DirectX Triple Buffering

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by Morax, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. Morax

    Morax Master Guru

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    Hi there,

    I only recently went from a crossfired AMD R9 290X to a single Geforce GTX 1080. Not because I hate AMD but more because I wanted a single card setup which was able to more or less reach the potential performance my CFX-setup sometimes was able to have (in those cases where Multi-GPU was decently working).

    So I thought the 1080 was a decent choice because I'm too impatient to wait for either 'big Pascal' or 'big Polaris'. Yes I think €750,- was a bit steep considering the 290X's were under €500 each at the time. I also chose the 'green' team not because I expected the grass to be 'greener', but because I was a bit curious, since my last decent nVidia card was a GeForce 6800GT.

    I'm not going to turn this in an AMD vs nVidia topic, but things I currently like are the near-'free' PhysX (well, most of the time. It doesn't work properly in The Bureau though...), and the actual working VSync setting in the Control Panel. Oh and the somewhat more versatile DSR when compared to VSR.

    However: for Radeons there was this useful (unfortunately discontinued) little utility called RadeonPro, which can do where the Control Center fails (like forcing/overriding VSync).

    There are a number of games which don't use Triple Buffering when VSync is activated, resulting in half framerates when it drops under 60fps (on a 60Hz monitor), and additionally causes extra input lag.
    I don't have the money or resources to get myself expensive solutions like a new monitor supporting over 120Hz and/or G-Sync/Freesync, but I can't stand visual tearing.
    Proper Triple Buffering (the one forceable in RadeonPro I mean, which only displays the one back buffer which was finished and doesn't force both of them to display. And not to be confused with 'Frames to render ahead'), is an excellent low-cost solution for these issues: framerates aren't cut in half and the input lag is negligible. The only 'visual cue' is probably frameskipping, because instead of dropping every 2nd frame (on Double Buffered VSync), the frame dropped can easily be the 5th or 6th so. But at least the relative performance remains smooth.

    I know D3DOverrider used to do just that, but it doesn't seems to work well with Windows 10, and apparently has issues with 64-bit applications, so this is a non-option.

    Isn't there another way? Or is everything discontinued on this side as well?

    P.S.: The nVidia CP's Triple Buffering option only works with OpenGL, just like AMD's. I find it odd the CP doesn't mention this though...
     
  2. Han2K

    Han2K Master Guru

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  3. Morax

    Morax Master Guru

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    Thanks for the reply. I already obtained NVInspector, and it's quite useful indeed. However the Triple Buffering setting in that one is the same as in NVCP's.
    Are you sure? There are many posts suggesting otherwise. I tried to test it myself but the game which was supposedly causing me these 'double buffering headaches', The Bureau: XCOM Declassified, actually HAS working Triple Buffering. But causes some stutters/framedrops in-game which makes it seem like it doesn't, but a simple alt+tab out and back in somehow remedies that (yes the game has more issues, like the lack of GPU PhysX-support for more modern nVidia cards...).
    The other game which does for a fact NOT support it, which came to my mind: Lichdom: Battlemage, doesn't support DSR(nor VSR) resolutions and not even TressFX on nVidia cards, so I'm not able to get my framerate below 60fps despite how hard I'm trying .:3eyes:

    I'll continue to see if I can find any others without native Triple Buffering support.
     
  4. Whiplashwang

    Whiplashwang Ancient Guru

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    No it doesn't! Triple Buffering is only supported in OpenGL not DirectX. This has been a common complaint for years with Nvidia and they haven't done **** to add support for DirectX games. People were using D3DOverrider to achieve TB in dx games but that software is outdated and doesn't support 64-bit games or DX12.

    So currently the only way to enable Triple Buffering in directx games on Nvidia hardware is only in-game if supported (i.e. Rise of the Tomb Raider).
     

  5. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    yes, you need to alt tab out and back in the game then tripple buffering works without the use of any 3rd party program.
     
  6. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    If you enable in-game v-sync and then use borderless windowed mode it will use triple-buffered v-sync.
     
  7. Morax

    Morax Master Guru

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    True, but not all games support borderless fullscreen.
    Does DSR work with borderless though? I know VSR had some issues with it, like forcing the desktop to a VSR res to make it work.
     
