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3GB VRAM - barely enough. Is really true???
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MonarchX
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Default 3GB VRAM - barely enough. Is really true??? - 07-12-2014, 00:48 | posts: 193 | Location: Here

I am so perplexed about the "3GB VRAM is not enough for games" concept. It began with Watch Dogs' Ultra Textures settings. Yes, Ultra textures buffer up to 4GB of VRAM even @ 1080p in Watch Dogs. However, that doesn't mean that the game actually needs and uses 4GB of VRAM to run smoothly. AFAIK, even 6GB Titan systems produce just as much stuttering as 3GB GTX 780 card system sin Watch Dogs. There is no indication that extra VRAM actually improves Watch Dogs performance, at least @ 1080p.

I can understand the need for more than 3GB of VRAM when you cross the 1080p barrier and move into 1440p, which still doesn't seem to benefit from extra VRAM, and then of course 4K, which does benefit from more VRAM, but only in few games so far. Guru3D GTX Titan Black review very much confirms that even @ 4K, 6GB Titan Black performance just like a 3GB GTX 780 Ti with only 1 or 2 exceptions. I even downsample from 4K to 1080p several games, like Deus Ex HR - Director's Cut (with higher resolution textures), with no issues or a big performance hit. A buddy of mine with GTX 780 SLI @ 1250/7800Mhz and 5.5Ghz i5 2500K runs 90% of games @ 4K and almost never gets sub-60fps in most games, with exception like Crysis 3.

Now I AM concerned somewhat mostly because I only own a lousy EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX with 3GB of VRAM. I run games @ 1080p and I am not planning on moving to 4K until high quality 4K VA monitors with 5000:1 contrast ratio and backlight strobing appear on the market. For now my 24" 1080p Eizo Foris FG2421 @ 240Hz will do just fine.

In worse case scenario, I can settle for SMAA or FXAA or even no AA if MSAA takes extra VRAM in future games. I am really hoping to get about 45-60fps @ 1080p & all video settings set to Ultra + 4x MSAA or HQ SMAA in upcoming games for about 1 more year, but I don't expect consistent 60fps, rather 30-60fps, averaging @ 45fps. Is that too much to expect? I know my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz is quite out-dated along with 16GB 2200Mhz RAM @ 10-11-10-30 1T and my EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX at 1240/7500Mhz is somewhat on the low/mid-range level in the world of SLI systems and even single Classified Kingpin Edition card systems that pull 1450/8000Mhz GPU & VRAM clocks on air. But, my specs are not THAT bad/slow now, are they? Am I really going to suffer from stutters and sub-Ultra textures/settings with 3GB VRAM @ 1080p + SMAA or even no AA within less than 1 year from now? They say Witcher 3 runs at 60fps on a GTX 780 Ti stock (no OC) with 4x MSAA, but does only 45fps when MSAA is set to 8x, something I'd never use in a game. Witcher 3 looks incredibly graphically and the reported 60fps with GTX 780 Ti and 4x MSAA sounds really good! That wasn't even a full game, which means it wasn't even optimized. Yet, I am still worried...
   
 
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Default 07-12-2014, 00:56 | posts: 9,309 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post
I am so perplexed about the "3GB VRAM is not enough for games" concept. It began with Watch Dogs' Ultra Textures settings. Yes, Ultra textures buffer up to 4GB of VRAM even @ 1080p in Watch Dogs. However, that doesn't mean that the game actually needs and uses 4GB of VRAM to run smoothly. AFAIK, even 6GB Titan systems produce just as much stuttering as 3GB GTX 780 card system sin Watch Dogs. There is no indication that extra VRAM actually improves Watch Dogs performance, at least @ 1080p.

I can understand the need for more than 3GB of VRAM when you cross the 1080p barrier and move into 1440p, which still doesn't seem to benefit from extra VRAM, and then of course 4K, which does benefit from more VRAM, but only in few games so far. Guru3D GTX Titan Black review very much confirms that even @ 4K, 6GB Titan Black performance just like a 3GB GTX 780 Ti with only 1 or 2 exceptions. I even downsample from 4K to 1080p several games, like Deus Ex HR - Director's Cut (with higher resolution textures), with no issues or a big performance hit. A buddy of mine with GTX 780 SLI @ 1250/7800Mhz and 5.5Ghz i5 2500K runs 90% of games @ 4K and almost never gets sub-60fps in most games, with exception like Crysis 3.

