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Debt Ceiling question
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J.B.west
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Default Debt Ceiling question - 10-18-2013, 08:08 | posts: 264

Doesnt raising it just get us more into trouble and debt??
Im not trying to make it a political thread, Im just curious as to why its always made a huge deal?? All presidents raise it and TBH I dont think there is a ceiling
   
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CronoGraal
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Default 10-18-2013, 08:09 | posts: 3,827 | Location: Sweden

why not just wipe the debt and have countries deal with it? :-)
   
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sykozis
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Default 10-18-2013, 12:23 | posts: 16,602 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.B.west View Post
Doesnt raising it just get us more into trouble and debt??
Im not trying to make it a political thread, Im just curious as to why its always made a huge deal?? All presidents raise it and TBH I dont think there is a ceiling
Not every President has raised it. In the last 30 years, it's only been raised by 2 administrations, both occurring over the last 12 years (G.W. Bush and Obama).

Yes, increasing the imaginary "debt ceiling" does just get the US into more financial trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CronoGraal View Post
why not just wipe the debt and have countries deal with it? :-)
Because the US is $16.7 Trillion dollars in debt and defaulting (or filing bankruptcy) would both destroy the US economy, as well as damaging the economies of the countries we owe money to (Japan and China being the largest lenders).


   
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nhlkoho
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Default 10-18-2013, 13:20 | posts: 4,899 | Location: Washington DC

Raising the debt ceiling only allows Congress to pay the bills for the money they already spent. Which they approved to spend by the way.
   
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Chillin
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Default 10-18-2013, 13:23 | posts: 6,440 | Location: Chilling

Welcome to the aftermath of the Vietnam war and the OPEC embargo. Blame Nixon for pushing the U.S. to Neo-Liberalism and taking off the gold.
   
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sykozis
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Default 10-18-2013, 13:31 | posts: 16,602 | Location: US East Coast

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Originally Posted by Chillin View Post
Welcome to the aftermath of the Vietnam war and the OPEC embargo. Blame Nixon for pushing the U.S. to Neo-Liberalism and taking off the gold.
Our economy was perfectly stable and the national debt was well under control until our government decided to start it's "war on terrorism".... When Clinton left office we had a balanced budget (no deficit) and our debt was actually being paid down. That all got reversed during G.W. Bush's first term.


   
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Chillin
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Default 10-18-2013, 13:57 | posts: 6,440 | Location: Chilling

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
Our economy was perfectly stable and the national debt was well under control until our government decided to start it's "war on terrorism".... When Clinton left office we had a balanced budget (no deficit) and our debt was actually being paid down. That all got reversed during G.W. Bush's first term.
In which universe was this? Clinton came in riding high on the tail end of a recession. That's not to say his economic policies were worse than many other presidents; to the contrary, they made him look amazing in comparison.



You also had the Dot-Com bubble burst around the time of the "War on Terror"; not as if spending nearly $6 Trillion dollars helps.

Then you have the wonderful taxation breakdowns:
   
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Brasky
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:08 | posts: 1,749 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
Raising the debt ceiling only allows Congress to pay the bills for the money they already spent. Which they approved to spend by the way.
lol, yep, raising the debt ceiling doesn't increase the national debt... and 2+2=5
   
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nhlkoho
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:18 | posts: 4,899 | Location: Washington DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
lol, yep, raising the debt ceiling doesn't increase the national debt... and 2+2=5
It wouldn't if Congress could pass a balanced budget that didn't allow them to spend more than we had. You obviously have no idea how it works.

Last edited by nhlkoho; 10-18-2013 at 15:20.
   
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sykozis
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:36 | posts: 16,602 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillin View Post
In which universe was this? Clinton came in riding high on the tail end of a recession. That's not to say his economic policies were worse than many other presidents; to the contrary, they made him look amazing in comparison.



You also had the Dot-Com bubble burst around the time of the "War on Terror"; not as if spending nearly $6 Trillion dollars helps.

Then you have the wonderful taxation breakdowns:
When Clinton was in office, and administrations prior to, the US Gov't was essentially borrowing from US citizens by selling Treasury bonds, not borrowing from other countries. The Clinton administration, at one point, was actually working on a debt buy-back program (buying back those treasury bonds).

There's a big difference between owing money to citizens, and owing money to foreign countries. Internal debt (money owed to tax payers) is more easily sustainable long-term than external debt (money owed to other countries) where monthly or yearly payments are mandated. A 30-year Treasury bond gives the Gov't 30 years before they have to pay out on the bond....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
It wouldn't if Congress could pass a balanced budget that didn't allow them to spend more than we had. You obviously have no idea how it works.
Passing a balanced budget doesn't necessarily reduce debt, nor does it guarantee that debt won't increase. The gov't is still free to spend outside of the set budget.



