Something I do not understand about the Xbox One's "weakness"

Discussion in 'Consoles & console games' started by Serotonin, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Serotonin

    Serotonin Ancient Guru

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    From what I've read (some sites say 10, some say 5, seems the most legit is 8), MS says the hardware in the XB1 is 8x stronger than the 360.

    So with this power, why then are developers having such a hard time hitting 1080 on games that are from last gen?

    A perfect example is the new Diablo 3 Ultimate Evil Edition that has released on both ps4 and xbox one.

    Why is a game like this so hard for the x1 to hit 1080p60? It's a game that runs on even low end pc's and has already been made for 360/ps3. I'm sure those last gen consoles had a lower resolution, but if the machine is 8x more powerful, how the hell is it such a feat to get 1080?

    Titanfall is another example. I know the resolution is lower on the 360 as is the detail. But when you put the 360 version up to the xbox one version, I don't look at one and say "that's def. 8 times more powerful and doing way more than the other". They look pretty identical and yet the xb1 (maybe they've patched it by now can't hit 1080 on it?

    But then on the flipside, I see a game like Ryse, that is yes, 900p, but looks amazing. How do you get a game that looks that good to run at 900p and struggle to get diablo 3 to run at 1080p?

    It just doesn't make sense to me. Quantum Break, Fable Legends...those both look incredible...yet other developers can't port a game like Battlefield 4 from last gen to run 1080 on the machine.

    Can anyone make sense of this for me?

    I own both new systems, so this isn't a fanboy rage thread. I'm genuinely curious as to why it's such a struggle. Do the entertainment functions really hog up that many of the systems resources?
     
  2. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    It could be that the XBONE is harder to programme than the PS4 is. Which would explain why developers are able to scale to 1080p much easier. I know it was something the Mark cerny talked about a lot when they were asking developers what they wanted. Everything you see with the PS4 is all from direct feedback sent back from developers, that's the difference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  3. nz3777

    nz3777 Ancient Guru

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    Do xbox 360s run at 1080p? Iam just curious it says 1080p on back of the game and I have ours hooked up to my old Asus monitor that is 1920x1080 it looks really nice but I have no way of knowing if iam actually running at 1080p or not. Its in fullscreen mode so it seems to be the case? I could be wrong tough.
     
  4. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    well xbone has weaker gpu by default, programing isnt that different now like it was with PS3 vs x360.
     

  5. anxious_f0x

    anxious_f0x Ancient Guru

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    I think basically, the reason games like Quantum Break, Ryse etc manage to look great on the XB1 is because that was the target platform from the beginning, so they are able to get the most out of the hardware.

    Last gen consoles had very weak GPU's and not so terrible CPU's, so developers found ways of offloading work from the GPU onto the CPU.

    With this new gen of consoles it's almost reversed, fairly low power (per core) CPU's with (In the PS4's case at least) decent powered GPU's, So to port old games over to new consoles actually takes quite a lot of reverse engineering from a game engine perspective and I doubt most devs will put to much time in reworking their engines to get it running well at 1080p, so the quickest and easiest (and cheapest) solution is to slap on a 30fps cap and drop the resolution.

    As devs start to drop support for last gen things will no doubt improve for both XB1 and PS4, but while devs are still spreading themselves over 5 and in some cases even 6 platforms, dropping the resolution to get decent framerates will always win over spending time optimizing specifically for one troubled platform.
     
  6. Steppzor

    Steppzor Master Guru

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  7. keasy

    keasy Banned

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  8. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Problem is i simple imo, They should of NEVER used mobile cpu/apu in themthose cpu they used are not acceptable imo and why i wont buy ps4 till it drops under 200$ cause for 399 the ps4 costs. Which barely more powerfull then my 5 year pc in best of cases and worse in every other case.

    I can buy a CPU/RAM/MB for the 399$ and update anyone of my pc that will pretty much make the ps4 look like joke performance wise.

    Even worse those low power cpu where supposed to keep the heat down, yet the ps4 is louder then launch ps3 and that actual had 3ghz 8 core cpu too.

    They touted 1080p last gen it never happened they said 1080p again this gen and there still have issue with that. 4 years pc will be default 2k if not higher and these consoles will probably still have issue with 1080p.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
  9. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    We are starting to see more games at 1080p, just that they are slow to appear. 2015 will be the year these consoles begin to shine. GTA 5 will be a good example of what a experienced is able to produce to a very high level.
     
