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HBAO+ Compatibility Flags Thread
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MrBonk
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Default HBAO+ Compatibility Flags Thread - 03-03-2014, 14:09 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon


(Thanks to Cyberdyne, for his AA thread layout. Which I shamelessly copied for the sake of consistency)

The following are HBAO+ Flags to be used with NVidiaInspector
0. Adjacent to "Driver Version", press the wrench and screwdriver button


What is HBAO+?
Information on Original HBAO (Since HBAO+ is an evolution, it shares many of the same traits) 1 2 3 https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/d.../11/SSAO11.zip

Link to list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2c&usp=sharing

(References listed as "OP" Are ones I tested myself very heavily before making this thread. Or those given from others who's posts it would be too tedious to track down)

List of Games not recommended to use HBAO+ With, or is currently impossible to do so. (Feel Free to try though if you want)
  • Two Worlds II - Game has terrible SSAO that can be disabled, but I could not find a flag that didn't work without issues of one sort or another
  • Castle of Illusion- Has in game SSAO, see reference post in AA thread for this game how to disable it. I didn't test every flag
  • Marlow Briggs and The Mask of Death - Non defeatable SSAO
  • Dawn of War I series - too old?
  • The Walking Dead - Cannot or won't because goes against art style? The flags I tried didn't work
  • Pinball FX2 - Didn't test every flag. But everyone I did seemed to have issues
  • Trine - Has built in AO that can't be disabled(?)
  • The Typing of Dead Overkill -Won't without issues
  • Unreal 2 The Awakening - (DX8.1, this also applies to any other DX8 games as well I suppose)
  • Tomb Raider Legend - Not possible without glitches or major performance issues.
  • Loadout - already has some form of AO that cannot be disabled
  • Ethan Meteor Hunter - game doesn't need it. Would conflict with the art style
  • Bionic Commando 2009 - undefeatable SSAO
  • Deus Ex Human Revolution Director's Cut - Impossible without issues in DX9, straight up won't work in DX11
  • Serious Sam TFE HD, TSE HD & 3 BFE -Impossible without AO buffer being reprojected or some crap
  • Star Wars The Force Unleashed http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...postcount=5648
  • Lost Planet 2: Not possible without Fogging issues
  • AfterFall:Insanity - Impossible without flickering on and off or bleeding
  • Battlefield Bad Company 2
  • Resident Evil Operation Raccoon City
  • Resident Evil 4 Ultimate HD Edition
  • Just cause 2
  • Murdered: Soul Suspect - Nothing works in DX11. DX9 works though.
  • Gears of War - Ironic considering it's official flag status
  • Legend of Heroes VI: Trails in The Sky FC - Is DX8

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||

- How can I help test and find flags? -
(And determine if it is impossible to force HBAO+)


It's as simple as loading up or making a profile for a game, and going down the list of available flags in the driver to figure out which ones work and are ideal for that specific game!

(Unfortunately there is not really a specific method you can use to narrow it down, other than knowing which flags can work for which API
Quote:
0x000X0000 (DX10/11 only); 0x000000YZ (DX9 only); 0x000X00YZ (DX9 + DX10/11)
. Documentation that is available to me seems to be highly inaccurate ;for reasons I can't say, please don't ask; and what may work with one game on one engine, may or may not work for another game on the same engine. So the best you can do is get used to certain characteristics of certain flags and randomly start choosing one as a starting point and see how it behaves or just start with a flag known to work with that engine)


But a couple of things
  • In order to filter out the discussion from entries needing to be added to the spreadsheet, results need to be presented in some form of proper formatting like the below (Or else I might miss it, or have a hard time parsing through the information needed). It makes things easier for everyone so please play along . Screenshots with an OSD showing GPU usage, framerate,etc are needed as well please!

