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Just got bit again.
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Feed_Bucket
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Default Just got bit again. - 07-04-2014, 21:14 | posts: 30

I only have access to limited bandwidth (Verizon wireless) with a monthly cap of 10 gb and when you go over that it's like $20 per gb. With the new standards and practices of retail Steam games I find it to be quite a scam.

I just bought Batman: Arkham Origins, luckily it was cheap, and off the discs it only installed 9.2gb out of 18. Nowhere on the box does it say you will need to download half of the game. The only mention of a needed internet connection is to activate it. Needless to say the game is already in the garbage.

Now I always know I am expected to download some of the game when using the craptacular Steam but lately it has gotten worse. Is this strictly a means of counteracting piracy? I see no other logical reason for this. At this point I can no longer play any games that use Steam. From my experience I find that I praise the likes of Uplay and condemn Steam. At least with Uplay it installs the entire game off the discs and updates haven't been mandatory.

With the 3 discs of Batman: Arkham Origins, the first installed around 6gb, the second installed around 3gb, and the third was basically a blank disc. Isn't this a waste of money for them? Why even have a retail version of a game when only half of it is on the discs? I know for North America more and more games aren't getting a retail release and thus I know I can't play those games. So why do they feel the need to lie (scam) people by even releasing a retail version? I would say the majority of people who even buy retail is because of a lack of decent bandwidth. At this point I want to be an advocate for piracy. I won't practice it, because I can't, but I am all for them screwing over developers/distributors who are pulling this s***.

Too bad there isn't a (legit) third party service for people with limited bandwidth that could download the remainder of the game for you and put them on a disc then ship them to you. Hell, I'd even pay additional fees on top of the full retail price if the entire game was on the discs. Or at least give us the courtesy of printing on the box "High Speed, High Cap Bandwidth is required to install this game." and also print how much is expected to be downloaded.

I use to love Valve. It was the first Half Life that really got me into pc gaming. But now I despise them for introducing Steam and alienating long time pc gamers like myself who are unfortunate when it comes to available internet (also the lack of making games anymore, which I won't be able to play because they will require Steam, i.e. I can't play HL2 or any of the episodes).

   
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Default 07-04-2014, 21:56 | posts: 2,863 | Location: Canada

I read your post like, RANT, RANT, RANT......

Can't you go to the Library, McD, or some coffee shop and leach off their bandwidth?

Most games that have single player mode can be played in offline mode using Steam.
   
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Default 07-04-2014, 22:16 | posts: 744 | Location: South Jersey

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Originally Posted by Feed_Bucket View Post
With the new standards and practices of retail Steam games
This isn't new.. Retail discs for Steam games have contained half the game for years now..
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 00:38 | posts: 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflair View Post
I read your post like, RANT, RANT, RANT......

Can't you go to the Library, McD, or some coffee shop and leach off their bandwidth?

Most games that have single player mode can be played in offline mode using Steam.
So I am suppose to lug my tower to these places?

I know I can play single player offline but I can't play the game at all if I have to download half of it first.

Giving you half the game on discs is fairly recent I would say within the last year. I know for Bioshock Infinite, Metro LL, and some others I never had to download half of the game.

I just think there is a better solution to handling retail for people with crap internet but it's inconsequential to them so it will never change.

I remember when file planet (I think it was them) had a service that would burn files (mods, patches, etc) to a disc and mail them to you. It didn't last long but at the time when I had dial up it was awesome. I remember having them send discs with the videos of the Source engine demos.
   
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rflair
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Default 07-05-2014, 00:58 | posts: 2,863 | Location: Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed_Bucket View Post
So I am suppose to lug my tower to these places?

I know I can play single player offline but I can't play the game at all if I have to download half of it first.

Giving you half the game on discs is fairly recent I would say within the last year. I know for Bioshock Infinite, Metro LL, and some others I never had to download half of the game.

I just think there is a better solution to handling retail for people with crap internet but it's inconsequential to them so it will never change.

I remember when file planet (I think it was them) had a service that would burn files (mods, patches, etc) to a disc and mail them to you. It didn't last long but at the time when I had dial up it was awesome. I remember having them send discs with the videos of the Source engine demos.
Oh thought you might have a laptop, then just move the game after.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 01:23 | posts: 41 | Location: Taipei

Ah...the good old US of A and it's crappy outdated internet connections with ridiculous prices.... Had to put up with that when I lived in the US but now I'm enjoying my uncapped 60M/20M connection for 32USD a month here in Taipei and my unlimited bandwidth 3G service that's faster than 4G in the US. I get a kick out of hearing about my friends back in the US having their internet go out because of a thunderstorm...a freakin thunderstorm?! We have typhoons here and it doesn't even go out. I don't know why people put up with that crap in America, I mean it's the country that invented internet for crying out loud. Oh well.

