Guru3D.com Forums

Go Back   Guru3D.com Forums > General Chat > Frontpage news
Frontpage news Perhaps you have some news to report or want to check out the latest Guru3D headlines and comment ? Check it in here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
AMD Mantle could get you 20% more performance
Old
  (#1)
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
 
Hilbert Hagedoorn's Avatar
 
Videocard: AMD | NVIDIA
Processor: Core i7 4770K
Mainboard: Z77
Memory: 8GB
Soundcard: X-Fi - GigaWorks 7.1
PSU: 1200 Watt
Default AMD Mantle could get you 20% more performance - 11-15-2013, 06:49 | posts: 20,811 | Location: Guru3D testlab

Says Johan Andersson from DICE. Andersson said creating a Mantle version of the Frostbite 3 engine took them about two months to complete. Mantle support will be added by an update in late Decembe...

AMD Mantle could get you 20% more performance
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#2)
WhiteLightning
Ancient Guru
 
WhiteLightning's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA 780GTX ACX
Processor: i7-2600k HT @ 4.5 +H70 PP
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-GD65 GAMING
Memory: Gskill 2133Mhz 8GB
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: Corsair 1000 watt
Default 11-15-2013, 06:54 | posts: 23,391 | Location: Hoek van Holland, Netherlands

Quote:
The Mantle API has just 8 percent overhead
hmm i assumed it didnt have any overhead at all from earlier presentations...
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
SLI-756
Ancient Guru
 
SLI-756's Avatar
 
Videocard: 760 SLI ftw bios
Processor: Devil's Canyon i5 @4.9
Mainboard: gigabyte z97 G1 Sniper
Memory: 8gb dominator gt @2450
Soundcard: asus xonar dx
PSU: xfx 850
Default 11-15-2013, 06:57 | posts: 6,864 | Location: Sunny Scotland

nice article, mantle probably had a small hand in NVidia's recent price drop, shame dice can't even say the word 'nvidia' though.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Ryu5uzaku
Ancient Guru
 
Ryu5uzaku's Avatar
 
Videocard: 290X & 7950
Processor: 3770K & 2500K
Mainboard: GB Z77X-D3H / GB Z77-D3H
Memory: 16GB & 16GB G.Skill
Soundcard: Meridian 2G / xf-i fata
PSU: 1000W & 500W silverstone
Default 11-15-2013, 07:14 | posts: 3,928 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLightning View Post
hmm i assumed it didnt have any overhead at all from earlier presentations...
That sounds pretty much an impossibility to be honest to not have any since it's still api inbetween :o

But 8 vs 40 is like really good
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#5)
mR Yellow
Master Guru
 
mR Yellow's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire R9 290 Acel XIII
Processor: Intel i7 2600K @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHZ CL8
Soundcard: ASUS Xonar DX
PSU: Corsair TX 850W
Default 11-15-2013, 07:36 | posts: 789 | Location: South Africa

Yes, 8% isn't much. Way better than 40%.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
mR Yellow
Master Guru
 
mR Yellow's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire R9 290 Acel XIII
Processor: Intel i7 2600K @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHZ CL8
Soundcard: ASUS Xonar DX
PSU: Corsair TX 850W
Default 11-15-2013, 07:37 | posts: 789 | Location: South Africa

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLI-756 View Post
nice article, mantle probably had a small hand in NVidia's recent price drop, shame dice can't even say the word 'nvidia' though.
Why must they say nVidia? It could include INtel or other future vendors.
Also, since when does nV drop AMD name?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
haz_mat
Member Guru
 
Videocard: 2x ASUS 7850 2GB - CFX
Processor: 3770K @ 4.5 + H110
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X-D3H rev1.1
Memory: 2x8GB Mushkin 1866 CL9 1T
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Z + ATH-M50
PSU: Seasonic 750w
Default 11-15-2013, 07:38 | posts: 52 | Location: Socal

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLightning View Post
hmm i assumed it didnt have any overhead at all from earlier presentations...
Impossible. Even a simple operation like copying some memory from main RAM to the GPU will involve the CPU. Commands will still be sent to the GPU as well.