    (when making a post, just delete the "`" from the brackets)
    Quote:
    [`B][`U][`SIZE="3"]- Game Title -[/SIZE][/U][/B]
    [`B]Flag:[/B]
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||
    [`B]General Information:[/B]
    ['B]Pictures[/B] *Are Required please* If official flag exists, we need a comparison between it, no AO and your flag that you found
    __________________________________________________ ______________
  • Sometimes, a flag will work (Or won't), but it will kill your GPU Usage and framerate. I'm sure this has something to do with how HBAO+ is specifically rendered. So it's important that you use an OSD like MSI Afterburner to monitor statistics while you test
  • Does the game already have some form of AO? If so what kind? Can it be disabled? It should probably be disabled to force HBAO+. If it already has some form of AO that can't be disabled, it's probably not a great idea and should be listed for *Impossibility* (EG: Post for the game using the same template as above, but in the "Flag" Field, type it's impossible, or has undefeatable SSAO or can't be done without issues.)
  • There are a large number of things to look out for when testing HBAO+ in order to find the ideal solution for the game in question
    1. Clouding and flickering - Are the AO'd areas too dark/inaccurate and move like a foggy cloud or flicker in motion? Video Example (Look at the Grass and how at certain angles it's applied like a thick ugly cloud). Image Example
    2. Is it applied too strongly? - AO can be applied too strongly to the contrast of the rest of the rendered environment and if there is a angle bias issue as well, the angle of the camera can cause issues with undersampling artifacts that look like and can cause aliasing. Video Example
    3. Does it turn on and off at different angles? - Again, could be an angle bias issue or something. Video Example
    4. How does it behave with Fogging? - (Also applies to volumetric fog) Sometimes AO applied just does not agree with how a game has Fog set up, which can result in a number of things such as it being applied through the fog, and too strongly as well, resulting in an ugly image that just looks discontinuitous . Image Examples: 1 2 3 4
      Sometimes when issues with fog arrive, so some undersampling glitches. Image Examples 1 (Look at the sand in the upper middle right) 2
    5. How does it look once AA is applied? (Does it look natural and flush with the game, or does it flicker or stand out and break immersion?)
    6. Are there just general glitches and ugliness? - sometimes HBAO+ Just doesn't play nice with a game at all, or with certain flags. Which can lead to things like the entire graphics becoming glitched, things missing, the entire HBAO+ buffer bleeding through and making everything look very bad. Image Examples 1 2 3 4 5
    7. Does it bleed through things like Overlays, objects or UI? - Not sure the causes, but the AO can sometimes just bleed through just about EVERYTHING, leading to immersion breaking results. Image Examples 1


Good Luck and Happy Hunting!





________________________________________________

If you speak German, there is our companion thread at Extreme PCGames Hardware

http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/gr...taetsbits.html

Hopefully we can all end up helping each other out and compiling the best list we can.

Last edited by MrBonk; 08-31-2014 at 08:55.
   
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-Tj-
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Default 03-03-2014, 14:58 | posts: 7,522 | Location: Urban`Jungle

I have this AO flags list, someone @ guru3d posted it once

Game engine and AO flag

AtmosFear 4: 0x00080000
Call of Duty Engine: 0x00000004 , 0x00000005 , 0x00000015 , 0x00000028
Chrome Engine: 0x00060000 , 0x00060019
CryEngine: 0x00000018
Demigod: 0x0000001F
Dunia: 0x00010000 , 0x000A0000
EGO: 0x0000000E
Eclipse: 0x0000001C
Essence Engine: 0x00070000
Fable: 0x00000023
Frostbite: 0x00000002
Gamebryo: 0x00000003 , 0x00000011 , 0x00000029
Godfather: 0x0000000F
IRISZOOM engine: 0x0000001D
Id Tech: 0x00000017
Lithtech: Jupiter EX: 0x0000000D
Lost Planet: 0x00040000 , 0x00050000
Lycium: 0x00000000
MT Framework: 0x00090000 , 0x000C0000
Madness Engine: 0x0000001E
MassTech Game Engine: 0x000B0000
Pleione Engine: 0x00000012
Real Virtuality: 0x00000013 , 0x00000016
Scimitar: 0x00000022
Source Engine: 0x00000006 , 0x00000007 , 0x00000008 , 0x00000009 , 0x00000014 , 0x0000000A
StarCraft II: 0x00000027
Street Fighter: 0x0000001A
Unreal Engine: 0x00000010 , 0x00000020 , 0x00000021 , 0x00000024 , 0x00000025 , 0x00000026 , 0x00020000
WoW: 0x000D0001

Its a little old though..
   
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Default 03-03-2014, 15:02 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

Old SSAO flags are unfortunately not compatible as far as my testing has showed.

And there isn't really anything engine specific, stuff just needs to be done on a per game basis.


Which makes things difficult, a lot more so than AA flags.
   
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Dr4Wm4N
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Default 03-03-2014, 17:34 | posts: 20

Here's a little test report on one of your profiles:

- Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 -
Flag:
0x00000030
General Information that is relevant and necessary for the game:
Tested with retail version, is applied through fog and sometimes toggles quickly on and off at different angles.
The issues with fog are particularly visible in the cinematic that plays when the last boss appears.
   
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Default 03-03-2014, 21:03 | posts: 7,522 | Location: Urban`Jungle

Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl - 0x00000029 (Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim)

Almost no fogging, the only "bad" thing is it can make trees a bit darker then usual.
   
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Default 03-03-2014, 23:03 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr4Wm4N View Post
Here's a little test report on one of your profiles:

- Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 -
Flag:
0x00000030
General Information that is relevant and necessary for the game:
Tested with retail version, is applied through fog and sometimes toggles quickly on and off at different angles.
The issues with fog are particularly visible in the cinematic that plays when the last boss appears.
Thank you!