Last edited by tensai28; 07-05-2014 at 01:25.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 01:47 | posts: 744 | Location: South Jersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by tensai28 View Post
having their internet go out because of a thunderstorm..
Impossible with the exception of a power outage or they are one of the rare people with satellite internet... The only other service in the U.S. that will be affected by a thunderstorm is if you have satellite TV. Cable/Fios TV/Internet is not affected by Thunderstorms.

My speeds are fine too.. No caps on either cable or cell (t-mobile).. Are our prices higher? Yes.. But we're not the dialup data cap nation you are implying



And that's on 1 Bar...

   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:00 | posts: 41 | Location: Taipei

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Originally Posted by styckx View Post
Impossible with the exception of a power outage or they are one of the rare people with satellite internet... The only other service in the U.S. that will be affected by a thunderstorm is if you have satellite TV. Cable/Fios TV/Internet is not affected by Thunderstorms.

My speeds are fine too.. No caps on either cable or cell (t-mobile).. Are our prices higher? Yes.. But we're not the dialup data cap nation you are implying



And that's on 1 Bar...

I was never implying that the US is a "dialup data cap nation" but where I'm originally from in the US, there's only Time Warner. I know fios is much better but they aren't available in most areas so lot's of people have to put up with crappy connection speeds at high prices. Your speed tests look decent but how are your actual download speeds? I had no trouble getting a decent looking speed test last time I was in the states but when it came to actual downloads, it was junk to be honest (at least on time warner, can't speak of verizon). Also I get full bars all over the country here but then again, it's probably easier to get full bars all over the country when your country is just an island...haha


Last edited by tensai28; 07-05-2014 at 02:16.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:03 | posts: 8,849 | Location: The Zone

Quote:
Originally Posted by styckx View Post
Impossible with the exception of a power outage or they are one of the rare people with satellite internet... The only other service in the U.S. that will be affected by a thunderstorm is if you have satellite TV. Cable/Fios TV/Internet is not affected by Thunderstorms.

My speeds are fine too.. No caps on either cable or cell (t-mobile).. Are our prices higher? Yes.. But we're not the dialup data cap nation you are implying



And that's on 1 Bar...

Power outages are extremely common in a lot of small town areas. Come on guys, he has a legitimate point. It's absurd to have retail Steam games locked to the tune of having to download over half the game to even play it. I'ts a retarded policy.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:15 | posts: 744 | Location: South Jersey

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Originally Posted by tensai28 View Post
I was never implying that the US is a "dialup data cap nation" but where I'm originally from in the US, there's only Time Warner.
Say no more.. I feel sorry for you.. Time Warner is awful... Now I see why you think the U.S. internet sucks..

Quote:
Your speed tests look decent but how are your actual download speeds?
Good. Comcast doesn't do that boost crap where your speeds are good for a half second before falling back into crap. Steam for instance is a steady 12MB/s down for huge downloads.. Comcast is hated around here because they are practically a monopoly but their service is impeccable.. At least from my experience here on the East Coast 5 miles from Philadelphia (their home city).. So my results might be biased due to this being their home turf.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:22 | posts: 41 | Location: Taipei

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Originally Posted by styckx View Post
Say no more.. I feel sorry for you.. Time Warner is awful... Now I see why you think the U.S. internet sucks..



Good. Comcast doesn't do that boost crap where your speeds are good for a half second before falling back into crap. Steam for instance is a steady 12MB/s down for huge downloads.. Comcast is hated around here because they are practically a monopoly but their service is impeccable.. At least from my experience here on the East Coast 5 miles from Philadelphia (their home city).. So my results might be biased due to this being their home turf.
Yeah, I was gonna say I've heard some pretty nasty things about Comcast. That's great to hear that the internet isn't bad everywhere over there. Luckily though, I'm in Taipei permanently so if a decent service never comes to my hometown, it wont make any difference to me anyways since I live here now.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:27 | posts: 2,073 | Location: USA, Pennsylvania

Almost correct. Where Comcast gets most of their heat is from throttling services like p2p, youtube, netflix, ect. It's no myth. I have Comcast, 1080p+ youtube vids load at more than twice the speed when using a VPN.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:35 | posts: 41 | Location: Taipei

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Almost correct. Where Comcast gets most of their heat is from throttling services like p2p, youtube, netflix, ect. It's no myth. I have Comcast, 1080p+ youtube vids load at more than twice the speed when using a VPN.
Yeah that is what I was hearing about comcast. I usually get 4.3-6.7 on torrents so I don't think they are throttling here. 1080p youtube plays flawless even on 3g here. They have 100m available (they have up to 300m in my area) for about 3USD more but I just didn't bother signing up for it because I really don't feel I need anymore than what I have. 4G came out this year too but once again...don't need it.

