would have a screen-gate on their feet. This is not how things are. I have OLED phones for years now and never saw an issue. And yes I tried with full screen app which let you see such issues. As for the Dell monitor maybe they had financial and production issues.
False. My Samsung phone has status bar and other UI elements permanently burned in and I don't even use my phone all that much, I hardly ever text and I always use ~50% brightness.

It is wide spread, it's just big majority of people have absolutely zero attention to detail and they couldn't care less. Just like people don't care that Oneplus 3 has one of the least color accurate displays, but as long as OLED has ridiculously oversaturated colors people go "WOW LOOKS SO GOOD" and buy it.

One thing's for sure, my next phone will not be OLED, I'm tired of having to be paranoid about burn in.
   
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Denial
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Default 01-11-2017, 14:09 | posts: 10,808 | Location: Terra Firma

Quote:
Originally Posted by haste View Post
It doesn't. If you have some retention, use either cleaning video or play a game on it, watch video etc. until it fades away.]
I don't even understand how you can say it doesn't when there are literally thousands of examples of it occurring. Yes to some degree you can lessen it by playing other content over it because you're simply depleting the life on the other pixels to the same degree. But there definitely exists cases where it's not going to be removed in any reasonable timeframe of playing videos or even utilizing tools that are meant to remove it. My Galaxy Nexus is one of the examples - I used it nearly a year after I noticed the burn-in and it simply got worse. I watched videos, played games, rotated the screen for maps, etc - but there, for the rest of the phones existence was the stupid android OSD symbols permanently scared onto the phone.

Since then I've owned the S4, Note 4, Nexus 6P, and now Pixel XL and I've had zero issues - but I've definitely been in stores and have seen demo units where the screen looks like complete ****. I've also seen reports from tech journalists, even from reputable sites like Anandtech that talk about burn-in issues and the methods these companies use to mitigate it.

Hell these companies purposely calibrate the phones so that the white point adjusts more towards normal as it's being used - which is literally because the pixels are being worn out, which is the mechanism for burn-in occurring.. a specific set of pixels get worn out more than the others. Yes you can alleviate it by wearing all the other pixels out to the same degree.. but when you have static images for hours upon hours at high brightness levels (more common on a desktop monitor) there are going to exist cases where simply running a video over isn't going to wipe away the damage done to the pixels.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 14:25 | posts: 17,539 | Location: 127.0.0.1

I see complaints of burn in on Samsung phones on XDA constantly, these are not display/demo models either
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 14:35 | posts: 330 | Location: CZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
Hell these companies purposely calibrate the phones so that the white point adjusts more towards normal as it's being used - which is literally because the pixels are being worn out, which is the mechanism for burn-in occurring.. a specific set of pixels get worn out more than the others. Yes you can alleviate it by wearing all the other pixels out to the same degree.. but when you have static images for hours upon hours at high brightness levels (more common on a desktop monitor) there are going to exist cases where simply running a video over isn't going to wipe away the damage done to the pixels.
You are mixing 2 things together again. Burn-in has nothing to do with whitepoint of the panel. If there is some whitepoint shift towards yellow in Samsung's AMOLEDs, it's because of incorrect electronics calibration for their blue OLEDs. This issue is mostly visible in GS2 because it doesn't have pentile matrix in combination with not-tested-enough electronics.

Also this whitepoint shift won't happen on LGs WOLED, because there is just one OLED color. This is one of the reasons for simple and easier to maintain electronics I mentioned.

In general, ppl should stop using "burn-in" buzzword for everything related to OLED. Burn-in is just permanent, unrepairable image stuck on screen. 99.9% of images you see on internet are just image retention due to bad usage.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 14:37 | posts: 2

My S5 has some burn in on the status bar area. It's not the most noticeable thing but it's there. All my OLED screen phones have had some degree of burn in or another. It's not always the most noticeable thing but it's definitely there.

That being said, I know not everyone has this problem. Still, completely dismissing the idea that such a thing is possible is kinda crazy to me.
   
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Denial
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Default 01-11-2017, 14:51 | posts: 10,808 | Location: Terra Firma

Quote:
Originally Posted by haste View Post
You are mixing 2 things together again. Burn-in has nothing to do with whitepoint of the panel. If there is some whitepoint shift towards yellow in Samsung's AMOLEDs, it's because of incorrect electronics calibration for their blue OLEDs. This issue is mostly visible in GS2 because it doesn't have pentile matrix in combination with not-tested-enough electronics.

Also this whitepoint shift won't happen on LGs WOLED, because there is just one OLED color. This is one of the reasons for simple and easier to maintain electronics I mentioned.

In general, ppl should stop using "burn-in" buzzword for everything related to OLED. Burn-in is just permanent, unrepairable image stuck on screen. 99.9% of images you see on internet are just image retention due to bad usage.
The whitepoint shifts because the pixels are decaying. Burn-in occurs because a set of pixels (the burned in image) are decayed way beyond the others at a faster rate. The decaying of pixels is the mechanism responsible for both the white-point shift and burn-in.