Now, is it possible for you to test and find another flag at all?
   
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Default 03-03-2014, 23:15 | posts: 448 | Location: Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBonk View Post
Old SSAO flags are unfortunately not compatible as far as my testing has showed.

And there isn't really anything engine specific, stuff just needs to be done on a per game basis.


Which makes things difficult, a lot more so than AA flags.
I was wondering why you ignored the AO category in the spreadsheet linked at the "NVidia Anti-Aliasing Guide (updated)" sticky thread (you did add some AA entries to that list).
are you saying most known HBAO flags aren't working at all, or just not producing the better HBAO+ type of effect ?
what about older officially supported games, are they all doing HBAO+ now ? (if so, have their flags change for that ?)

also, many thanks for your hard work, much appreciated !

Last edited by applejack; 03-03-2014 at 23:37.
   
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Default 03-03-2014, 23:51 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

The truth of the matter is that the old SSAO flags (Now HBAO+) don't even work with a lot of the games they were put in the driver for.

SSAO and HBAO+ Are rendered fundamentally different. So the parameters are somewhat different. Which means what worked for SSAO doesn't work always for HBAO+ unfortunately.
(Not to say that it's impossible! Look at Torchlight 1, the 0x00000003 flag I found for SSAO ended up working fairly well for HBAO+, but I ended up much preferring 0x00000011 instead, but they both work)


However, with some references to links from others on 3DCenter I have added some entries where a known SSAO flag was working but needed testing.


AS WELL, old SSAO flags may be a good starting point for testing HBAO+. Fundamentally, all the old SSAO flags need to be tested for issues and compared to other flags if they aren't ideal anymore.


So please feel free to use those flags as a starting point for those games and test to see if they work without issue without HBAO+!

I'd love if most of them were fine, but again, needs to be verified
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 00:16 | posts: 72 | Location: Poland

Risen and Risen 2 flags?
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 00:26 | posts: 448 | Location: Israel

@MrBonk, why you keep referring to the previous version of HBAO as "SSAO" ?
both HBAO and HBAO+ are improved forms of SSAO in some way.
at least this is how Nvidia marketed it from start.

anyway, I heard (maybe even in Nvidia's post) that enabling HBAO+ method requires setting up the NVCP Ambient Occlusion feature to "Quality" mode. (not sure about "High Quality" in nvinspector though).
perhaps you know, does it means "Performance" mode still produce regular HBAO ?
because if so, it could mean all previous flags might work fine in "Performance" mode (maybe even at "High Quality" in nvinspector, unless HBAO+ took over it).

haven't tested AO flags for a while now. just trying to catch up.

Last edited by applejack; 03-04-2014 at 00:35.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 00:35 | posts: 72 | Location: Poland

All 3 variants are HBAO+ as far as I'm aware, just more and less precise versions.
Nvidia completely replaced regular SSAO support in drivers with HBAO+, hence why old flags don't work.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 01:27 | posts: 2,143 | Location: USA, Pennsylvania

Awesome. PM Hilbert or another mod if you want it stickied.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 01:44 | posts: 10,802 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by applejack View Post
@MrBonk, why you keep referring to the previous version of HBAO as "SSAO" ?
both HBAO and HBAO+ are improved forms of SSAO in some way.
at least this is how Nvidia marketed it from start.

anyway, I heard (maybe even in Nvidia's post) that enabling HBAO+ method requires setting up the NVCP Ambient Occlusion feature to "Quality" mode. (not sure about "High Quality" in nvinspector though).
perhaps you know, does it means "Performance" mode still produce regular HBAO ?
because if so, it could mean all previous flags might work fine in "Performance" mode (maybe even at "High Quality" in nvinspector, unless HBAO+ took over it).

haven't tested AO flags for a while now. just trying to catch up.
There has never been driver HBAO. They recently switched to HBAO+.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 01:51 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canzah View Post
All 3 variants are HBAO+ as far as I'm aware, just more and less precise versions.
Nvidia completely replaced regular SSAO support in drivers with HBAO+, hence why old flags don't work.
Yes this is true.

I've seen Performance make a difference, but no HQ in titles i've tested myself.


As well, SSAO (In the way that we know it, IE:SSAO in Crysis) is still quite different than HBAO. (Which is still screen space based)

They are rooted in same base ideas, but the algorithms and implementation are different.

Last edited by MrBonk; 03-04-2014 at 01:53.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 02:30 | posts: 448 | Location: Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
There has never been driver HBAO.
this surprises me to be honest. I actually cannot find a reference of Nvidia specifically using (older) HBAO in driver, but in most places where SSAO is mentioned in regards to driver implementation, the Siggraph 2008 HBAO document was linked.

driver AO came only after the the introduction of that HBAO research by nvidia.
I was messing with driver AO a LOT at the time, and it did look very similar to some in-game HBAO implementations. at the same time, it always looked different and BETTER than any SSAO implementation I've stumbled upon in games.
(even looked better than Farcry 3's build-in HBAO which felt somewhat fake. shame driver AO was unusable due to flicker in that case).