I think what AMD is getting at here is that modern GPUs don't need as much "preparation" of the data before letting it go to work on the render. DirectX hides a lot of hardware functionality behind software abstractions which helped developers work with the fixed-function nature of older GPUs. Now those abstractions are just standing in the way of the sophisticated general-purpose nature of recent GPUs.

On a side note, my take on this 20% claim is a best-case scenario. People are screaming for numbers on this Mantle thing and I think this guy let a number slip that is probably just going to disappoint in most situations.

I am more interested in the other render possibilities that may be opened up by allowing engines to use many-but-simple draw calls to achieve other effects than what we've seen over the past several years. I, for one, am ready for new games that are more than just a twist on the Unreal DX9 engine. I'd like to see some new and exotic rendering possibilities take hold - like photon mapping or metropolis light transport for example.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
kosh_neranek
Master Guru
 
kosh_neranek's Avatar
 
Videocard: SLI MSi GTX 660Ti PE@1190
Processor: Intel Core i7-3930K @ 4.8
Mainboard: ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Memory: 16 GB 2133MHZ G.Skill
Soundcard: TRITTON 720+
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 11-15-2013, 08:45 | posts: 205 | Location: Dublin

Really curious how is Nvidia gonna reply to Mantle. Gsync isn't gonna be the thing though it's a great idea that someone should have gotten years ago. Anyway they can't afford to let AMD gain a lead in AAA games just thanx to an API with worse hardware.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
Ryu5uzaku
Ancient Guru
 
Ryu5uzaku's Avatar
 
Videocard: 290X & 7950
Processor: 3770K & 2500K
Mainboard: GB Z77X-D3H / GB Z77-D3H
Memory: 16GB & 16GB G.Skill
Soundcard: Meridian 2G / xf-i fata
PSU: 1000W & 500W silverstone
Default 11-15-2013, 08:48 | posts: 3,928 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosh_neranek View Post
Really curious how is Nvidia gonna reply to Mantle. Gsync isn't gonna be the thing though it's a great idea that someone should have gotten years ago. Anyway they can't afford to let AMD gain a lead in AAA games just thanx to an API with worse hardware.
g-sync would be great if it wasn't tied to nvidia and to asus monitors (not even all asus monitors will support it ofc)
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
kapu
Ancient Guru
 
kapu's Avatar
 
Videocard: Gigabyte HD7970 GHz TOP
Processor: Intel i5 750 @ 4.0 /1.38v
Mainboard: Asus P7P55D
Memory: GoodRAM 8GB , 1600 MHz
Soundcard: X-Fi Gamer|Siberia V2
PSU: Be Quiet! E9 680W
Default 11-15-2013, 09:36 | posts: 3,648 | Location: Poland

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosh_neranek View Post
Really curious how is Nvidia gonna reply to Mantle. Gsync isn't gonna be the thing though it's a great idea that someone should have gotten years ago. Anyway they can't afford to let AMD gain a lead in AAA games just thanx to an API with worse hardware.
Does AMD have worse hardware ?
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#11)
xafier
Maha Guru
 
xafier's Avatar
 
Videocard: 7950 @ 1Ghz
Processor: 2500k @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard:
Memory: 8Gb 1600mhz
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Antec EcoWatt 620w
Default 11-15-2013, 09:37 | posts: 811 | Location: Sheffield, England

Hopefully this should give my 7950 a nice boost
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Darkest
Ancient Guru
 
Darkest's Avatar
 
Videocard: HD7950
Processor: i5 3570k
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77 D3H
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaws 8gb 1600
Soundcard: Aune T1 + HD650/DT990 Pro
PSU: OCZ ZS 550w
Default 11-15-2013, 09:37 | posts: 7,453

