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Power outage did something to my pc.
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IceVip
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Default Power outage did something to my pc. - 08-07-2014, 22:19 | posts: 42

Recently i've been having a lot of power outages and the last one
that hit me(there's probably 10000 more to come) did something that i can't
i cant figure out.

So after the power outage i turned on my pc, everything was fine..
it booted to win fine, then i open after effects and as soon as it popped up
i saw this weird glitch, like in the center of the monitor there were 10 RGB
colored lines and the rest of the screen was black, first guess was gpu.

I saw that glitch for 0.1 sec then the pc instantly shut down.
So on the next bootup everything was fine, i repeated what i did and i
opened after effects, oddly enough it didn't glitch. So i started benchmarking
the pc, 3dmark 11 and aida's cpu benches, then i opened aida's disk bench
and the program closed, so i opened the program again and this happened.

http://i4.minus.com/innfhpzJzv38e.png

when i move my mouse onto a icon, the icon shows and the black disappears
but only for the section at which the icon was. like u see in the pic.
Anyways does anyone have any idea what is causing this?
gpu > artificial glitch after loading afx
ram/disk > after closing aida64 out of nothing?
gpu > the black screen with icons bug.
   
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Luigi2012SM64DS
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Default 08-08-2014, 07:00 | posts: 16

Your gpu could be fried. Maybe your hard drive could be the culprit? Good idea to run chkdsk after an outage.
   
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---TK---
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Default 08-08-2014, 11:14 | posts: 18,366 | Location: New Jersey, USA

Either the gpu or Windows got borked with all those poeer outage shutdowns. If u have a spare drive reinstall windows. .
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 14:40 | posts: 1,233 | Location: Langley,B.C. Canada

You should really think about getting a UPS chances are if you are having multiple power outages it is fluctuating as well.This will fry something over time.
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 14:44 | posts: 7,641

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmcmillan View Post
You should really think about getting a UPS chances are if you are having multiple power outages it is fluctuating as well.This will fry something over time.
Definitely agreed, with that many power outages it's pretty much a necessity. Even for those that rarely if ever have problems like that I'd still recommend at least using a surge protector.
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 15:03 | posts: 1,436 | Location: Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceVip View Post
Recently i've been having a lot of power outages and the last one
that hit me(there's probably 10000 more to come) did something that i can't
i cant figure out.

So after the power outage i turned on my pc, everything was fine..
it booted to win fine, then i open after effects and as soon as it popped up
i saw this weird glitch, like in the center of the monitor there were 10 RGB
colored lines and the rest of the screen was black, first guess was gpu.

I saw that glitch for 0.1 sec then the pc instantly shut down.
So on the next bootup everything was fine, i repeated what i did and i
opened after effects, oddly enough it didn't glitch. So i started benchmarking
the pc, 3dmark 11 and aida's cpu benches, then i opened aida's disk bench
and the program closed, so i opened the program again and this happened.

http://i4.minus.com/innfhpzJzv38e.png

when i move my mouse onto a icon, the icon shows and the black disappears
but only for the section at which the icon was. like u see in the pic.
Anyways does anyone have any idea what is causing this?
gpu > artificial glitch after loading afx
ram/disk > after closing aida64 out of nothing?
gpu > the black screen with icons bug.
I am thinking that it either it is the Graphics card or your memory (RAM) that got fried. Because of the the way the screen is acting in your screen shot. Massive slow down.
   
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IceVip
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Default 08-08-2014, 17:26 | posts: 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Definitely agreed, with that many power outages it's pretty much a necessity. Even for those that rarely if ever have problems like that I'd still recommend at least using a surge protector.
Thing is this shouldn't even be happening, i live in the capital of bulgaria, and for
the first time since.. ever, the main just stops for 5 minutes per 4 hours and
basically this is just absurd.. None of my friends have ups because this never
happens here, i don't know what is wrong but this crap is continuing for a week
now..
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 18:44 | posts: 4,734 | Location: Washington DC

I had the same thing happen to an old laptop and it ended up being the GPU
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 13:22 | posts: 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceVip View Post
None of my friends have ups because this never
happens here, i don't know what is wrong but this crap is continuing for a week
Power outages and low voltages do not damage any electronics. Anomalies that might cause a blackout might cause damage. A UPS does not even claim to protect from those anomalies.

Your problem is why better computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics. Diagnostics would have immediately identified a bad memory, GPU, or most every other part in the computer. Since most, using only wild speculation, are identifying most every computer part for the failure.

For example, disk drive. Identify a disk drive's manufacturer. Go to their web site. Download a hardware diagnostic for that drive. Either the drive is good or bad - without any doubts or speculation. Same applies to other parts. Either get the manufacturer's diagnostic. Or download a third party diagnostic (ie Memtst86 to test memory).