Last edited by tensai28; 07-05-2014 at 02:58.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 02:44 | posts: 143 | Location: Brazil

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Originally Posted by tensai28 View Post
Yeah that is what I was hearing. I usually get 4.3-6.7 on torrents so I don't think they are throttling here. 1080p youtube plays flawless even on 3g here. They have 100m available for about 3USD more but I just didn't bother signing up for it because I really don't feel I need anymore than what I have. 4G came out this year too but once again...don't need it.
Damn, and I'm happy when my dsl can take 720p.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 03:00 | posts: 684 | Location: Canada

So I am suppose to lug my tower to these places?


LULZ!!! I'm sorry, i just got a mental image of this and just fell off my chair...cause I saw this happen ONCE where I live...some guy...bringing a small tower into mcd's...and NOONE said anything..he just setup shop..and went to town. He didnt stay long though it seemed, maybe the manager chased him away, lulz!

..he DID look pretty disheveled though.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 03:12 | posts: 744 | Location: South Jersey

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Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
So I am suppose to lug my tower to these places?


LULZ!!! I'm sorry, i just got a mental image of this and just fell off my chair...cause I saw this happen ONCE where I live...some guy...bringing a small tower into mcd's...and NOONE said anything..he just setup shop..and went to town. He didnt stay long though it seemed, maybe the manager chased him away, lulz!

..he DID look pretty disheveled though.
People do this all the time at Starbucks

   
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Default 07-05-2014, 03:25 | posts: 41 | Location: Taipei

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Originally Posted by Feed_Bucket View Post
Is this strictly a means of counteracting piracy? I see no other logical reason for this.
I don't think making you download has anything to do with piracy. Maybe if it was 10-15 years ago when people pirated mostly by distributing discs to their friends but now with connections much faster than they used to be, everything is online and pirates are downloading the full game anyways. Arkham origins is on torrent and pirates are downloading it even as I write this, not copying their friends retail discs.

Last edited by tensai28; 07-05-2014 at 05:42.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 08:20 | posts: 1,140 | Location: Oregon

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Power outages are extremely common in a lot of small town areas. Come on guys, he has a legitimate point. It's absurd to have retail Steam games locked to the tune of having to download over half the game to even play it. I'ts a retarded policy.
Welcome to PC gaming like 6 years ago. It's a necessary evil.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 09:40 | posts: 886 | Location: London

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Originally Posted by Feed_Bucket View Post
I only have access to limited bandwidth (Verizon wireless) with a monthly cap of 10 gb and when you go over that it's like $20 per gb. With the new standards and practices of retail Steam games I find it to be quite a scam.

I just bought Batman: Arkham Origins, luckily it was cheap, and off the discs it only installed 9.2gb out of 18. Nowhere on the box does it say you will need to download half of the game. The only mention of a needed internet connection is to activate it. Needless to say the game is already in the garbage.

Now I always know I am expected to download some of the game when using the craptacular Steam but lately it has gotten worse. Is this strictly a means of counteracting piracy? I see no other logical reason for this. At this point I can no longer play any games that use Steam. From my experience I find that I praise the likes of Uplay and condemn Steam. At least with Uplay it installs the entire game off the discs and updates haven't been mandatory.

With the 3 discs of Batman: Arkham Origins, the first installed around 6gb, the second installed around 3gb, and the third was basically a blank disc. Isn't this a waste of money for them? Why even have a retail version of a game when only half of it is on the discs? I know for North America more and more games aren't getting a retail release and thus I know I can't play those games. So why do they feel the need to lie (scam) people by even releasing a retail version? I would say the majority of people who even buy retail is because of a lack of decent bandwidth. At this point I want to be an advocate for piracy. I won't practice it, because I can't, but I am all for them screwing over developers/distributors who are pulling this s***.

Too bad there isn't a (legit) third party service for people with limited bandwidth that could download the remainder of the game for you and put them on a disc then ship them to you. Hell, I'd even pay additional fees on top of the full retail price if the entire game was on the discs. Or at least give us the courtesy of printing on the box "High Speed, High Cap Bandwidth is required to install this game." and also print how much is expected to be downloaded.

I use to love Valve. It was the first Half Life that really got me into pc gaming. But now I despise them for introducing Steam and alienating long time pc gamers like myself who are unfortunate when it comes to available internet (also the lack of making games anymore, which I won't be able to play because they will require Steam, i.e. I can't play HL2 or any of the episodes).

Simply put look for a new ISP blatantly high speed internet with sensible bandwidth 10Gb is not realistic my phone uses that per month and that's mostly via Wi-Fi even my phone has more monthly bandwidth via 3G what I use around 300mb per month. I don't know if in the US there is an unlimited service available as in the UK I'm on FTTC with unlimited bandwidth and my usage is probably minimum 1TB per month excluding the bandwidth used by my IPTV service.