  8. Whiplashwang

    Whiplashwang Ancient Guru

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    Yes, Borderless mode is the best alternative, but with a performance hit. The triple-buffered desktop is only supported in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 correct? Or does Windows 7 do it as well?


    Morax, you can try Borderless Gaming software to force borderless mode in games that don't support it. I found this very useful for Dying Light which had serious frame drop issues when using vsync without Triple Buffering. Also, I don't believe DSR works with borderless mode. Only Fullscreen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  9. Morax

    Morax Master Guru

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    I never used Borderless before, aside from some Unity-engine games which don't support otherwise, since I always had the impression Exclusive Fullscreen works better.
    Also CrossFire doesn't work in windowed-modes (although it did work in Mantle-windowed modes apparently, so there's still hope...).
    The downside of having slower task-switching was something I can live with.

    If DSR doesn't work like with native Fullscreen modes, then it would be a reason not to use Borderless, since I can't live without my high quality 'Anti-Aliasing'. No Post-Processing 'AA'-injectors come close with the much-more-accurate-but-performance-heavy anti-aliasing solutions like SuperSampling and/or DownSampling.

    However, it does seem that the Gears of War Windows 10-edition supports resolutions beyond my native 1080p. And I thought Windows-store games only work in Borderless Fullscreen (even with the latest updates to UWP).
     
  10. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I'm using Borderless is some Blizzard Games as they seems to run smoother that way.
     

  11. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Not sure about Windows 7. At least on Windows 10 there's pretty much no performance hit. Sometimes it may even run faster (I believe someone got higher numbers that way when benched DX12 Rise of the Tomb Raider).
     
  12. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Yes, that is a fix I've used a few times to fix the low framerates in GTA V... I play that completely maxed out with 4xTXAA at 2560x1440 so the framerate normally hovers between 45 and 60 fps. However, the game initially runs at 30 fps on resuming my save until I Alt-Tab out then back into the game. It's really annoying that Rockstar have never bothered to add a triple buffering option, especially considering how many other options it has to tweak. :3eyes:

    And if Alt-Tabbing to the desktop and back enables triple buffering then doesn't that suggest a bug with the driver? Why haven't NVIDIA bothered to support triple buffering in DirectX? I'm guessing that it is the same reason why Unwinder has never updated his previous very useful D3DOverrider tool (which has only become less useful because it only supports 32-bit games and not 64-bit ones).

    Options like Adaptive V-Sync are not ideal for me as I cannot stand screen tearing in any amount as I am very sensitive to it. Also, not all want to pay a premium for a G-SYNC display either.
     
  13. Morax

    Morax Master Guru

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    AMD never bothered just the same. 'We' were just 'lucky' that RadeonPro is able to force it in 64-bit apps before the programmer was hired by AMD to work on something completely different and the tool got shelved as a result.

    By the way I thought GTA V supported Triple Buffering? Or was it because it's automatically used in Multi-GPU modes that I had the impression...


    I read somewhere that DX11 Triple Buffering is not the same as 'classic' Triple Buffering, that in the DX11 version both back buffers are displayed instead of that one of them is dropped, resulting in more input lag.
    I could be mistaken here since more often than not people seem to confuse the 'Frames to render ahead'-setting, which usually defaults to three, with Triple Buffering. Or that the NVCP Triple Buffering setting actually works with DirectX.

    EDIT: speaking of D3DOverrider: did this Unwinder-guy ever give a reason not to just simply add Triple Buffering to RTSS? Obligations towards MSI?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  14. SplashDown

    SplashDown Maha Guru

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    Thanks everyone for info, I was always under the impression it was for OpenGL only. I'm completely self taught, so it's hard to teach yourself something you don't know you need to know, if you get my drift. And I always play fullscreen mode if it's available, so big plus.
     
  15. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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  16. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    I've seen that at least, plus in for example DX:MD and Quantum Break borderless gives notably smoother frame delivery ie less stuttering (in DX11).

    You can ask him yourself over at Afterburner/RTSS forum, Unwinder is a mod here.
     

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