One system that can only be identiifed with a digital meter are many components of the power system. With a meter, one minute labor, and some instructions, then the entire power system can be exonerated. Or the defective part in that system identified.

Follow the evidence is why a fewer and informed use meters, diagnostics, and other useful tools. Others, using a technique called shotgunning, just wildly choose some part to blame. First select which technique you will use.

Last edited by westom; 08-09-2014 at 13:25.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 13:51 | posts: 7,641

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Power outages and low voltages do not damage any electronics. Anomalies that might cause a blackout might cause damage. A UPS does not even claim to protect from those anomalies.
Power surges can, and they tend to walk hand in hand with problematic power systems. As for power outages not damaging electronics, that's not really the question now is it? There are components in computers that can potentially be damaged by sudden power loss, although it's far less likely now than it was with older hardware. The problems the OP describes are very likely connected to a power related issue, as I said: Everyone should at least run a surge protector.

Troubleshooting hardware piece by piece is of course a given. That said, the statements the OP has made point to certain pieces of hardware being more likely to be at fault than others. That is part of the troubleshooting process, and good start area.

PS: I was going to comment on your general attitude, but then I took a look at your post history.

Last edited by Darkest; 08-09-2014 at 14:13.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 14:58 | posts: 179 | Location: Thailand

I get power outages at least 4 times a day. Sometimes the power goes off for a few seconds, other times for a few hours. All i use is a power surge plug. I have used a UPS before but it seemed no better than a power surge plug and i have never lost any hardware due to power outage.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 15:32 | posts: 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Power surges can, and they tend to walk hand in hand with problematic power systems. As for power outages not damaging electronics, that's not really the question now is it? There are components in computers that can potentially be damaged by sudden power loss, although it's far less likely now than it was with older hardware.
If any component can be damaged by a sudden power loss, then that component is listed. Was designing this stuff long before PCs existed. No part was damaged by a sudden power off.

Well, older filesystems (ie FAT) once caused data loss. That weakness was eliminated after 1990 by newer (current) filesystems. Meaning even data on a disk drive is no longer deleted by a power loss.

Sudden power loss does not damage or even threaten hardware. But the myth is popular in hearsay especially when the 'at risk' part cannot be listed.

OP's symptoms are just as likely due to a change in Windows. Testing video without Windows (ie maybe on the Ultimate Boot CD) is more informative. Especially when no hardware changes (ie disconnected cable) is involved.


Plug-in protectors do not even claim to protect from a type of surge that might also cause a power loss. Something completely different (unfortunately also called a surge protector) is required to protect robust electronics from those transients. And to protect less robust plug-in protectors.

Anomalies that might cause a blackout can potentially cause hardware damage. A UPS or other plug-in protector does not even claim to protect from that type anomaly. But another, less expensive, and well proven solution does that protection. Meanwhile, the OP has no reason (yet) to even believe that caused his failure.

OP has two strategies. One that just removes parts on speculation can also exponentially complicate the problem (ie suspecting CPU temperature or disk drive was not even probable). Another, faster, and easier solution identifies a defect before even disconnecting one wire. One can either shotgun or 'follow the evidence'.
   
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---TK---
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Default 08-09-2014, 16:44 | posts: 18,366 | Location: New Jersey, USA

I sure had data losses after 1990. And several borked windows installs due to power outages. You get a bsod at the wrong time can also bork windows installs too. Op problem may be a direct result of the power outages. A battery backup for the 5 minute outages is recommended to as he gets them frequently. As to whats borked either software or hardware is any body's guess as we do not have any real relevant info from op. To completely discount the power outages appears to be premature.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 17:22 | posts: 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by ---TK--- View Post
I sure had data losses after 1990. And several borked windows installs due to power outages.
A problem that existed with Operating Systems that still used obsolete file systems including Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows ME.

A power loss with those obsolete filesystems meant loss of data that was being saved. And also loss of an older file copy already saved to disk. Nobody today should have a filesystem that loses data on power loss.

Power outages do not damage hardware. That myth remains dispite not even one hardware item identified as at risk. If a power loss can cause hardware damage, then please say how.

Last edited by westom; 08-09-2014 at 17:24.
   
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Darkest
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Default 08-09-2014, 17:50 | posts: 7,641

You seem to change your tune a lot, at first it was 1990, now it's early 2000's? Make your mind up already. Power "loss" had the potential to damage HDD's in the past, although that isn't very likely with any modern drive. The problem as has been mentioned tends to walk hand in hand with power loss, power surges are not uncommon in areas that have problematic power supplies. Power coming back on after a power loss can cause surges and potential problems, and that's just to start.

