Do you think AMD Zen will put AMD back in the game?

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Jw_Leonhart, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. Jw_Leonhart

    Jw_Leonhart Ancient Guru

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    There doesn't seem to be much information as of yet, except that it supposedly will be 40% faster at least, will have a multi-threading similar to Intel, and be around 14nm...

    Do you think this will be able to pit AMD against Intel again and their Core i7 line?

    Please only thoughts, lets not turn this into bashing. :bang:
     
  2. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    AMD has to solve 2 problems.
    1 making a real competitor to Intel.
    2 getting rid of their "fame",people just laugh when they hear names like Bulldozer,Steamroller...and in the end it is just the name.
    No need for a killer name,just a killer product and we will provide the hero-name.
    Just give that AMD,we are fed up waiting!

    i loved my Athlon +3200 Venice,and i still love their APUs.But when i needed pure power,i just went with Intel,AMD just hadn't what i needed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
  3. moab600

    moab600 Ancient Guru

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    Might bring some marketshare but nothing special, Intel basically is untouchable and they can do whatever they want, amd can never beat them.

    NVIDIA is pretty much the same, before Fury X launched, all i heard was fury that and fury that fury everywhere...

    Now we finally know what it is, i hear almost no one talking bout it, only the 980TI which is the ultimate card.

    If AMD would have the money they needed, things could go other way, but as it stands now AMD is not in a good shape, maybe in worst shape ever.
     
  4. boerenlater

    boerenlater Guest

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    No, AMD is only able to compete in the lower end.
    So maybe the new Zen will compete with i3s and older i5s but thats it.
    Just compare the R&D budgets of AMD and Intel.
     

  5. AMDJoe

    AMDJoe AMD rep

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    I personally believe that it's never about the high end stuff. Mass market is in the mid to low end which makes AMD very competitive. Wish I saw more AMD stuff in laptops and such. Zen's reported power consumption looks pretty awesome. Would hopefully lead to better battery life in laptops which I'd appreciate most after decent performance.
     
  6. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    No, I don't think they can beat a first Gen i7 socket 1366 6 core right now, they would have to leap frog 1366, 1155, 1150 intel quads, not even counting the many different 6 core intel and their 8 core monster. No way imo.
     
  7. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Guest

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    It's possible. They are finally leaving legacy support on the cutting room floor and looking forward with the new chipset. This could be a game changer.

    At least I hope so.

    I'm not trying to hype Zen or anything but it will have "full" cores not integer cores. All this together may close the gap considerably. I would like to see them match sandy bridge across their lineup.
     
  8. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    Matching a 2011 cpu is not what I would call high end. Bought my 2600k 4 1/2 years ago.
     
  9. Darkest

    Darkest Guest

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    I can see Zen matching Sandy for per-core performance, but that's not really enough at this point. AMD is trying to compete against two giants on two different playing fields, and they're suffering for it. While competition in the mid range is laudable, it's the higher end that people tend to look at. It's a huge bonus from a marketing perspective.

    AMD needs a cash injection to genuinely go forward imo, and a big one. They're barely keeping up with their GPU solutions at the moment, and they're years behind with processors.

    I'm not saying this because I want to jump on their balls, I think they've had some solid products over the past few years. I built my brother an APU/5800k based system a couple of years back and it's been a brilliant system that's met all of his needs. But it's getting to the point where they need to catch peoples attention, and not with a childish marketing campaign.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
  10. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Guest

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    True, but that would be a big step in the right direction. Remember haswell is only mildly better than sandy bridge.

    Couple that with AMD APU's graphics being better than intel's typically and things could get interesting.
     

  11. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    Say they match Sandy bridge, intel has a strangle hold on the cpu market. Everybody with a second Gen i7 and higher will not be tempted in the least to switch. That's not even haking into account the e 6 and 8 core cpus. Like darkest and I both said they are years behind intel in the cpu market. In the gpu market they seem just fine trying to match nvidia. I wanted the fury x to be better than it turned out to be. That would of forced nvidia to drop the price on the 980ti that I plan on buying too. There marketing team seems to build up a lot of hype and not deliver. Just look at the bulldozer hype.
     
  12. ManofGod

    ManofGod Ancient Guru

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    As long as they are able to stick to the plan, I think this Zen CPU will be faster than the 4770k is today at stock. That really is not that hard to realize since they are supposed to be 40% faster than the core that comes after steamroller. (I do not recall the name of it though.)