Now I AM concerned somewhat mostly because I only own a lousy EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX with 3GB of VRAM. I run games @ 1080p and I am not planning on moving to 4K until high quality 4K VA monitors with 5000:1 contrast ratio and backlight strobing appear on the market. For now my 24" 1080p Eizo Foris FG2421 @ 240Hz will do just fine.

In worse case scenario, I can settle for SMAA or FXAA or even no AA if MSAA takes extra VRAM in future games. I am really hoping to get about 45-60fps @ 1080p & all video settings set to Ultra + 4x MSAA or HQ SMAA in upcoming games for about 1 more year, but I don't expect consistent 60fps, rather 30-60fps, averaging @ 45fps. Is that too much to expect? I know my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz is quite out-dated along with 16GB 2200Mhz RAM @ 10-11-10-30 1T and my EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX at 1240/7500Mhz is somewhat on the low/mid-range level in the world of SLI systems and even single Classified Kingpin Edition card systems that pull 1450/8000Mhz GPU & VRAM clocks on air. But, my specs are not THAT bad/slow now, are they? Am I really going to suffer from stutters and sub-Ultra textures/settings with 3GB VRAM @ 1080p + SMAA or even no AA within less than 1 year from now? They say Witcher 3 runs at 60fps on a GTX 780 Ti stock (no OC) with 4x MSAA, but does only 45fps when MSAA is set to 8x, something I'd never use in a game. Witcher 3 looks incredibly graphically and the reported 60fps with GTX 780 Ti and 4x MSAA sounds really good! That wasn't even a full game, which means it wasn't even optimized. Yet, I am still worried...
Are you serious right now? Did Vulture make another account?
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 01:04 | posts: 13,778 | Location: USA

Those lousy 3GB video cards are usless. Why on earth did you even get one? Better sell it and go get you something with 6GB.
   
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-Tj-
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Default 07-12-2014, 01:05 | posts: 8,343 | Location: Urban`Jungle

^
Exactly, lol calling no1 gpu crap kinda says it all..



Just get Titan Black or even better Titan-Z that will own it has 12gb ram dude!?!! xD
   
 
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Default 07-12-2014, 01:13 | posts: 2,427 | Location: Ohio

   
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Default 07-12-2014, 01:16 | posts: 809 | Location: Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post
I am so perplexed about the "3GB VRAM is not enough for games" concept. It began with Watch Dogs' Ultra Textures settings. Yes, Ultra textures buffer up to 4GB of VRAM even @ 1080p in Watch Dogs. However, that doesn't mean that the game actually needs and uses 4GB of VRAM to run smoothly. AFAIK, even 6GB Titan systems produce just as much stuttering as 3GB GTX 780 card system sin Watch Dogs. There is no indication that extra VRAM actually improves Watch Dogs performance, at least @ 1080p.

I can understand the need for more than 3GB of VRAM when you cross the 1080p barrier and move into 1440p, which still doesn't seem to benefit from extra VRAM, and then of course 4K, which does benefit from more VRAM, but only in few games so far. Guru3D GTX Titan Black review very much confirms that even @ 4K, 6GB Titan Black performance just like a 3GB GTX 780 Ti with only 1 or 2 exceptions. I even downsample from 4K to 1080p several games, like Deus Ex HR - Director's Cut (with higher resolution textures), with no issues or a big performance hit. A buddy of mine with GTX 780 SLI @ 1250/7800Mhz and 5.5Ghz i5 2500K runs 90% of games @ 4K and almost never gets sub-60fps in most games, with exception like Crysis 3.

Now I AM concerned somewhat mostly because I only own a lousy EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX with 3GB of VRAM. I run games @ 1080p and I am not planning on moving to 4K until high quality 4K VA monitors with 5000:1 contrast ratio and backlight strobing appear on the market. For now my 24" 1080p Eizo Foris FG2421 @ 240Hz will do just fine.