I'm not sure why but you have a tendency to skirt issues and give half answers, while presenting a passive-aggressive sentiment in your posts.

Last edited by Darkest; 08-09-2014 at 17:53.
   
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---TK---
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Default 08-09-2014, 17:54 | posts: 18,366 | Location: New Jersey, USA

Did he edit out the early 2000s part in his edited post?^^^^^
   
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Darkest
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Default 08-09-2014, 17:56 | posts: 7,641

Not that I can see, but Windows ME (which he brought up) was released in the year 2000, and support didn't fully end until 2006. Terrible O/S but the point stands.

Last edited by Darkest; 08-09-2014 at 18:00.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 18:53 | posts: 9,103 | Location: Toledo

Power loss can seriously mess up solid state electronics. It's fairly common for a line to be extremely dirty while it's being repaired. So while the outage itself won't break anything, the ripple that follows sure can. Modern PSU's can filter it to an extent, but it takes it's toll on the MOV filters and other related components. Dirty power is extremely hard on capacitors and will shorten component life. Surges are a different story. A large enough one can wreak mass destruction. Thankfully they're not very common, although most regular surge protectors are borderline useless in a major one (ala lightning strikes).

So to sum up, a power loss in itself is unlikely to do damage unless it is accompanied by a surge due to the nature of the line failure. Leaving sensitive electronics plugged in without a UPS as a buffer subjects them to dirty power, especially when power is restored after an outage.

Last edited by IcE; 08-09-2014 at 19:05.
   
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---TK---
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Default 08-09-2014, 19:23 | posts: 18,366 | Location: New Jersey, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Not that I can see, but Windows ME (which he brought up) was released in the year 2000, and support didn't fully end until 2006. Terrible O/S but the point stands.
I see it now apparently windows me was released before 1990. As well as the other fat 32 os like 95 and 98.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 22:20 | posts: 16,427 | Location: US East Coast

If write-caching is enabled or write cache buffer flushing is disabled, a sudden power loss has the potential to cause data loss or data corruption.

With solid state drives, sudden power loss can damage the drive. It's a well known issue with some older Intel SSDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Leaving sensitive electronics plugged in without a UPS as a buffer subjects them to dirty power, especially when power is restored after an outage.
"Sensitive electronics" should be plugged into a UPS with a built-in power filter. APFC UPS models cost a bit more, but they're well worth it.

If the OP hasn't already, reinstalling Windows would be my first suggestion.


   
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---TK---
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Default 08-09-2014, 22:43 | posts: 18,366 | Location: New Jersey, USA

I mentioned reinstalling windows in post 3 but op made no mention if he did it or not.
   
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Default 08-09-2014, 22:46 | posts: 9,103 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
If write-caching is enabled or write cache buffer flushing is disabled, a sudden power loss has the potential to cause data loss or data corruption.

With solid state drives, sudden power loss can damage the drive. It's a well known issue with some older Intel SSDs.



"Sensitive electronics" should be plugged into a UPS with a built-in power filter. APFC UPS models cost a bit more, but they're well worth it.

If the OP hasn't already, reinstalling Windows would be my first suggestion.
I was implying APFC UPS, thanks for the correction.
   
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Darkest
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Default 08-09-2014, 22:54 | posts: 7,641

I think we've all been at least semi-clear about it having little to do with the initial 'power loss' scenario that a certain someone seems to focus on. It's the reactivation of power and the hardware the OP is running that contributes to the potential issue. To claim that his power outages have nothing to do with the problem, and that anyone else is 'shotgunning' to suggest it does (despite the correlation provided by the OP) is laughable in honesty.
   
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westom
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Default 08-09-2014, 23:03 | posts: 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
You seem to change your tune a lot, at first it was 1990, now it's early 2000's? Make your mind up already. Power "loss" had the potential to damage HDD's in the past, although that isn't very likely with any modern drive.
Numbers (1990 and Windows 95/98/ME) were correct. A reader interested in learning would then determine why those numbers were correct. Or asked for clarification in a truly respectful manner. If one's attitude is egoistical superiority, then the reply is as posted - accusatory, disparaging, and devoid of knowledge he should have learned.

Filesystems that could delete files on power loss were obsoleted after 1990 - as stated. But many consumers continued to buy obsolete technology Windows 95/98/ME. Those who knew computers were using HPFS, NTFS, and other superior filesystems before Windows 95 was released.