Sorry to say your not going to be lucky to find games that don't require these things if its SP or MP. Now days its rare not to see a game that requires Steam, Origin, Uplay sold via digital or physical media. But all games now seem to ship via physical media around 50-80% complete day one patches will happen and seem to be done in some shape or form to stop pirates using physical media to crack a game but It don't work. or due to the fact games signed off and they are working on last minute fixes and changes.

Welcome to modern pc gaming.

Last edited by antonyfrn; 07-05-2014 at 09:43.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 09:49 | posts: 3,728 | Location: Australia

It completely defeats the purpose of the retail disks having to download half the game or more to play it. The whole reason of purchasing the retail disks is to avoid having to download the game in the first place. At the end of the day they're rather you pay close to retail prices from the Steam store and download it, because it means more money in the pocket for the Steam store.

Think of all the overheads associated with distributing retail disks (design of the disks, manufacturing, transportation, wholesaler costs, retailer costs). If the game is still Steam, they would make little money on it and still pay the developer. With downloads Steam can make more, than more money can flow to the game developer.

Even if PC sales are much less for a game than for the Xbox One and PS4, assuming that you can't have pirated games on consoles (a false assumption), the developer isn't as bad off, supposedly, as some make them out to be because with the console games, you still have the distribution and every other costs of a retail disk, plus Microsoft and Sony getting their own cut.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 11:00 | posts: 6,546 | Location: Dubai

The game has been updated a lot since release and had DLC so yeah.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 19:29 | posts: 3,612 | Location: Northcoast of Germany

Has only access to limited bandwidth....

...blames Steam for Developer's patches.


Seriously, realitycheck plz! :p
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 21:05 | posts: 30

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Has only access to limited bandwidth....

...blames Steam for Developer's patches.


Seriously, realitycheck plz! :p
In my predicament I do blame Steam but more so this country's sh*tty bandwidth infrastructure. Installing a game after it's been out a while only makes it worse since with the initial install all those updates are mandatory with steam. Why can't I have the choice to play the game without these updates? I'd rather play a buggy game than not be able to play at all. Also with updates even if it started downloading .0001% of the update I can't play the game til it's done, idiotic.

With Ubisoft I actually get the entire game on the discs (for now). Completely installed Watch Dogs, no downloading. Though if the only games in my catalog are going to be Ubisoft games then I might as well shoot myself.

I live in a rural area where there are probably 100 or so houses on my road which is about 6-8 miles long. The options for internet are dialup, wireless, or satellite, all sh*t. I haven't been able to play multiplayer since the days of TFC, CS 1.6, and Tribes 2. That's why I get aggravated with Steam because singleplayer is all I have.

I can't even go to consoles (not that I want to) now that internet is required because developers feel the need to release unfinished games and just issue a day one multi-gb patch that is required to play.

Is the Witcher 3 going to be a steamworks game? Hope not, if so gaming is going to be extremely bleak for me.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 21:09 | posts: 6,546 | Location: Dubai

Neah, Witcher 3 will have a drm free release.
   
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Default 07-05-2014, 21:25 | posts: 886 | Location: London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed_Bucket View Post
In my predicament I do blame Steam but more so this country's sh*tty bandwidth infrastructure. Installing a game after it's been out a while only makes it worse since with the initial install all those updates are mandatory with steam. Why can't I have the choice to play the game without these updates? I'd rather play a buggy game than not be able to play at all. Also with updates even if it started downloading .0001% of the update I can't play the game til it's done, idiotic.

With Ubisoft I actually get the entire game on the discs (for now). Completely installed Watch Dogs, no downloading. Though if the only games in my catalog are going to be Ubisoft games then I might as well shoot myself.

I live in a rural area where there are probably 100 or so houses on my road which is about 6-8 miles long. The options for internet are dialup, wireless, or satellite, all sh*t. I haven't been able to play multiplayer since the days of TFC, CS 1.6, and Tribes 2. That's why I get aggravated with Steam because singleplayer is all I have.

I can't even go to consoles (not that I want to) now that internet is required because developers feel the need to release unfinished games and just issue a day one multi-gb patch that is required to play.

Is the Witcher 3 going to be a steamworks game? Hope not, if so gaming is going to be extremely bleak for me.
But seriously get a new ISP or more bandwidth/monthly allowance my old ISP caused me problems due to 40Gb cap but I had to change ISPs due to the fault in the copper wire as where I live I cant have copper from the street cabinet to the exchange due to an issue between the cab and exchange.

But looks like you have an issue with the distance to the exchange there like I had in Spain sadly just had to suck it up in my business with 1meg line with double the distance your quoting.

Last edited by antonyfrn; 07-05-2014 at 21:36.
   
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