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View Poll Results: Will we see Mantle in January?
Yes 56 29.32%
No 105 54.97%
Who's Mantle, and does she have a sister? 30 15.71%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

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Mantle in January?
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  (#1)
ASLayerAODsk
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Default Mantle in January? - 01-23-2014, 08:45 | posts: 694 | Location: Canada

its already the 23rd....
   
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PlsHelpMe
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Default 01-23-2014, 08:55 | posts: 200

Of course, or it would be a huge mess.
   
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connos
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:04 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

I don't think so. And I don't blame AMD for that but Frostbite. It became recently known that Frostbite is no longer DICE. They are there own entity. This in my mind make it more difficult to patch BF4 to support Mantle. Its coming for sure with Thief and other games and 1 month or 2 is not a problem.
   
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ASLayerAODsk
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:04 | posts: 694 | Location: Canada

even when it does appear, Im guessing I'll get maybe...2-3% increase out of it...IF that. Cause there really isn't much more room than that with my setup, and even then, it's usually just an initial caching/buffering issue at the initial start of a map, more than anything. I already have my detail on MAX and 2560x1080, and im still topping out at 59-60fps, so really, where is there for me to go at this point?
   
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Martix
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:04 | posts: 12 | Location: Ukraine

In January of the next year
   
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PlsHelpMe
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:07 | posts: 200

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
even when it does appear, Im guessing I'll get maybe...2-3% increase out of it...IF that. Cause there really isn't much more room than that with my setup, and even then, it's usually just an initial caching/buffering issue at the initial start of a map, more than anything. I already have my detail on MAX and 2560x1080, and im still topping out at 59-60fps, so really, where is there for me to go at this point?
Yes thats right. But you would get 60 FPS instead of 59. Thats something isn't it?
   
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connos
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:08 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
even when it does appear, Im guessing I'll get maybe...2-3% increase out of it...IF that. Cause there really isn't much more room than that with my setup, and even then, it's usually just an initial caching/buffering issue at the initial start of a map, more than anything. I already have my detail on MAX and 2560x1080, and im still topping out at 59-60fps, so really, where is there for me to go at this point?
You are so wrong. Monitor your cpu usage and gpu usage and you will see that there is a lot of room for performance. I have 50 cpu usage and 80/90 gpu. And the draw calls on some maps are dropping the performance to 60 fps. I am using a 144hz monitor. I want more fps.
   
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PlsHelpMe
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:11 | posts: 200

Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
You are so wrong. Monitor your cpu usage and gpu usage and you will see that there is a lot of room for performance. I have 50 cpu usage and 80/90 gpu. And the draw calls on some maps are dropping the performance to 60 fps. I am using a 144hz monitor. I want more fps.
Hes right, but you have a FX processor which is not as great as his Intel CPU so you will see a more huge FPS boost for sure. But for him, there will be no great FPS boost.
   
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derpyQ
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:12 | posts: 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
even when it does appear, Im guessing I'll get maybe...2-3% increase out of it...IF that. Cause there really isn't much more room than that with my setup, and even then, it's usually just an initial caching/buffering issue at the initial start of a map, more than anything. I already have my detail on MAX and 2560x1080, and im still topping out at 59-60fps, so really, where is there for me to go at this point?
It's not all about performance. AMD has said in fact that the primary benefit of Mantle is that it allows for higher detail at the same performance cost, with additional raw performance being a secondary benefit. I expect the Mantle patch will come with some new graphics options.

Anyway, lucky you, but most people have plenty room for performance improvement in a demanding title like BF4
   
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:13 | posts: 6,765 | Location: Dubai

Oh c'mon .. nobody else wanted to know if Mantle has a sister?
   
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connos
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:14 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

Quote:
Originally Posted by derpyQ View Post
It's not all about performance. AMD has said in fact that Mantle is meant to allow for higher detail at the same performance cost, with performance being a secondary benefit. I expect the Mantle patch will come with some new graphics options.

Anyway, luck you, but most people have plenty room for performance improvement in a demanding title like BF4
You are correct. Less stuttering faster frame times, no need to ever update a driver for performance or support etc.... There so much good thinks about Mantle but all talk about fps. Fps doesn't matter. Having a faster frame times with 50fps matter.
   