So, back to damage due to sudden power off. Nobody could list even one part damaged by a sudden power loss. No disk drives were damaged by sudden power loss even when drives were big boxes on the computer room floor or 70 pound monsters whose heads would even through your hand of the drive. One exception existed. An Interdata floppy drive was so defective as to erase track zero on an eight inch floppy. One of so many examples why Interdata died. Even disk drives that moved disk heads with motor oil were not harmed by power loss. Because that standard (no hardware damage due to power cycling) has been standard probably longer than most everyone here has existed.

Hearsay and urban myths tend to become facts among computer assemblers. Those fables are why many believe sudden power loss is destructive. Any such statement without reasons why and numbers is usually junk science.

A myth of damage due to power loss is settled since no one can even cite one part or component damaged by power off. Move on.

More myths. MOVs obviously are not filters. In fact, a typical MOV ignores all electricity until 120 volts rises to above 330 volts. A number even printed on each protector's box. If MOVs are implemented for frequent spikes or noise, then MOVs fail in weeks or months. Please learn from specification numbers before accepting unsubstantiated tales as fact. Or learn why computer power supplies are designed to withstand even 1000 volt spikes without damage. And without using MOVs. MOVs are for an anomaly that might occur maybe once every seven years. MOVs obviously are not filters. And are irrelevant to the OP's problem.

Best and robust protection inside a building is inside computers. No matter how 'clean' a UPS makes electricity, a computer first converts that 120 volts into well above 300 volts. And then into high voltage radio frequency spikes. That is 'dirtiest' electricity. Then superior filters/suppressors turn that 'intentionally made dirtiest' electricity into stable, smooth, regulated, and 'clean' low voltage DC. Anything an adjacent protector or UPS might do is already done better inside electronics.

An output from my 120 volt sine wave UPS is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Ideal power because electronics are so robust. That same UPS may be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Someone actually recommend plugging a protector into a UPS? Even UPS manufacturers quietly and blunt discourage that. But manufacturers do not like to admit why. A UPS in battery backup mode can be some of the 'dirtiest' electricity in the house. Harmful to power strip protectors. And because all electronics are so robust, that same 'dirty' UPS electricity is also ideal power.


Unfortunately many have jumped to conclusions without even trying to understand why original statements were accurate. Apparently many did not know a file system in Windows 95/08/ME was obsolete technology. Apparently many assume a UPS does things even its manufacturer does not claim. Apparently some are searching for emotions in these posts - that are 100% hard facts and numbers bluntly challenging what should have obvious to anyone making a recommendation.

OP's problems are not due to power loss. Obviously a CPU, its thermal cream, and disk drive have no relevance to his symptoms. Best way to identify a problem before trying to fix anything are manufacturer comprehensive diagnostics (from better manufacturers). Or third party diagnostics. Test each component or subsystem without adding the complications of Windows. Obviously one subsystem that must be tested is the video subsystem that includes GPU, video display, and other components.

Also necessary for an informed reply are numbers using a meter. Once hardware integrity is established (without speculation or doubt), then move on to what might be a software (ie Windows) problem.

Power loss did not cause hardware failures. But an anomaly that also caused a power loss might have. Neither a power strip nor UPS even claim to avert that type anomaly. But another and superior solution (that costs about $1 per protected appliance) would have. Of course, we do not even know if that anomaly existed - without first identifying what is actually damaged. By using diagnostics and other tools.

Please do not make conclusions by assuming facts and numbers were written wrong. Obviously the file systems in Windows 95/98/ME were obsolete technology. However many did not even know that. Nor the games played by IBM back then to, unfortunately, slow the release of better technology. A story the naysayers should have known before jumping to conclusions. And irrelevant to the OP's problem.

How the OP can locate a defect or obtain more useful replies is posted here and previously. With additional information to avert confusion by identifying some posted wild speculation and junk science reasoning. A first step to resolving the problem is collect facts such as from hardware diagnostics.

Last edited by westom; 08-09-2014 at 23:12.
   
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Darkest
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Default 08-09-2014, 23:05 | posts: 7,641

There's so much irony and outright nonsense in the above post I can't help but laugh. I'm literally only responding at this point to save others time: Don't bother reading it, it's a whole lot of horse piss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
OP's problems are not due to power loss. Obviously a CPU, its thermal cream, and disk drive have no relevance to his symptoms. Best way to identify a problem before trying to fix anything are manufacturer comprehensive diagnostics (from better manufacturers). Or third party diagnostics. Test each component or subsystem without adding the complications of Windows. Obviously one subsystem that must be tested is the video subsystem that includes GPU, video display, and other components.
Are you even trying at this point?

OBVIOUSLY A CPU THERMAL CREAM!!

Go back to whatever bar you got drunk in.

Last edited by Darkest; 08-09-2014 at 23:07.
   
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