Frequent 'atikmpag.sys' BSOD

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by edgarbh01, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    Hello.

    I'm sorry if this is a bit sudden. My name is Edgar, I'm new here, and I need some help regarding the issue described in the title.

    I've been trying to get some help in other forums but I cant get any answers from the staff :(

    It has been a year or so since I started having this BSOD problem, it happens while working or playing games (mostly). As far as I remember, this started when I updated my AMD drivers around november.

    Usually, while I'm playing, it happens this way: the screen suddenly freezes but the cursor can move still, then it stops and works again, the screen turns black; the previous process repeats for a few minutes and then a message appears: 'Screen deactivated'. After that, the background sounds stop and a blue screen appears.

    I managed to get a dump report using an app called 'WhoCrashed'

    On Wed 15/10/2014 02:45:29 a.m. GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\101414-29998-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: atikmpag.sys (atikmpag+0xAE5C)
    Bugcheck code: 0x116 (0xFFFFFA8004E8E220, 0xFFFFF88004B55E5C, 0x0, 0xD)
    Error: VIDEO_TDR_ERROR
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\atikmpag.sys
    product: AMD driver
    company: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
    description: AMD multi-vendor Miniport Driver
    Bug check description: This indicates that an attempt to reset the display driver and recover from a timeout failed.
    A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: atikmpag.sys (AMD multi-vendor Miniport Driver, Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.).

    My system specs are these:
    speccy.piriform.com/results/kRIySWP0WYFOYAO0EZGl88K (Just add the http)

    What I've tried so far:
    - Reinstalling Windows 7
    - Uninstalling all AMD software using 'Display Driver Uninstaller' and then reinstalling the latest AMD drivers for my card.
    - Intalling an older version of the same drivers. Either a complete, express, install or just grabbing the display drivers. No CCC.
    - Using 'expand.exe' command on 'atikmpag.sy_' file, renaming it, and then overwriting the one lovated in System32/drivers
    - Uninstalling and reinstalling my games and applications, programs.
    - Full AV scan, using Avira Desktop Free.

    I've been using Rome II: Total War to test the crashes, since it's the game I've been playing a lot lately and where BSODs ocurr the most. It has happened at desktop or even with other games.

    I might have missed some steps, so I'm going to try all over again.
     
  2. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    It's a TDR bug check. In layman's terms it means the GPU stopped communicating with the CPU.

    There's couple of things which can cause a TDR but looking at your specs my money is on the PSU.




    [​IMG]

    Let's see...

    Advertised power = 600W

    3.3v=118W
    5v = 300W
    12v = 432W

    Total =850W

    So we have a 600W PSU with 418W on the 3.3/5v rails and a total output of 850w. Specs for the 500/550 models are even more interesting.


    Lol, that's a quality unit right there..:D
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  3. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    Quality unit or not err, AMD already factor in "crap" power supplies when they print the specification requirements of the cards....as long as you have what they state, your covered.

    The only difference is, on a quality PSU (I have 2 Corsair 650TX's) you can get away with running the same cards on a much lower wattage than what your supposed to have, and they're also less likely to pop and take everything with them. They also make your motherboard last longer as they don't feed it bad regulation that strains your motherboard to "smooth out".

    So in general, you shouldn't skimp on a quality PSU no as it's the foundation of the rest of your system, and it will last you longer...but.

    However getting 0x116 on all and every drivers means your card is probably on it's way out...likely the VRAM is shot.

    But I would only think that as a last resort if it's happening on boot, or at the desktop and you're also seeing corruption that go hand in hand with TDR 0x116/117 aswell.

    If you are, it's time to toss the card.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  4. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    First off, when it comes to cheap PSU's the only factor AMD or Nvidia overcompensate for is wattage. There is a lot more to a PSU than just how much power it can supply, things like ripple are important.

    I only mentioned the fake specs to illustrate what a junk power supply it was, even if it was 1000w it doesn't mean it can supply clean power.


    Secondly, the initial cause of a 116 bugcheck is hardware, namely a stuck GPU.

    If the GPU Scheduler is unable to complete a task with the TDR Timeout period, the GPU is considered to be frozen.
    The Scheduler then informs the graphics driver that the operating system has detected a timeout, and the GPU will need to be reset.

