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BenQ XL2430T 144 Hz 1ms Gaming Monitor
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Hilbert Hagedoorn
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Default BenQ XL2430T 144 Hz 1ms Gaming Monitor - 08-06-2014, 08:52 | posts: 21,572 | Location: Guru3D testlab

More news from benQ today as they release the¬*XL2430T Gaming Monitor.¬*There is a 1920 x 1080 resolution, 1ms G2G response time, 144Hz refresh rate, 1000:1 contrast ratio, 350 cd/m2 brightness and 17...

BenQ XL2430T 144 Hz 1ms Gaming Monitor
   
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Fox2232
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Default 08-06-2014, 09:40 | posts: 1,623 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Is this yet another great screen crippled by bad color management on firmware level?
   
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kanej2007
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Default 08-06-2014, 09:43 | posts: 6,999 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

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Originally Posted by Fox2232 View Post
Is this yet another great screen crippled by bad color management on firmware level?
You beat me to it...
   
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D4rKy21
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Default 08-06-2014, 16:56 | posts: 656 | Location: Netherlands

i prefer this then anything with the 3 letters IPS and a puke respons time and terrible input-lag, if u want a gaming monitor buy this, if u do video edeting or work @ a big company buy a ips, ips is not for gaming period, to much negative things not to count on one hand.
   
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Fox2232
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Default 08-06-2014, 17:18 | posts: 1,623 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

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Originally Posted by D4rKy21 View Post
i prefer this then anything with the 3 letters IPS and a puke respons time and terrible input-lag, if u want a gaming monitor buy this, if u do video edeting or work @ a big company buy a ips, ips is not for gaming period, to much negative things not to count on one hand.
Thing is I have XL2420T, and examined 1st hand what atrocities BenQ did at firmware level.
Their so called "fight against blue" is not worst of the bunch.
Worst is their internal 6-axis color crippling.

Edit: For Those wondering if their gaming/other profiles are OK:
- as you can see reference there are only smooth transitions. (unless your screen cripples color too)
- since it is taken with cellphone I had to apply gaussian blur to get rid of black spaces between pixels.
- but you can still see moire, so ignore it it is not one of monitors faults
- problems are:
-> Sharp Color Transitions
-> repeating color sections
-> misrepresentation OF RGB/CMY ranges
- in other words, if you want to use Gaming features you have to use one of their gaming profiles which is utterly broken (my gaming one is not)

Those are reasons why I really want to avoid another BenQ monitor since I do not trust even their IPS since they can take perfect screen and make an abomination.
 Click to show spoiler


Last edited by Fox2232; 08-06-2014 at 18:46. Reason: Typo.
   
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Default 08-06-2014, 17:38 | posts: 70 | Location: Gulf

if this comes in 27" I might consider selling my XL2720T and get it.
   
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scoter man1
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Default 08-06-2014, 20:42 | posts: 4,292 | Location: MI, USA

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Originally Posted by D4rKy21 View Post
i prefer this then anything with the 3 letters IPS and a puke respons time and terrible input-lag, if u want a gaming monitor buy this, if u do video edeting or work @ a big company buy a ips, ips is not for gaming period, to much negative things not to count on one hand.
You're really blowing input lag out of proportion unless you are somehow superhuman and can see stuff at a better rate than everyone else. I would argue that TN is not for gaming because the colors and viewing angle (not angles because there is only one point that it's semi decent) is so bad.
   
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Default 08-06-2014, 21:00 | posts: 209 | Location: Singapore

For competitive gaming, TN is the way to go.

Lower input lag and response times, can make a difference in games like Counter Strike. Generally better contrast ratios means better visibility in dark scenes. And narrow viewing angle can actually work in your favor, making it difficult for the guy next to you to see whats on your screen.