Last edited by sykozis; 10-18-2013 at 15:58.
   
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Brasky
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:54 | posts: 1,749 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
It wouldn't if Congress could pass a balanced budget that didn't allow them to spend more than we had. You obviously have no idea how it works.
obviously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPEJIQPWN0
   
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WindtalkerCS
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Default 10-18-2013, 16:01 | posts: 446 | Location: Upstate NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
Passing a balanced budget doesn't necessarily reduce debt, nor does it guarantee that debt won't increase. The gov't is still free to spend outside of the set budget.
It's certainly better than passing a budget that relies on borrowing though.
   
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Brasky
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Default 10-21-2013, 17:17 | posts: 1,749 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
It wouldn't if Congress could pass a balanced budget that didn't allow them to spend more than we had. You obviously have no idea how it works.
328 Billion in one day
http://rt.com/usa/us-debt-record-default-obama-412/
   
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Default 10-21-2013, 17:56 | posts: 716 | Location: Tonawanda

The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind - Hidden Secrets of Money 4? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
   
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Default 10-21-2013, 18:19 | posts: 147

Quote:
Originally Posted by CronoGraal
why not just wipe the debt and have countries deal with it? :-)
Thats a good idea but sadly not part of the agenda
   
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DSparil
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Default 10-21-2013, 20:17 | posts: 2,914 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Obama is the biggest spender America has ever had in office. He's almost like a little kid, spending all of his allowance and asking his parents for more, while emptying the piggy banks. I am almost embarrassed to be an American anymore with our current governments state of complete dysfunction.
   
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Default 10-22-2013, 01:19 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Shh..be quiet^ , The liberals might hear you.......They think we can borrow our way out of debt...$17 trillion and counting.
   
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Default 10-22-2013, 01:45 | posts: 1,841

oh.. 17 trillon dollars, are they going to pay that? really? seems like china & japan are screwed imho
   
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airbud7
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Default 10-22-2013, 01:54 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by EspHack View Post
oh.. 17 trillon dollars, are they going to pay that? really? seems like china & japan are screwed imho

6 years ago it was half that^.......2 years from now it will be 20 trillon....Mark my word 10/21/2013....
   
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Brasky
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:06 | posts: 1,749 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by EspHack View Post
oh.. 17 trillon dollars, are they going to pay that? really? seems like china & japan are screwed imho
if they were smart they would have cut us off quicker than they are thinking of... but it guess since they are in for a penny they are in for a pound.
   
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DSparil
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:09 | posts: 2,914 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by airbud7 View Post
6 years ago it was half that^.......2 years from now it will be 20 trillon....Mark my word 10/21/2013....
yep. Clinton even had the United States in a surplus. Then W Bush took office and we went to war against "waapons of mass destrukshun". Then the Obaminator inherited a REALLY big credit card when he took office, and he is making full use of it. You're right though Air, we might upset the liberals. Lets keep this talk on the dl. lol

Last edited by DSparil; 10-22-2013 at 02:12.
   
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airbud7
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:20 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
if they were smart they would have cut us off quicker than they are thinking of... but it guess since they are in for a penny they are in for a pound.

Why do I think this^ is the correct way to look at it as an American? (because I am one don't make it right).....

Thanks Brasky for the new insight on the subject....
   
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airbud7
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:36 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSparil View Post
yep. Clinton even had the United States in a surplus. Then W Bush took office and we went to war against "waapons of mass destrukshun". Then the Obaminator inherited a REALLY big credit card when he took office, and he is making full use of it. You're right though Air, we might upset the liberals. Lets keep this talk on the dl. lol

Agree with everything^.... except the W Bush part....He was a new President and they flew 2 jet airliners into the twin towers......It could/would have been different had that not happened!!.......
   
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WindtalkerCS
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:50 | posts: 446 | Location: Upstate NY

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Originally Posted by airbud7 View Post
Agree with everything^.... except the W Bush part....He was a new President and they flew 2 jet airliners into the twin towers......It could/would have been different had that not happened!!.......
You are thinking Afganistan, Iraq didn't do anything but exist, which apparently really bothered Bush.
   
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airbud7
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Default 10-22-2013, 02:57 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

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You are thinking Afganistan, Iraq didn't do anything but exist, which apparently really bothered Bush.

What would you do as a new president on 9/11/2001?.......
   
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