    If the driver fails to reset the GPU
    ,
    the the system will bugcheck with a Stop 0x116. So of course it has something to do with the driver, but that doesn't mean the driver is to blame.


    Btw, nice backpeddle on your initial post, too bad you weren't able to edit it in time.




     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014

  5. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    One more thing, VRAM doesn't have anything to do with it, a TDR is strictly GPU related.
     
  6. CalculuS

    CalculuS Ancient Guru

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    @ Pill Monster

    [​IMG]
     
  7. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    Hey, thanks a lot for the replies!

    Yeah, I changed my PSU to this 'Jaguar' some time ago. The BSODs ocurr at the desktop rarely, sometimes after a reboot; but, as I said, it has happened a number of times only, maybe 5 or 6 since the problem started.

    I'm a complete noob when it comes to hardware to be honest, so please deal with me a little more.

    So, does the problem lie in the PSU unit or is it the GPU? What could I do to solve this problem?

    If I understand correctly, judging from your answers, one of the problems is the power supplied to the GPU. Should I change the card?

    Sorry, my main language isn't english, im quite confident in it but its kind of difficult to understand some terms here.

    Again, thank you so much for your replies. :)
     
  8. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    the specs on that psu are completely false. There's no way to know the true figures but I would be surprised if it more than 350 watts.

    That said can u give the rest of ur specs. Are the bsods all the same error? Did they ocurr before the psu was installed and what drivers are u using?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  9. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    Firstly I didn't back peddle, I actually read through the post properly second time around and noticed the mistake and just edited accordingly. It wasn't so much back peddling, it was simply a mistake to not read all of the initial post after I woke up. Big deal, people sometimes make mistakes, and edit things all the time on here, coz people aint perfect, and sometimes need to get out of doors quickly or do other things at certain times of the day etc, bah humbug.

    And secondly, bad VRAM can in fact cause TDR 0x116 errors, I've had it happen to me, but it usually follows corruption of the VRAM contents as well across boot and in the BIOS, enough to trip the gpu into reading false data = TDR 0x116.

    If the GPU can't make any sense of the data it's being fed, then describe what else is it going to do but stop responding, and reset itself hmmm ?

    This is a TDR from bad VRAM no ? Do you actually honestly really believe bad VRAM cannot trigger TDR errors ?

    It's a little bit different on Windows XP because of VPU recovery, whereas on Vista+ you just blue screen instead and it's handled by Windows and not the drivers under WDDM.

    Think about it. There is no other available option but to reset on corrupted out of bounds data...because to continue on invalid data isn't an option.

    Therefore, thinking about it logically for a moment, it's entirely feasible that dodgy VRAM can in fact trigger 0x116 errors, simply because the GPU can't make sense of the data being fed since it's invalid/corrupted/out of bounds.

    So what does the GPU do when this scenario happens ? It resets itself.....

    Your logic about the GPU being solely responsible for triggering/causing a TDR is also flawed. Whilst the GPU itself infact signals the TDR, the cause can be different.

    In fact there are hundreds of reasons for the triggering of TDR errors, from a loose cable, a short to the case, or flaky drivers, all to a failing hard drive corrupting data. And they are notoriously hard to track down, diagnose and isolate. It's not so simple sometimes.

    When Vista came out, Nvidia's drivers were notorious for causing a constant stream of TDR's, yet there was nothing actually wrong with the hardware itself, nor the power supplies.

    The GPU is just signalling there is a problem that's all, what the problem is, or where it lies, is still up for diagnosis, and it's not as clear cut as simply the GPU or a junky PSU would have you believe.

    But yes, I would start looking at the PSU quality as a starting point, and work from there to isolate the issue one step at a time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  10. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    So you "made a mistake" claiming his PSU was fine and that any old PSU will do because AMD/NV account for cheap PSU's? Or was that just BS?

    Please stop posting and go read the latest edition of Winternals, because your understanding of Windows is clearly limited. After that head over to MSDN and visit the library.

    VPU recover and a 116 stop error are two different things. One is a driver reset the other is a kernel bugcheck. The GPU doesn't "reset" anything.

    My "logic" as you put it, is what Microsoft publishes. If you have a problem - take it up with them. I don't have time or want to explain this, I get the feeling you'll argue and keep backpedaling anyway.