  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I've said it before: the Xboxone reminds me of the Sega Saturn. Too much complacency by the company in light of competition and arrogance over what the market wanted.

    Gamers wanted 1080P and 60 FPS on all games.
    Developers do not want their game to look like rubbish compared to other titles on the same platform.
    No one wanted or was interested in the teeveeteeveeteevee aspect, from devs to gamers to mass market consumers.

    As a result of all of this the hardware was practically an afterthought concerning games, developers will make their game have the same quality as other games and gamers get bent over.

    In the end, the Saturn failed to the Playstation which paved the way for Microsoft to enter the market and Nintendo continued doing what they always do.

    IMHO I believe 1080P is not difficult on the Xbox or any platform, but as developers do not want their game to look bad, they won't do it - even though by lowering the resolution they are already doing it....just without lowering the texture resolution...so games are using more texture memory than they need to...does anyone have a spare palm they can slam into my face?
     

  11. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I think this is the main reason. The Xbox is weaker than the PS4 and the only way to compensate that is using the ESRAM. But third party developers that make games for several platforms aren´t going to waste time coding specifically to take advantage of the Xbox´s ESRAM when they don´t have to do it for PC and PS4.
    So those games are going to have an harder time reaching the 1080P target. On the other hand, first party games developed only to the Xbox, like Forza and Halo, are going to look better than other games because they are going to all the hardware power provided by the machine.

    And we can´t forget that both the PS4 nad Xbox one are using cheap and outdated hardware, so companies are always going to have a hard time reaching great visuals...
     
  12. anxious_f0x

    anxious_f0x Ancient Guru

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    PS3 wasn't an 8 core CPU, it's a single core that can manage 2 threads with 8 SPE's of which one is disabled to maintain yields and another is reserved for the OS, SPE's were great if used correctly, but they are in no way a replacement for actual CPU cores. They were the saving grace of the PS3 in the end though as tasks the GPU wasn't capable of were offloaded on to them.

    My PS4 isn't anywhere near as loud as my launch model PS3, that thing was loud! Even my PS3 slim is louder than my PS4 due to the really noisy Blu Ray drive, games like GTA V where it's streaming textures directly from disc are unbearable.
     
  13. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Guest

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    The PS4 has a similar GPU to the XBone but it has more shaders, which means they have more headroom with resolution.
     
  14. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    Plus the 8GB DDR5 RAM.
     
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Which acted as 8 which is still clocked higher then cpu in the ps4/xboxone nor was it Mobile chip ment for low power usages.

    And the fan in the ps4 is louder then my luanch ps3 fan which kicked in less then 15min, the slim ps3 fan is much much quieter then both the ps3 luanch and the ps4 launch fans
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014

  16. anxious_f0x

    anxious_f0x Ancient Guru

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    Except they didn't act as 8 CPU cores at all being SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) and all, great at number crunching, not so great at branching code that games use.

    A modern 4 core x86 cpu will outperform Cell almost everywhere, except pure SIMD performance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  17. boodikon

    boodikon Ancient Guru

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    Xbox One GPU:

    1.18TFLOPS (available for games) from 12 CU. (X1 has 1.32TFLOPS but 10 percent GPU reserved for system)
    768 Shaders
    48 Texture Units
    16 ROPS
    2 ACE with 8 queues each = 16 queues total

    Playstation 4 GPU:

    1.84TFLOPS from a total of*18 Compute Units +56%
    1152 shaders 50%
    72 Texture Units + 50%
    32 ROPS + 100%
    8 ACE with 8 queues each = 64 queues total +400%

    The ACE Queues seems a massive difference how important are they. ?
     
  18. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    MS tried to be a jack of all trades with the xb1 at the expenses of their core audience, the gamer, and because of that arrogance they are now the master if none.

    Which in a way might be a good thing in the long run for the gamer, nothing humbles and brings these big corporations back to the gamer more that a public bloody nose.
     
  19. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Guest

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    That's exactly what happened with Sony and the PS3. They learned their lesson.

    Personally I am more of a xbox fanboy. I just finally bought the xbox one this weekend and am enjoying it so far. My main issue with it is the awful metro interface. I liked it on Windows Phone when I had one but it sucks on the console. I do like the snap feature though.
     
  20. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Wow that's a huge difference, I thought its less :D

    Double the ROP and more texture units, helps a lot by higher reso. MS did a very stupid move there.

    and yeah those queues seem to do some wonders to, looks like extra compute engine?
     

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