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derpyQ
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:30 | posts: 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
You are correct. Less stuttering faster frame times, no need to ever update a driver for performance or support etc.... There so much good thinks about Mantle but all talk about fps. Fps doesn't matter. Having a faster frame times with 50fps matter.
Yep. I think things like "flip queue" and "pre-rendered frames" in AMD and Nvidia drivers respectively, and things like "onethreadframelag" in game engines are meant to even out frames in today's games, I'm guessing because today's graphics APIs aren't close to metal, and rely so much on software. Mantle reduces CPU overhead, and more directly accesses the GPU hardware - I'd be willing to bet Mantle games won't need so much frame buffering out of the box, and will therefore have less input lag, while simultaneously having smoother frames.

Last edited by derpyQ; 01-23-2014 at 09:33.
   
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ASLayerAODsk
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:33 | posts: 694 | Location: Canada

well the ONLY stuttering Ive encountered since Ive joined the ranks of the Elite PC Master Race, are from CPU Parking and the removal of such behavior. Now Im sailing smooth as silk
   
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DiceAir
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:41 | posts: 491 | Location: South Africa

We shouldn't depend on Mantle to remove some of our bottlenecking in our PC's. Get a good enough CPU and overclock. Mantle might not come ever by the rate this is going. So many good stuff about mantle but in the end doesn't matter cause we can't use it yet. I think AMD can sort of like sue Dice/EA. We as gamers can get a bit impatient. Just look at Wach Dogs there was a huge fuzz about it and now it was delayd and not a word because they know that will piss people off. With Mantle they just kept on throwing it in our faces. They even have Demos of BF4 with mantle and now Dice employees said on twitter how amazing is it plaing on 180fps. This is really not helping at all just makes us as gamers more pissed and not wanting to have anything to do with AMD. This was my first year with AMD and not a very good one. My GTX570SLI system was a beast. yeah i admit was slower than AMD cards I have now but every game worked with it without any issues. And when Nvidia said something they Deliver or even better, they deliver without even mentioning anything.
   
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connos
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Default 01-23-2014, 09:46 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
well the ONLY stuttering Ive encountered since Ive joined the ranks of the Elite PC Master Race, are from CPU Parking and the removal of such behavior. Now Im sailing smooth as silk
There are a lot of thinks that will make a game to stutter. Like shaders loading (see Deus Ex) etc.. I am very sensitive to stuttering and I hate it in games as it brakes the immersion and a lot of the times its not up to your system if you experience it or not. The one think that I am really exited with Mantle is the no need to wait from the GF maker to make drivers for a game. Its all up to the developer.
   
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connos
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Default 01-23-2014, 10:01 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiceAir View Post
We shouldn't depend on Mantle to remove some of our bottlenecking in our PC's. Get a good enough CPU and overclock. Mantle might not come ever by the rate this is going. So many good stuff about mantle but in the end doesn't matter cause we can't use it yet. I think AMD can sort of like sue Dice/EA. We as gamers can get a bit impatient. Just look at Wach Dogs there was a huge fuzz about it and now it was delayd and not a word because they know that will piss people off. With Mantle they just kept on throwing it in our faces. They even have Demos of BF4 with mantle and now Dice employees said on twitter how amazing is it plaing on 180fps. This is really not helping at all just makes us as gamers more pissed and not wanting to have anything to do with AMD. This was my first year with AMD and not a very good one. My GTX570SLI system was a beast. yeah i admit was slower than AMD cards I have now but every game worked with it without any issues. And when Nvidia said something they Deliver or even better, they deliver without even mentioning anything.
The software must keep up(compliment) with the Hardware. You can not improve only one way. We have so much prepossessing power in our PC today that's is not used due to software limitations. My card has 2.9 TFLOPS of power. How much of this performance is used in BF4? Not a lot and the reason is the software.

Take BF4 on ps4, it can do 60 fps on a 7870 like gpu with a CPU clocked at 1.6. I play on 1080p with 4.3cpu and 7950 all settings low with medium textures and I some times drop to 60 fps on a 64 server.

Of course we can not depend on Mantle but someone has to do something and AMD is in the position with their APU's, consoles that uses APU's to do it. Why not.

Last edited by connos; 01-23-2014 at 10:05.
   
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7stars
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Default 01-23-2014, 11:03 | posts: 106

Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
You are correct. Less stuttering faster frame times, no need to ever update a driver for performance or support etc.... There so much good thinks about Mantle but all talk about fps. Fps doesn't matter. Having a faster frame times with 50fps matter.
yes...anyway Mantle should scale to all the available cores (differently from how Directx acts...) in addition to avoiding bound, so I'm not sure that the percentage of increase in performance is so low for CPUs which are already powerful compared to APU or others ... no developer has ever said such a thing, I've only seen people making assumptions on the forums...only benchs can state that, so we have to wait...
then, it should also mean more details (in case) and smoother animation, i can't wait to see how it behaves in Crossfire...
   