    And you are now on my ignore list, have a nice day. ;)
     

  11. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    I grow tired of the complete and utter holier than thou attitude clowns on here thinking they're always pompously correct. I didn't make a mistake...

    I stick 100% by my original statement that AMD do in fact have to overstate specifications for the PSU requirements for their cards, simply because
    not everyone has a quality PSU to hand and AMD knows that, and it helps insure against any claims of everything burning your house down.

    So they overstate the requirements to play it safe because they have to for all the chicken brand PSU's out there.

    PSU's work best at around 60% of maximum load anyway from an efficiency point of view

    Now whether his PSU is up to the job or failing is another matter. But that isn't even the same thing as what I originally wrote anyway...

    I never said his PSU was 100% fine and tip top because I don't actually know. It may be the problem, it may be not the problem. I didn't ever write that it was or wasn't either way, but you said that I did. Which I didn't because I can't possibly know that yet, check again.

    This is actually a well known fact that they overstate the requirements, that anyone can find out themselves in all of less than 5 minutes using google.

    Sorry you feel that way...that solid "facts" constructed with a sourced base are now misconstrued for arguments enough to throw the toys out the pram.

    What a charming helpful delightful fellow you are...ever considered taking anger management courses to work on that grandiose attitude ?

    Sometimes not everything is defined in black and white, my way or the highway approach. There are grey areas too where strange things can happen.

    And sometimes people have different opinions as well which don't tally with your own.

    With TDR's you need to both "isolate" and "explore" every and all angles to track down the culprit, no matter how ridiculous or stupid those ideas may seem in your superior worldly view.

    Just because they didn't happen to you doesn't make it a proof.

    Because the plain truth is the TDR's can be feasibly triggered by a multitude of sources and sometimes it helps to think "outside the box" when having these problems.

    That's all there really is to it, trying to help...having to provide justification in response based on well known facts is not a requirement to help him, and does nothing to help solve his issue. What good comes of it if he throws a perfectly good PSU or GFX card in the trash if the problem actually lies elsewhere when it can be any number of things.

    So what he in fact needs to do thinking again in retrospect to save him the most money, is eliminate and isolate all else from the problem until he's reached the PSU last, before wasting money on a highly expensive but no doubt quality PSU he may not even need or require in the first place. Even then he could just borrow someone else's to diagnose his own...and if it still doesn't fix it then it's a software problem.

    We can harp on about chicken brand junky PSU's all day and recommend X,Y and Z, but common sense tells you that you test out the cheap stuff first and work backwards so you may not have to buy the more expensive stuff you don't need hastily in error. Who's logic is flawed now ?

    I've been in this game since the time when computers were nothing more than switches and knobs. And I'd rather think things through fully, and fix things with a scalpel than a hammer personally.

    And the logic in doing that isn't flawed...nor needs justifying just because it doesn't fit in with your own ideas, so don't be so narrow minded to the way other people go about diagnosing and fixing problems.

    Would you replace the engine in your car just because it ran out of petrol ?

    No I didn't think so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  12. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    What specs do you need? All of them are in the speccy link i gave in the OP, however if you need more information I can give the basic one:

    OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
    Amd Phenom II X4 965 Processor, 3400 MHz, 4 cores
    ASUS M4N98TD EVO Motherboard
    ATI Radeon HD Sapphire 6770 1GB DDR5
    4 GB RAM (2x Patriot 2GB RAM)

    All the BSOD's are the same, yeah. Only one time I got a different one for 'atikmdag.sys' but that was when I removed the atikmpag.sys driver lol.

    As far as I can remember the errors happened before I changed the PSU, I will confirm this for tomorrow but I'm almost certain it happened before.

    I was quite surprised because, in fact, that PSU in the image you posted is the one I'm using hahaha :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  13. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I've sent you a pm.
     
  14. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    Tried to reply, but it seems I need 15 posts before being able to PM or even reply other people, sorry.

    However... thanks a lot for the links :) I have updated the GPU drivers before but I wanted to try using the ones i had previous to the BSOD's. It was no good. I remember that when I installed the GPU it worked fine: I had no BSOD's whatsoever, even when I played some "new" games that exhausted my PC resources like Skyrim or Shogun 2 Total War, but suddenly, after an update, it started to fail. It might be a coincidence that I didnt get any BSOD's before though, but it would be extremely rare.