Last edited by applejack; 03-04-2014 at 02:37.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 02:37 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

I dunno, I think it was SSAO(Actually i'm almost certain, since within DRST there are fields for HBAO+ and SSAO), I remember only having nothing but problems with it. Too many issues, cost too much performance (Compared to HBAO+ now which has great performance in comparison)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdyne View Post
Awesome. PM Hilbert or another mod if you want it stickied.
I dun know any mods , guess it's time to do a user search!

 Click to show spoiler

   
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Default 03-04-2014, 02:39 | posts: 7,522 | Location: Urban`Jungle

They used SSAO from beginning up to r331 branch..

Somewhere ~ r270 they tweaked it a bit (split to perf. and quality), but imo it went worse from there on.. More bugs then not.
   
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Canzah
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Default 03-04-2014, 03:37 | posts: 72 | Location: Poland

Again, it used to be only SSAO, no HBAO ever before in drivers (not counting the current HBAO+ to which Nvidia switched starting 330-something (may have been 331 as -Tj- above me mentioned).
And just like the current HBAO+, the performance/quality things determine accuracy/resolution of the effect. It worked the same with SSAO. The reason it looked better than most game's built-in SSAO is because games often went for low res and inaccurate SSAO implementations. Take Sleeping Dogs for example, it probably has the worst SSAO implementation I've ever seen. It looks like black fluid rather than proper shading.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 03:49 | posts: 1,208 | Location: Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canzah View Post
Again, it used to be only SSAO, no HBAO ever before in drivers (not counting the current HBAO+ to which Nvidia switched starting 330-something (may have been 331 as -Tj- above me mentioned).
And just like the current HBAO+, the performance/quality things determine accuracy/resolution of the effect. It worked the same with SSAO. The reason it looked better than most game's built-in SSAO is because games often went for low res and inaccurate SSAO implementations. Take Sleeping Dogs for example, it probably has the worst SSAO implementation I've ever seen. It looks like black fluid rather than proper shading.
Sure, but i've yet to actually see a visual or even performance difference from using HQ. I'd love to see some!.


Also: Bad AO? Have you played Bionic Commando 2009 or Warhammer 40k space marine?
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 04:12 | posts: 1,598 | Location: Earth

Does anyone have Assassin's Creed II installed? I remember using Fable the Lost Chapters AO flag and it worked, but since the update to HBAO+ it may not anymore.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 04:17 | posts: 72 | Location: Poland

I did play Space Marine and it's nowhere near as bad as Sleeping Dogs. SD doesn't even have any form of AF while we're at it, and while NVidia users can force it through drivers (it works, tested myself), AMD users are essentially ****ed, because even "forcing" it apparently doesn't work on AMD cards.

As for HQ, I tested a couple of flags in Risen 1, and Left 4 Dead one kind of works, but flickers on/off when standing near torches and is also visible through fog so I decided not to use it. But I tested Performance/Q/HQ in it and HQ has stronger effect. Grass literally became almost pitch black with HQ on, but at the same time the shading was a lot sharper and cleaner so to speak. A box gave off a visually sharp square-shaped AO, with Quality it was blurrier and more rounded (and grass wasn't as dark, but still dark). Performance was all kinds of bad though, I really don't recommend using it. Better to not have something, than have **** quality. At least that's my motto that I apply to all things in life.

Whiplashwang, have you tried the Assassin's Creed 1 flag?
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 12:36 | posts: 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBonk View Post
Thank you!

Now, is it possible for you to test and find another flag at all?
I'll try and let you know if I find a better one.
   
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Anarion
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Default 03-04-2014, 12:49 | posts: 10,802 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplashwang View Post
Does anyone have Assassin's Creed II installed? I remember using Fable the Lost Chapters AO flag and it worked, but since the update to HBAO+ it may not anymore.
I recently tried AC1 flag for it and it had issues in cinematics like in Mass Effect 1 (maybe fog issues too but don't quote me on that). AC1 on the other hand is completely broken at least in DX10 mode.
   
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Default 03-04-2014, 13:48 | posts: 181

Which flag to use for Dishonored? Im not sure which one worked from the old SSAO ones, but Im pretty sure there was one which worked at all angles.
   
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Canzah
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Default 03-04-2014, 14:35 | posts: 72 | Location: Poland

Try any of the Unreal Engine 3 ones.
Would still be glad for some Risen 1 and Risen 2 flags though. Closest I got to "decent" was that L4D one I mentioned earlier (all Source engine flags seem to work the same though)

Last edited by Canzah; 03-04-2014 at 14:57.
   
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