Its also the only option if you want to game at 120Hz/144Hz/3D

For everything else just get IPS

What I think about new high speed 120Hz/144Hz monitors, is that since they all come at a premium and cost is less of an issue for customers, might as well all come with Gsync because then it'd be easier to even get to 144Hz if you insist on having no screen tearing.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 01:40 | posts: 8,746 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

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Originally Posted by scoter man1 View Post
You're really blowing input lag out of proportion unless you are somehow superhuman and can see stuff at a better rate than everyone else. I would argue that TN is not for gaming because the colors and viewing angle (not angles because there is only one point that it's semi decent) is so bad.
Yep... cause everybody who uses their computer sits well off-center from their monitor on a constant basis. Please... pretty much the only people who should REALLY care about the viewing angle of a TN panel are the people who you say "Hey, come watch this" to.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 01:42 | posts: 7,859

Quote:
Originally Posted by D4rKy21 View Post
i prefer this then anything with the 3 letters IPS and a puke respons time and terrible input-lag, if u want a gaming monitor buy this, if u do video edeting or work @ a big company buy a ips, ips is not for gaming period, to much negative things not to count on one hand.
Speak for yourself, I'll take an IPS over a TN any day for gaming. It depends entirely on the sort of games you play. I'd rather have a screen that looks good, and frankly you're blowing input lag massively out of proportion. Unless you're playing at a professional level it's simply not a problem, unless you're so very dire at the games you play you need every possible edge you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huilun02 View Post
Its also the only option if you want to game at 120Hz/144Hz/3D
That's incorrect, a large number of the forum regulars are running 1440p IPS/PLS panels at 100-120hz. As have many other people for a few years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
Yep... cause everybody who uses their computer sits well off-centre from their monitor on a constant basis. Please... pretty much the only people who should REALLY care about the viewing angle of a TN panel are the people who you say "Hey, come watch this" to.
A lot of people like to mount monitors on walls or sit at angles from them due to room restrictions. Not everyone is in a position where they can sit directly in front of their monitors. It's an issue for some people, that's not difficult to comprehend.

Last edited by Darkest; 08-07-2014 at 01:51.
   
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Veteran
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Default 08-07-2014, 10:08 | posts: 10,826 | Location: United kingdom

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Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
and frankly you're blowing input lag massively out of proportion. Unless you're playing at a professional level it's simply not a problem, unless you're so very dire at the games you play you need every possible edge you can get.
This is true remember input lag is counted in milliseconds not seconds. By the time you count to 1 the time has already passed. Input lag and Milliseconds is blown out of proportion and does not matter a **** in my experience unless your an uber pro gamer who makes money from gaming its irrelavent.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 10:38 | posts: 4,639 | Location: Israel

When IPS monitor will have low input lag+144hz+Gsync/And/or 3D Vision 2, all this together let me know.
   
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Ven0m
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Default 08-07-2014, 10:43 | posts: 1,511 | Location: Warsaw, Poland

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Originally Posted by moab600 View Post
When IPS monitor will have low input lag+144hz+Gsync/And/or 3D Vision 2, all this together let me know.
There's an EIZO monitor that does pretty much that, just with 120Hz instead of 144Hz, low input lag instead of none, and no GSync.

I doubt EIZO will add GSync. They'll rather support adaptive vsync in the future. And the rest of companies? ASUS have clearly stated that they're not going to be bothered by non-TN panels in theire statement about ROG Swift 27" monitor and I think that the other manufacturers have similar reasoning. The current TN panels aren't that bad, especially when you look at ROG Swift. Having said that, I have only one small TN monitor and I'm using it just for notifications.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 11:11 | posts: 4,639 | Location: Israel

People need to let go of TN sucks because it's TN. i put my monitor again, the s23a700D is one of the best TN panels ever made, all that seen my screen agrees. it looks amazing.

TN have angle issue yes that something u need to consider, however TN is the only panel that is wide adopted for all new shiny tech, i rather have a "lower color accuracy" panel but with all the tech i want.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 11:42 | posts: 12,225 | Location: England

I absolutely cannot stand TN panels...they are awful in my humble view with washed out colours, lousy viewing angles, poor black levels (often looking purplish at certain angles), etc., etc. The best thing I ever did was buy an IPS panel and once you use one of those then it is difficult to go back. It's very much a case of not missing something until you try it IMO. I use a TN panel, a BenQ ironically, with my work PC so I'm reminded of just how bad they are every day. I don't think a higher refresh rate could make up for the many other deficiencies for me personally.