In worse case scenario, I can settle for SMAA or FXAA or even no AA if MSAA takes extra VRAM in future games. I am really hoping to get about 45-60fps @ 1080p & all video settings set to Ultra + 4x MSAA or HQ SMAA in upcoming games for about 1 more year, but I don't expect consistent 60fps, rather 30-60fps, averaging @ 45fps. Is that too much to expect? I know my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz is quite out-dated along with 16GB 2200Mhz RAM @ 10-11-10-30 1T and my EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX at 1240/7500Mhz is somewhat on the low/mid-range level in the world of SLI systems and even single Classified Kingpin Edition card systems that pull 1450/8000Mhz GPU & VRAM clocks on air. But, my specs are not THAT bad/slow now, are they? Am I really going to suffer from stutters and sub-Ultra textures/settings with 3GB VRAM @ 1080p + SMAA or even no AA within less than 1 year from now? They say Witcher 3 runs at 60fps on a GTX 780 Ti stock (no OC) with 4x MSAA, but does only 45fps when MSAA is set to 8x, something I'd never use in a game. Witcher 3 looks incredibly graphically and the reported 60fps with GTX 780 Ti and 4x MSAA sounds really good! That wasn't even a full game, which means it wasn't even optimized. Yet, I am still worried...
I would have liked the 780 ti to have more vram aswell... in sli they have more than enough power to crunch everything with high levels of sgssaa or ogssaa + texture mods, but get limited by their vram, and as so gets stuttering, despite fps being fine - i dont understand why nvidia always gimp their gaming gpu's in the vram department compared to AMD.
   
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MonarchX
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:32 | posts: 193 | Location: Here

I'm not trolling and I AM serious. If games will actually REQUIRE more than 3GB to run smoothly with Ultra textures and settings, but stutter with 3GB cards, then even 4x SLI GTX 780 Ti 3GB systems will stutter due to lack of VRAM. In such a case, it would make any GTX 780 Ti quite lousy! Many reviews these days say that 3GB is already NOT ENOUGH, meaning GTX 780 Ti 3GB is already mid-range at best. I was hoping that would be understood.

What I don't understand is WHY these reviews keep saying than 3GB is NOT enough, even when the very review results they display show than there is NO difference between 3GB and 6GB card performance??? I feels as if the people who typed up those reviews were PAID to say that to promote high VRAM products.

I mean FFS - Performance Tests Results:
Watch Dogs with 3GB VRAM card @ Ultra Textures = Stutter and same framerate as with 6GB card
Watch Dogs with 6GB VRAM card @ Ultra Textures = Stutter and same framerate as with 3GB card

Conclusion:
"Games like Watch Dogs and from now on all games need more than 3GB of VRAM and benefit from 4-6GB of VRAM, although both 3GB and 6GB produce identical framerate and stutter in exactly the same way.

Am I the only who thinks it is incredibly weird to be saying 3GB is not enough when there is no difference in performance or stutters between 3GB and 6GB cards??? How and why would they even say that? They know better than to make such a conclusion based on nothing but a single game's VRAM frame-buffer values, which does not mean that the game actually needs that much VCRAM to run and that is actually uses that much in any scene AND that all upcoming future games will be just like that, rendering 3GB as not enough for Ultra textures!!!
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:36 | posts: 7,857

Provide evidence to your statements or stop making claims.
   
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MonarchX
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:40 | posts: 193 | Location: Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorlor View Post
I would have liked the 780 ti to have more vram aswell... in sli they have more than enough power to crunch everything with high levels of sgssaa or ogssaa + texture mods, but get limited by their vram, and as so gets stuttering, despite fps being fine - i dont understand why nvidia always gimp their gaming gpu's in the vram department compared to AMD.
But the stutters have NOTHING to do with VRAM. 6GB cards also get just as much stuttering as 3GB card systems. That is my point. Watch Dog's frame buffer values are just that - frame BUFFER values. It doesn't run better with 6GB of VRAM and just because the frame buffer value is 4GB, doesn't mean that 4GB is needed to smoothly run the game. It simply pre-caches textures, but is may be using less than 2GB to display any given scene. You can pre-cache all textures and take up 64GB of VRAM, but again, its a meaningless number.

BG4 also caches more than 3GB of VRAM @ 1080p, but 2GB GTX 680 runs the game as the same FPS as 4GB GTX 680. There is no evidence, anywhere, than 3GB is not enough, at least for 1080p gaming. Yet, reviewers claim otherwise - why? I seriously think there is someone behind this that makes them say that or pays them to say that in order to promote product with more VRAM.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:42 | posts: 767 | Location: South Jersey

"It began with Watch Dogs"

Using the absolute worst optimized game to hit the PC since GTA IV as a basis for walls of text against 3GB of VRAM is laughable.
   
 
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:42 | posts: 7,857

Watch Dogs is a horrible game to base anything on, it's so broken it defies belief.