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapu View Post
Does AMD have worse hardware ?
Nothing I've seen has indicated that to be the case. The only problem I see at the moment is with their stock coolers, which is easily rectified. In some respects you could argue that they have better hardware, it's apples to oranges. Both have their selling points.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Ch0plol
Member Guru
 
Ch0plol's Avatar
 
Videocard: ASUS GTX 770 4GB
Processor: Intel i5 3570K @ 4400MHz
Mainboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme3
Memory: 8GB Trident X @ 2400MHz
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DGX
PSU: Antec BP550 Plus (550W)
Default 11-15-2013, 09:50 | posts: 118 | Location: San Diego, CA

If Mantle works like how it's said to work - fantastic. I, however, don't care about the marketing hype until I actually see real benchmarks.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
kapu
Ancient Guru
 
kapu's Avatar
 
Videocard: Gigabyte HD7970 GHz TOP
Processor: Intel i5 750 @ 4.0 /1.38v
Mainboard: Asus P7P55D
Memory: GoodRAM 8GB , 1600 MHz
Soundcard: X-Fi Gamer|Siberia V2
PSU: Be Quiet! E9 680W
Default 11-15-2013, 09:50 | posts: 3,648 | Location: Poland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Nothing I've seen has indicated that to be the case. The only problem I see at the moment is with their stock coolers, which is easily rectified. In some respects you could argue that they have better hardware, it's apples to oranges. Both have their selling points.
Their stock coolers are trash since HD4 series.

But there are many vendors , so thats not an issue right now.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
chanw4
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: ASUS GTX 670 4GB GDDR5
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Mainboard: ASUS MAXIMUS V EXTREME
Memory: OCZ Platinum DDR3-1600 4G
Soundcard:
PSU: Enermax Platimax 600W
Default 11-15-2013, 10:11 | posts: 2,273 | Location: Hong Kong

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLightning View Post
hmm i assumed it didnt have any overhead at all from earlier presentations...
It will have overhead as it is an API that talk between the application and the hardware. The question is, how much is the overhead cost.


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#16)
eclap
Ancient Guru
 
eclap's Avatar
 
Videocard: HD7950 CFX + Qnix QX2710
Processor: i5 2500k @4.5 1.2v
Mainboard: Asus P8Z77-V Pro
Memory: 8GB G-Skill RipjawsX 1600
Soundcard: SB Z/Aune T1/AD700/DT880
PSU: XFX Black 750W 80+ Gold
Default 11-15-2013, 10:13 | posts: 26,093 | Location: Hampshire UK

I expected more than 20%
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#17)
PhazeDelta1
Ancient Guru
 
PhazeDelta1's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA 770 Classified
Processor: Intel i7 4770k
Mainboard: Asus Sabertooth Z87
Memory: 16GB Corsair 2133MHz
Soundcard: Creative SB Z
PSU: Seasonic X-850
Default 11-15-2013, 10:13 | posts: 13,247 | Location: USA

We'll find out next month how well it's going to work.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
kapu
Ancient Guru
 
kapu's Avatar
 
Videocard: Gigabyte HD7970 GHz TOP
Processor: Intel i5 750 @ 4.0 /1.38v
Mainboard: Asus P7P55D
Memory: GoodRAM 8GB , 1600 MHz
Soundcard: X-Fi Gamer|Siberia V2
PSU: Be Quiet! E9 680W
Default 11-15-2013, 10:14 | posts: 3,648 | Location: Poland

10-20% would be nice. But i expect more on heavly bottlenecked GPUs (like mine).
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
chanw4
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: ASUS GTX 670 4GB GDDR5
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Mainboard: ASUS MAXIMUS V EXTREME
Memory: OCZ Platinum DDR3-1600 4G
Soundcard:
PSU: Enermax Platimax 600W
Default 11-15-2013, 10:18 | posts: 2,273 | Location: Hong Kong

I think 20% is too much and probably won't be met depends on the type of games. Mantle is just one of many API that developers used, so remember that even if when Mantle API improved the overhead, there are still function calls that rely on other API and DirectX which might nullify the improvement. Especially with CPU heavy games i suppose?