I will wait patiently until someone creates a non-TN panel with higher refresh rates. My own HP LP2475w monitor has been superb for gaming at 60 FPS and I have not noticed any excessive blurring or lag while gaming.
   
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Default 08-07-2014, 12:05 | posts: 1,307 | Location: UK

I've said it before, do NOT discount an MVA/PVA panel for quality.

I owned a 24" MVA panel for near on 7 years before giving it to a friend who still uses it now for PS3 and second monitor for laptop docking, and it STILL looks good.

TN's are only for 120+Hz and not to even be considered for anything else, because they really are terrible for anything else - but for FPS, they are godlike.
   
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Ven0m
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Default 08-07-2014, 12:44 | posts: 1,511 | Location: Warsaw, Poland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Hodgson View Post
I absolutely cannot stand TN panels...they are awful in my humble view with washed out colours, lousy viewing angles, poor black levels (often looking purplish at certain angles), etc., etc. The best thing I ever did was buy an IPS panel and once you use one of those then it is difficult to go back. It's very much a case of not missing something until you try it IMO. I use a TN panel, a BenQ ironically, with my work PC so I'm reminded of just how bad they are every day. I don't think a higher refresh rate could make up for the many other deficiencies for me personally.

I will wait patiently until someone creates a non-TN panel with higher refresh rates. My own HP LP2475w monitor has been superb for gaming at 60 FPS and I have not noticed any excessive blurring or lag while gaming.
You must have got better one. My LP2475W is really laggy, but I still like this monitor. There are some issues with backlit as it got worn-out after these years. When I was comparing it with EIZO T965 (CRT) in Counter-Strike, the difference was easily noticeable even with naked eye, but the blur wasn't that bad. I've been using it for gaming for over 5 years. Still, it's possible to make a fast panel with good quality. EIZO Foris are fast, TFT Central tested a few monitors, including 30" which have close to zero lag. My wide gamut Dell U2713H, which I use at work, is virtually as quick as CRT in Game Mode (TFT Central got defective one), but has some motion blur.

I think that there's some market for TN monitors. They aren't that bad now. But if one tries a monitor with really good image quality, it's difficult to get TN. Also, at least for me, IPS panels cause less fatigue over time. Nonetheless, I'll check ROG Swift monitor prices in a minute
   
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Fox2232
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Default 08-07-2014, 14:52 | posts: 1,623 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Hodgson View Post
I absolutely cannot stand TN panels...they are awful in my humble view with washed out colours, lousy viewing angles, poor black levels (often looking purplish at certain angles), etc., etc. The best thing I ever did was buy an IPS panel and once you use one of those then it is difficult to go back. It's very much a case of not missing something until you try it IMO. I use a TN panel, a BenQ ironically, with my work PC so I'm reminded of just how bad they are every day. I don't think a higher refresh rate could make up for the many other deficiencies for me personally.

I will wait patiently until someone creates a non-TN panel with higher refresh rates. My own HP LP2475w monitor has been superb for gaming at 60 FPS and I have not noticed any excessive blurring or lag while gaming.
Washed out color? If TN can have 98% sRGB coverage then it is same as IPS with 98% sRGB coverage.

And in all honesty most of nVidia users have digital vibrance enabled which burns color by increasing saturation in nV special way and that is not way people should see color on their screens.

You maybe not using digital vibrance, but I get feeling your TN was some of 1st prototypes, had bad firmware or was improperly calibrated.