    Also, this might sound dumb, haha, but how can I install the BIOS update? I get a .rom file and I dont know how to use it. Not to be lazy but it seems I'd have to enter the BIOS setup and do some stuff, after that I get kinda lost in the instructions.

    I'll check the plugs tomorrow morning too and post the answer here until I'm able to reply the PM's.
     
  15. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    What kind of update was it? If u tried the ones from the link I sent u then you can rule out drivers altogether, best to be sure though.


    Also...
    Is hardware acceleration enabled in Chrome because your GPU clocks are maxed out in speccy, and they shouldn't be. Can u run GPU-Z in desktop/browser and watch GPU load.

    And please move the power slider across to 20% in Catalyst to stop the clocks jumping around.
     

  16. WoenK

    WoenK Active Member

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    sudden failures after an update are not that rare, I get most of mines after one...sometimes it changes the powerenvelope beyond the breaking point, luck simply kept it running before that.

    When was the last time you cleaned your computer?
    And how old is your PSU?
    Electronic components age, cheaper PSUs faster sometimes.
    Combine that with a lot of dust on the fans and components and anything can happen.
    Also you have quite some old hardware in it, that Maxtor alone might need 40W,the Hitache around 25W,DVD another 25W, GPU another 105W and the CPU another 125W. Add a few fans with 5-10W each (double that when they are dirty) and you were lucky it functioned so far.

    Not saying that cheap PSUs are allways a bad choice, but from my experience they break sooner and more often. No need to buy the best, but the cheapest is never good.
    If you are unlucky you will find out when it goes up in smoke.
    If you really have to stick to that setup, get a better PSU and avoid no-name ones. No need to get a platinum rating for 100 USD.

    Computer nowadays are not meant to last 5 years, if it last beyond 3 you are lucky.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  17. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    These are the readings I got in GPU-Z. I had the hardware acceleration option enabled, so I turned it off and then used the software.

    oi57.tinypic.com/2n0qc9.jpg
    oi58.tinypic.com/ou5hxi.jpg

    The update I installed back then was 13.9 or something like that. I have tried installing the AMD drivers before that but the BSODs still happen. Going to install the new drivers you sent me via PM now and move the power slider to 20% after that, then report.

    I still have to check the plugs though.

    @WoenK

    I cleaned my PC 4 days ago. The PSU is 2 years old, aproximately and if memory doesnt fail me.

    Some of my other pieces are very old, yeah. I dont update my PC a lot because i dont need a super high quality one. An 'ok' pc for work and a bit of gaming is the best for me.

    I'm going to give this PC a few more tries to solve the issue. If changing some hardware can solve it, could I ask you guys what quality pieces should I buy to have a decent gaming/game development PC?

    Thanks a lot for the help so far. I'll report back in a few hours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  18. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    A decent power supply for starters.

    I've seen a cheap 450W Task PSU burst into flames running just a Phenom II and 6800GT.

    Btw looking at your first post again I see you had black screens before a BSOD, on first reading it I thought it was blue screening immediately.
    It is possible for Vram to cause black screens (GPU reset) like that other guy said, a kernel BSOD will then occur after 5 or 7 resets (I forget the exact number) within one minute.
    However I still don't think this is a factor in your case, for different reasons.


    Btw that speccy report shows a smart warning on one of your hard drives, I think it could be the Maxtor. Might need replacing soon....
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  19. edgarbh01

    edgarbh01 Guest

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    Yes I'm going to change the pieces soon, probably. I need a good power supply, a new GPU, more RAM and change this old HDD.

    The black and blue screens happen, sometimes after the image freezes a few times. I used to note the "stutter" at first but now its almost as if it ocurred randomly. It's possible it happened after I changed the GPU, but it's really weird that I didnt get any BSODs in the first weeks or even months...

    Changing the pieces could solve the problem? Should I do something before that for a last check? Sorry to bother with one more question: could i get some recommendations for the pieces? I'm going to look for a quality PSU this time, maybe a 'CoolerMaster', i think they are called?

    Thanks a lot for lending me a bit of your time to help. :)
     
  20. CalculuS

    CalculuS Ancient Guru

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    Cooler Masters are usually decent. Never only look at total wattage.
     

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