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ASLayerAODsk
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Default 01-23-2014, 11:09 | posts: 694 | Location: Canada

4:15:2

wow..is confidence ever LOW with Mantle interesting to see so far..
   
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yasamoka
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:19 | posts: 3,241 | Location: Lebanon

The misinformation....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLayerAODsk View Post
even when it does appear, Im guessing I'll get maybe...2-3% increase out of it...IF that. Cause there really isn't much more room than that with my setup, and even then, it's usually just an initial caching/buffering issue at the initial start of a map, more than anything. I already have my detail on MAX and 2560x1080, and im still topping out at 59-60fps, so really, where is there for me to go at this point?
Do you realize how an API works to boost performance? Where did you get your numbers from?

If it wouldn't benefit you because you run 2560x1080 @ 60Hz capped at 60FPS, it would benefit others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlsHelpMe View Post
Yes thats right. But you would get 60 FPS instead of 59. Thats something isn't it?
That's not the point...


Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
You are so wrong. Monitor your cpu usage and gpu usage and you will see that there is a lot of room for performance. I have 50 cpu usage and 80/90 gpu. And the draw calls on some maps are dropping the performance to 60 fps. I am using a 144hz monitor. I want more fps.
CPU and GPU usage are irrelevant and do not show how efficient the API in usage is. You might have CPU usage at 99% and GPUs at 95%, doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlsHelpMe View Post
Hes right, but you have a FX processor which is not as great as his Intel CPU so you will see a more huge FPS boost for sure. But for him, there will be no great FPS boost.
Intel CPUs are bottlenecking in BF4 as well, seeing 90%+ CPU usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
You are correct. Less stuttering faster frame times, no need to ever update a driver for performance or support etc.... There so much good thinks about Mantle but all talk about fps. Fps doesn't matter. Having a faster frame times with 50fps matter.
What?... no need to update?

Also, 50FPS = 20ms frametimes. How would you have faster frametimes in general without your FPS going up?
   
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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:31 | posts: 18,423 | Location: Turkey

what was mantle again?
   
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derpyQ
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:41 | posts: 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by yasamoka View Post
The misinformation....

What?... no need to update?

Also, 50FPS = 20ms frametimes. How would you have faster frametimes in general without your FPS going up?
1. AMD said that one of the benefits of the Mantle API is that it eliminates the current problem that game and driver developers need to use guesswork to eliminate API bottlenecks in current games. This is why driver updates randomly, and slowly, come with performance updates to games every now and then (or so I understand). This means fewer updates will be needed to achieve a perfect game driver for any Mantle game.

2. Frame latencies can vary between frames even if the average fps is 50. Those 50 frames within that second can be drawn at wildly different speeds. I'm sure he meant frame latencies will be tightened. The frame latency thing was a big issue for the whole of last year, so it'd be obvious to many of us here what he meant.
   
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:42 | posts: 370 | Location: hooked on GTA V (PS3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
what was mantle again?
you know, she's the chick that said she was gonna come in december,

but had to delay multiple times, because her dad found out that she was gonna visit us.

so she said, she is gonna come in january for sure, but since its already at the end of january, i don't think she is gonna make it on january.
   
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ancientGHz
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:51 | posts: 243 | Location: /

Quote:
Originally Posted by DM789 View Post
you know, she's the chick that said she was gonna come in december,

but had to delay multiple times, because her dad found out that she was gonna visit us.

so she said, she is gonna come in january for sure, but since its already at the end of january, i don't think she is gonna make it on january.
Oh, that's so sad.
   
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jaju123
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Default 01-23-2014, 12:58 | posts: 163 | Location: Netherlands

Why can't they simply give us a real update like real human beings, instead of giving basically no details about the state of development and essentially lying to us without remorse. I spent 700 euros on the opportunity to try out Mantle and Truaudio, taking a gamble on AMD software like I knew that I would have to - so far I've gained nothing from the experience except for shoddy crossfire support, black screens, stuttering vsync, and load leaf-blower hot-ass cards which sound like dying whales. AMD seriously needs to overhaul their drivers, which alone would fix half of the problems which plague their products.

If I don't see Mantle by February, or the end of next week, I am going to write another angry keyboard-warrior paragraph, with more strong, powerful words which AMD will nevertheless ignore. Just you wait....
   
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  (#25)
AmD6000
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Default 01-23-2014, 13:02 | posts: 173 | Location: Massachusetts

Some thing tells me that is going to be released tomorrow. I don't think so. lol
   
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