My definition of burn-in is image retention that isn't going away after playing a video or two across the screen. I know what image retention is, I understand that sometimes you can make that go away. But try going into a Verizon store, find a screen that looks like what BlueRay posted - get that to come off. It will take you weeks of playing random crap on the screen to get rid of that. I know because I tried it on my Galaxy Nexus. I know because there are literally hundreds of reports of it, with people commenting the same as you "just play a few videos and it will go away" and the people with the actual phone responding "no it doesn't go away". Like if you're saying that all these people, including my own experience is a lie, then I guess I'm going to stop responding because I don't know what else to tell you.

And yeah, if I'm paying $5K for a monitor, or even 1K+.. I don't even want the slightest potential of that occurring. It was annoying when it was just 3 small icons on my Galaxy Nexus.. but if it's like my taskbar on my $1000 monitor.. yeah. So unless Samsung/LG comes out and says "solved" I personally won't be owning an OLED Monitor.

TV/Phone completely different story. I don't often display static content on either for it to ever be an issue. But I have a 3 monitor setup and some of those monitors are on for 6-8 hours a day and parts of the image literally never changes. Current gen OLED would not hold up with that well at all.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 15:24 | posts: 330 | Location: CZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
The whitepoint shifts because the pixels are decaying. Burn-in occurs because a set of pixels (the burned in image) are decayed way beyond the others at a faster rate. The decaying of pixels is the mechanism responsible for both the white-point shift and burn-in
Whitepoint shifts because electronics is not correctly calibrated for blue OLEDs, which have different lifespan from R or G. It's not the same thing because "decaying" or let's say wear is normal and natural thing for all things, not just OLEDs. Even LEDs, which you probably have in your LCD, are wearing off every second you use them. If the electronics in your LCD wasn't properly calibrated, you would see worse screen homogenity over time(which sometimes happen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
My definition of burn-in is image retention that isn't going away after playing a video or two across the screen. I know what image retention is, I understand that sometimes you can make that go away. But try going into a Verizon store, find a screen that looks like what BlueRay posted - get that to come off. It will take you weeks of playing random crap on the screen to get rid of that.
See, that is the problem. People in general using burn-in incorrectly. Burn-in only happens when the difference in pixels is so enormous that electronics can't cope with it. I have a special noise video which I was using on my plasma when it was new to keep it clean. I often buy cheap phones with screen retention coz I need a lot of devices for development. After a day or 2 with this noise video running, screen is as good as new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
And yeah, if I'm paying $5K for a monitor, or even 1K+.. I don't even want the slightest potential of that occurring. It was annoying when it was just 3 small icons on my Galaxy Nexus.. but if it's like my taskbar on my $1000 monitor.. yeah. So unless Samsung/LG comes out and says "solved" I personally won't be owning an OLED Monitor.
Sure, image retention is not something anyone would want. And to be honest, it will always be here to some extent. Wear of ANY light emitting device is just natural thing. You can only reduce it, but you can never eliminate it. But as I said, modern LGs have electronics which can clean your screen during night when turned off. Like automated cleanup, which is something I could live with.
   
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Denial
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Default 01-11-2017, 15:58 | posts: 10,808 | Location: Terra Firma

Idk, maybe you're right that there is ways to repair it - but I definitely tried a bunch of things people recommended including an app that like played fuzz/noise and IIRC I left it running overnight and it didn't fix the problem.

I'm almost definitely buying an LG OLED TV this year - I guess I'd need to be further convinced that it's a non-issue before I would shell out that kind of money for an OLED monitor.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 17:52 | posts: 6,975 | Location: BC, Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
I don't even understand how you can say it doesn't when there are literally thousands of examples of it occurring.
Simple. It doesn't happen to him, therefore, everyone else is making it up.

this is one of the cornerstones that internet forum discussions are based upon
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 18:50 | posts: 252 | Location: USA

Thank you to Dell for caring and not releasing a faulty product to the public!
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 19:28 | posts: 369 | Location: Auckland

A bit of a shame. I have an LG 65" E6 OLED TV. I was really looking forward to seeing some reviews of this monitor. Hopefully someone else will come out with an OLED screen.
   
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Default 01-11-2017, 22:11 | posts: 3,476 | Location: Imagine...

Speaking about burn in (not image retention)...

Quote:
To be fixed in 2018

Bad news for everyone who wanted to get an OLED TV soon. Some industry experts have told Fudzilla that current generation OLED TVs suffer from a built in defect and that the companies are seeing a lot of TVs being returned after a year of use.


It looks like Quantum dot or Sony Backlight Master Drive LED technology might be your best bet at least for a little while because OLED TVs are still expensive, and the fact that they might get burn in after a while makes them less attractive. There is always good old LED TV, a technology that is predominantly available and manages panels larger than 55 inch at reasonable prices.

This burn in problem could cause some major recalls at some point in the near future but our industry source, who wants to remain unnamed, did mention that there might be a solution in 2018 for the problem. Unfortunately, the solution will happen with the next generation of OLED panels.

So, getting great color levels and black that doesnít not looked washed up have their downsides too. The same problem didnít affect the small panels such as the ones in phones and tablets - *it occurs when on large panels only. Samsung and Sony are sticking with alternative technologies for the time being while LG has been pushing for OLEDs for*a while.
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/42511-o...burn-in-effect
   
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