    The real thing is, are the engineers doing what they need to or not? Are they hand building it as they should or using the process they used when Bulldozer failed overall. (That architecture could have been a lot better if the engineers had been able to do the work the best way they knew how. :( )

    I am very much looking forward to this time next year for CPU's though. At that point, I could justify upgrading both my work and home computer's no matter what I purchase. :)
     
  13. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Guest

    The 40 percent is quite possibly worst case as it's hard to quantify '40 percent faster' with completely different architecture. The 40 percent is possibly just referring to native x86 code (or whatever it is called), and not when SSE x, AVX x, etc are utilised. For example it may be 40 percent faster in ASM, but 60 percent faster in AVX.

    Also remember it supports AVX2, and possibly AVX 512, so it is also workload dependent. AVX2 etc benefits video encoding greatly, but for other things it really isn't anywhere near as beneficial.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that is will have hyperthreading (under a different name), which is supposedly better in terms of splitting the workload. It also has 4 true cores for the APU version... and 8 in the FX version. So, even if it matches Haswell in the 4 core APU, it will be essentially twice as fast in the FX version if whatever is being run is truly multi-threaded.

    For gaming, it makes things a little more complex. The APU will likely handle the CPU aspects of new DirectX 12 games just fine. The GPU part of the APU supposedly will be able to work in conjunction with a discrete GPU, with load balancing, so the APU may be better for gaming than the FX CPU. Since the GPU part of the APU will likely be faster than Intel, AMD Zen should in theory actually be better for gaming. The load balancing is dependent on DirectX 12 programming, however AMD has been rumoured to be working on an extended version for all games (including DirectX 11) between the APU and a discrete AMD card of the next generation.

    Anyways :). Future looks bright for AMD, as long as people don't just stubbornly buy Intel like they'll likely do.
     
  14. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    They haven't been relevant since socket 939. That's the last time I had amd. With their meager R&D budget split between cpu and gpu divisions, I am not expecting miracles imo. Hope I am wrong on that. Just look at the new gpus from amd they were all retreads in the 300 series and the top gpu needs an water cooler as reference, plus all the other negatives that that gpu brings to the table. The company is a sinking ship and the only thing that can help them is a huge influx of money and some changes in management. As who they have now aren't up to the challenge. One bad decision after another. Fwiw I have owned way more amd cpus than intel. They tend to have a much higher shelf life in that regard.
     
  15. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Guest

    The 300 series GPU's were never intended to be released as they are, what let them down was the failure of the 20 nm process. It would probably be horrifying to know how much they lost on the process not being viable, and likewise with Nvidia. THey simply didn't have the funds to transfer all the changes originally intended for 20 nm process back to the 28 nm process and release them as new cards. Nvidia had a bit more money in order to do this (and supposedly they thought 'stuff it' a little earlier), but they are still in a not dissimilar situation with their GPU's.

    So, people can blame AMD and Nvidia all they want for the current GPU offerings, but in this case it really wasn't their fault! People shouldn't have a sook and not buy AMD because 'ooh not buying them now because they aren't all new and shiny, I'll buy Nvidia instead (regardless of the performance pricepoint)', because whether you like it or not, the latest Nvidia cards aren't what they're 'supposed' to be either. Sure, they managed to backport more stuff to it, but the DirectX 12 feature level is hardly a point to argue because you're unlikely to see any real benefit of the higher feature level. By the time you do, you will be up for a new card anyway (and the difference isn't great). The feature level may be a bit misleading since although AMD are at a lower feature level, they do have a 'higher level' in one or two other features.

    As I said earlier, the hardest choice when Zen desktop CPU's come out is whether to go 8 full core FX and no GPU, or 4 full core APU, seeing as the latter may actually be better for future gaming :).
     

  16. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    More BS Hype from AMD, i said what would happen with the Fury months before its release. Each Gen gets worse with AMD so another meh for Zen, underperforming once again cpu and gpu, they should just give up on the high end.
     
  17. boerenlater

    boerenlater Guest

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    Cool you already know how it performs before it comes out.
    Maybe you should give Hilbert your engineering samples for a preview.
     
  18. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Guest

    It's the preconceived stubborn mindset people have. Same thing happened when the original Celerons came out. They were disgustingly terrible, and anyone arguing otherwise would have to be an idiot. Yet, people still insisted getting it instead of an Athlon, which was the equivalent cost. The Zen could be twice as fast as Intel and the majority of people would still want to pay more for the then inferior product.

    Don't believe me? Why do people blindly pay so much for Apple products?
     
  19. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    I know alot of **** before it comes out because I'm an experienced campaigner aka a veteran.:hatty:
     
  20. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    When a company puts out sub par cpus in 9 years straight since socket 939, safe bet that trend will continue.
     

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