And last 2 cases can happen even to IPS. When I look at IPS next to my main TN I can appreciate wide viewing angle and resistance to issues with displaying patterns.
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 04:27 | posts: 8,746 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

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Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
A lot of people like to mount monitors on walls or sit at angles from them due to room restrictions. Not everyone is in a position where they can sit directly in front of their monitors. It's an issue for some people, that's not difficult to comprehend.
Yes.... people mount monitors on walls. And in just about EVERY case, they have it tilted down in an angle that points it to where they'd generally be sitting/laying to view it. And I can't think of any reason why someone would sit at an angle from their monitor because of "room restrictions". If room restrictions result in you having to have your monitor facing one way while you look at it from another.... TURN THE MONITOR! How many monitors do you know of that don't have a base that can rotate, or have rotation in the stand itself? And if that still results in having to sit at an angle to your monitor because of "room restrictions"..... GET OUT OF THE CLOSET!
   
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scoter man1
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Default 08-08-2014, 04:52 | posts: 4,292 | Location: MI, USA

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Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
Yep... cause everybody who uses their computer sits well off-center from their monitor on a constant basis. Please... pretty much the only people who should REALLY care about the viewing angle of a TN panel are the people who you say "Hey, come watch this" to.
Thanks for your sarcasm, but as a previous 24" TN owner, there was no spot where the entire monitor could properly be viewed. That is, sitting right in front of it, straight on.
   
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ElementalDragon
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Default 08-08-2014, 09:40 | posts: 8,746 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks for your input.... but unless you're referring to sitting right in front of it, straight on, with your face mere inches away from the screen.... my 27" TN is calling your bluff.
   
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Ven0m
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Default 08-08-2014, 10:24 | posts: 1,511 | Location: Warsaw, Poland

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
Thanks for your input.... but unless you're referring to sitting right in front of it, straight on, with your face mere inches away from the screen.... my 27" TN is calling your bluff.
Tried this? http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php
   
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Fox2232
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Default 08-08-2014, 10:50 | posts: 1,623 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
That is designed to show weakness of TN technology (high contrast interleaving lines).
But it has as much value as most of synthetic benchmarks, because in real world you do not spend time watching interlaced patterns on screen while working, gaming, watching movies.

And if there were few places in game where you could happen to find high contrast horizontal lines with height of 1 pixel while gaming on 1080p, they would cover 1.4 pixels at 1440p and 2 pixels at 4k screens eliminating this TN weakness.
   
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Ven0m
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Default 08-08-2014, 12:42 | posts: 1,511 | Location: Warsaw, Poland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox2232 View Post
That is designed to show weakness of TN technology (high contrast interleaving lines).
But it has as much value as most of synthetic benchmarks, because in real world you do not spend time watching interlaced patterns on screen while working, gaming, watching movies.

And if there were few places in game where you could happen to find high contrast horizontal lines with height of 1 pixel while gaming on 1080p, they would cover 1.4 pixels at 1440p and 2 pixels at 4k screens eliminating this TN weakness.
It's not really 2 consecutive lines problem, but a demonstration of gamma shift. They used black and white lines to simulate grey next to regular grey color. If one scrolls down, there are solid color patterns, and some of them show huge shift. I had a bad TN monitor at work once, and saw blue text on grey background - near one edge of the screen, the text was brighter than background, and near other it was darker, producing a really nasty view.

I don't say that all the TN screens are evil and should be burnt. I rather wanted to find out if there are any that don't exhibit significant color shift weakness, as I'm interested in getting a G-Sync monitor.
   
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Default 08-08-2014, 15:02 | posts: 7,859

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
Yes.... people mount monitors on walls. And in just about EVERY case, they have it tilted down in an angle that points it to where they'd generally be sitting/laying to view it. And I can't think of any reason why someone would sit at an angle from their monitor because of "room restrictions". If room restrictions result in you having to have your monitor facing one way while you look at it from another.... TURN THE MONITOR! How many monitors do you know of that don't have a base that can rotate, or have rotation in the stand itself? And if that still results in having to sit at an angle to your monitor because of "room restrictions"..... GET OUT OF THE CLOSET!
You're barely worth responding to at this point. Some people have issues with the viewing angles due to space constraints and other reasons, end of story. You don't, that's brilliant for you - it doesn't change the fact that others do. Stop the childish tirade and get over it.
   
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