Unless you're going tri-fire or tri-sli at stupid resolutions you're probably just fine with 3gb of memory on Nv cards.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:42 | posts: 1,041 | Location: Washington

Round 2.....FIGHT!
   
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MonarchX
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:43 | posts: 193 | Location: Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Provide evidence to your statements or stop making claims.
I am the one debating the claims already made. What evidence do you want? Read Watch Dogs forums, where people with 6GB Titan cards have stutters. If VRAM was the reason 3GB cards produced stutters, then why would 6GB cards do the same???
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:44 | posts: 7,857

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post
I am the one debating the claims already made. What evidence do you want? Read Watch Dogs forums, where people with 6GB Titan cards have stutters. If VRAM was the reason 3GB cards produced stutters, then why would 6GB cards do the same???
Check my above post.

Watchdogs is a mess, it's not something you should base anything on.
   
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MonarchX
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:48 | posts: 193 | Location: Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Watch Dogs is a horrible game to base anything on, it's so broken it defies belief.

Unless you're going tri-fire or tri-sli at stupid resolutions you're probably just fine with 3gb of memory on Nv cards.
Exactly! And yet if you read Guru3D review of Titan Black, you'll find plenty of references and statements about 3GB not being enough for Watch Dogs and future games like GTA V. Why would they base their opinions regarding future games' VRAM needs on a terribly-optimized game? Its not just Guru3D - its also HardOCP and I think TechPowerUp and other review sites use Watch Dogs and claim that 3GB is not enough for future games! That is just absurd. Those reviewers aren't stupid people AFAIK, so why make such claims and why use such a badly optimized game as an example?
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:53 | posts: 7,857

I'd put it down to the fact it's a huge value release, it's a major part of the PC gaming community. For the current 'broken' version of the game those numbers might to an extent hold true, and in the future they will. But I'd say you've a few years yet before you need to worry with a current high end card needing more than 3gb of RAM at 1080p-1440p.
   
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PhazeDelta1
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Default 07-12-2014, 02:54 | posts: 13,778 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

Conclusion:

"Games like Watch Dogs or any other game for that matter developed by Ubisoft is going to run like dog sh!t no matter the hardware
Fixed that for you. There, you're problems are solved.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 03:33 | posts: 519 | Location: Novyy Yeropol

^lol.

OP, just enjoy your card. It's a beast and it'll last you a good while yet. And if you must play Ubisoft games, just buy a PS4.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 03:37 | posts: 26,812 | Location: Hampshire, UK

I just bought a playstation 4 because 3gb vram on my pc wasn't enough. 6gb at least from now on, even at 1080p.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 03:50 | posts: 4,343 | Location: Serbia, NS

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclap View Post
I just bought a playstation 4 because 3gb vram on my pc wasn't enough. 6gb at least from now on, even at 1080p.
I see what you did there.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 03:50 | posts: 13,778 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclap View Post
i just bought a playstation 4 because 3gb vram on my pc wasn't enough. 6gb at least from now on, even at 1080p.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undying View Post
i see what you did there. :d
lol...
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 05:41 | posts: 1,204

Nowadays games are being made for the new consoles. The PS4 has 8GB DDR5 so of course 3GB VRAM won't be enough. You'll want AT LEAST titans.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 06:07 | posts: 767 | Location: South Jersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2point0 View Post
Nowadays games are being made for the new consoles. The PS4 has 8GB DDR5 so of course 3GB VRAM won't be enough. You'll want AT LEAST titans.
You do realize that 8GB of DDR5 has to cover everything from the OS, games RAM needs and also the games VRAM needs right?
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 06:20 | posts: 38

I'm rockin 2gb of fury.

Now that new consoles are out I think us pc gamers will hit another upgrade lull. Between the release of the last gen and new gen of consoles I was running a gtx480 and really only needed to upgrade to a gtx680 just last spring. Be in mind I only play on a 1080p monitor so I don't need the juice to up the resolution. We can thank consoles for inhibiting graphics progression but also helping our wallets.
   
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Default 07-12-2014, 10:56 | posts: 3,839 | Location: The Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Tj- View Post
^
Exactly, lol calling no1 gpu crap kinda says it all..



Just get Titan Black or even better Titan-Z that will own it has 12gb ram dude!?!! xD
It has 6GB.

I still wonder why they havn't sorted SLI Memory out. Must be possible one way or another to double it instead of mirror.
   
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