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
mR Yellow
Master Guru
 
mR Yellow's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire R9 290 Acel XIII
Processor: Intel i7 2600K @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHZ CL8
Soundcard: ASUS Xonar DX
PSU: Corsair TX 850W
Default 11-15-2013, 10:28 | posts: 789 | Location: South Africa

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclap View Post
I expected more than 20%
Maybe 20% is worst case scenario.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
Tugrul_512bit
Member Guru
 
Videocard: msi hd7870 hawk
Processor: fx8150
Mainboard: Gigabyte 990xa-ud3
Memory: C.Vengeance 2x4GB 1866MHz
Soundcard:
PSU: gaming 700W
Default 11-15-2013, 10:43 | posts: 66 | Location: Turkey

Which card(without mantle) is equivalent to a%20 mantle-boosted Stock HD7870pitcairn?

Stock GTX670?

Stock HD7950?

What about overclocking the 7870pitcairn to 1275/1375 ? (1330/1525 for benchmarks)

Stock GTX680? (GTX770 for benchmarks?)

Stock HD7970? (R9-280x-revized for benchmarks?)

Last edited by Tugrul_512bit; 11-15-2013 at 11:03.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
peshkohacka
Member Guru
 
Videocard: ***8962;
Processor: ***9524;
Mainboard:
Memory:
Soundcard:
PSU: ***9580;
Default 11-15-2013, 11:20 | posts: 110

....

Last edited by peshkohacka; 06-22-2014 at 16:10.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#23)
connos
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: AMD 7950
Processor: AMD Piledriver 8320@4.3
Mainboard: Asus Sabertooth 990FX AMD
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB
Soundcard: Asus Xonar GDX
PSU: XFX Pro 750W Core Edition
Default 11-15-2013, 11:26 | posts: 1,134 | Location: Cyprus, Limassol

Why we are all stack on fps? What about frame times Stuttering and smoothness. They clearly mention this in the presentation with the Deus Ex shader loading, stuttering example. They also said its not ment for every game.

One more thing, Johan said that the code is very close of what the ps4 code looks like. In ps4 we have 60 fps with 7870 like card and a 8 core cpu at 1.6. Make the math about our more modern systems. With my 7850 and 4 core 3.9 cpu a lot of the times i drop to 35.

The other key think they mention, you will not have to wait for a Driver update to make the game work. This is a pain in the ass for me with every new game. The developer has all the control for making the game work without the need of a new Driver.

Johan said on tweeter
Quote:
there is no stepping back now, this is the way forward, change is coming

Last edited by connos; 11-15-2013 at 13:04.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#24)
WhiteLightning
Ancient Guru
 
WhiteLightning's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA 780GTX ACX
Processor: i7-2600k HT @ 4.5 +H70 PP
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-GD65 GAMING
Memory: Gskill 2133Mhz 8GB
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: Corsair 1000 watt
Default 11-15-2013, 11:29 | posts: 23,391 | Location: Hoek van Holland, Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by connos View Post
The other key think they mention, you will not have to wait for a Driver update to make the game work. This is a pain in the ass for me with every new game. The developer has all the control for making the game work without the need of a new Driver.
Is there truth to this ?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#25)
ClexRex
Member Guru
 
Videocard: 780 Classified / R9 290
Processor: Intel 4770k 4.9ghz 1.45v
Mainboard: MSI Mpower Max
Memory: Adata 8gb 2600
Soundcard: Creative Z
PSU: Corsair AX860 Plat.
Default 11-15-2013, 11:34 | posts: 88

I would say 20% was prly a higher number than should have been stated....however I do hope it works well....however realistically id say itll be more around 5-10% depending on game title.
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright (c) 1995-2014, All Rights Reserved. The Guru of 3D, the Hardware Guru, and 3D Guru are trademarks owned by Hilbert Hagedoorn.