Guru3D.com Forums

Go Back   Guru3D.com Forums > General Chat > Frontpage news
Frontpage news Perhaps you have some news to report or want to check out the latest Guru3D headlines and comment ? Check it in here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
AMD Explains Why Mantle Is Exclusive To PC & Not Present On Xbox One
Old
  (#1)
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
 
Hilbert Hagedoorn's Avatar
 
Videocard: AMD | NVIDIA
Processor: Core i7 4770K
Mainboard: Z77
Memory: 8GB
Soundcard: X-Fi - GigaWorks 7.1
PSU: 1200 Watt
Default AMD Explains Why Mantle Is Exclusive To PC & Not Present On Xbox One - 10-15-2013, 08:32 | posts: 20,473 | Location: Guru3D testlab

Very interesting as even myself expected that Project Mantle would be compaible with Xbox One.Â*Microsoft revealed that Xbox One only supports DX 11.x as its API. Contrary to rumors, Xbox One does not...

AMD Explains Why Mantle Is Exclusive To PC & Not Present On Xbox One
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#2)
WhiteLightning
Ancient Guru
 
WhiteLightning's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA 780GTX ACX
Processor: i7-2600k HT @ 4.5 +H70 PP
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-GD65 GAMING
Memory: Gskill 2133Mhz 8GB
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: Corsair 1000 watt
Default 10-15-2013, 08:41 | posts: 23,212 | Location: Hoek van Holland, Netherlands

its not just a exclusive api for PC, but a exclusive api for just AMD cards (7xxx and up) isnt it ?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
xafier
Maha Guru
 
xafier's Avatar
 
Videocard: 7950 @ 1Ghz
Processor: 2500k @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard:
Memory: 8Gb 1600mhz
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Antec EcoWatt 620w
Default 10-15-2013, 08:41 | posts: 811 | Location: Sheffield, England

You would hope that they have made Mantle as close as possible to coding bare-metal on the PS4 and XBox One. Otherwise I just can't see it being adopted, especially when they will still need to write a DirectX / OpenGL version as well for Nvidia / Intel graphics.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
StealBalls
Banned
 
Videocard: MSI 280x CrossFire
Processor: Intel 4670K@ 4.4Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Z87 Pro
Memory: 8GB Corsair 1866Mhz CL9
Soundcard: AMD HD Audio
PSU: Corsair RM Series 850W
Default 10-15-2013, 08:56 | posts: 649 | Location: W.A.K.T

Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#5)
PCElite
Master Guru
 
PCElite's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI R9 280X Gaming
Processor: i5 4670K
Mainboard: Asus Gryphon Z87
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB
Soundcard:
PSU: AX Series 760
Default 10-15-2013, 09:11 | posts: 323

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealBalls View Post
Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.

If they are smart, thats there plan.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
Koniakki
Maha Guru
 
Koniakki's Avatar
 
Videocard: Palit 780Ti JS@1280/7500
Processor: Intel 3770k@4.6G's
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 OC Formula
Memory: Kingston P-X 16GB@2400Mhz
Soundcard: Asrock SPDIF-OUT
PSU: XFX BLACK PRO 750W GOLD
Default 10-15-2013, 10:06 | posts: 1,383 | Location: Inside My Thoughts..

Stop delaying Hilbert and post those R9-290X reviews!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
 
Hilbert Hagedoorn's Avatar
 
Videocard: AMD | NVIDIA
Processor: Core i7 4770K
Mainboard: Z77
Memory: 8GB
Soundcard: X-Fi - GigaWorks 7.1
PSU: 1200 Watt
Default 10-15-2013, 10:09 | posts: 20,473 | Location: Guru3D testlab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koniakki View Post
Stop delaying Hilbert and post those R9-290X reviews!
Not this week ...


Follow Guru3D on twitter.
Follow Guru3D on facebook.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
lmimmfn
Ancient Guru
 
lmimmfn's Avatar
 
Videocard: 780 Ti
Processor: i7 920@4.05Ghz/Noctua D12
Mainboard: Gigabyte X58 UD5
Memory: 9Gig XMS3 1600 C8
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DGX
PSU: OCZ 1250
Default 10-15-2013, 10:30 | posts: 9,584 | Location: Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn View Post
Not this week ...
boooo
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
Lane
Ancient Guru
 
Videocard: 2x HD7970 - EK Waterblock
Processor: I7 4930K H2o EK Supremacy
Mainboard: Asus X79 Deluxe
Memory: G-Skill C9 2133mhz 16GB
Soundcard: X-FI Titanium HD + SP2500
PSU: CM 1000W
Default 10-15-2013, 10:30 | posts: 5,383 | Location: Switzerland

Quote:
Originally Posted by xafier View Post
You would hope that they have made Mantle as close as possible to coding bare-metal on the PS4 and XBox One. Otherwise I just can't see it being adopted, especially when they will still need to write a DirectX / OpenGL version as well for Nvidia / Intel graphics.
Taking in account the Low level API on the xbox one and PS4 are made for GCN architecture and have have access to close metal programming, and like Mantle is too an API who allow close to metal programming, the port or the use is clearly similar.

Even if is not a straight "Mantle API ":

- XboxOne and Ps4 use an API who access low level close to metal programming on AMD GCN architecture.

- Mantle is an API for PC who allow the same access to low level close to metal programming on AMD GCN architectures.

Even if the "software ( API ) part " is different.. they are surely close enough as they do more or less the same thing. Anyway we will know more on november.

Last edited by Lane; 10-15-2013 at 10:56.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
eclap
Ancient Guru
 
eclap's Avatar
 
Videocard: HD7950 CFX + Qnix QX2710
Processor: i5 2500k @4.5 1.2v
Mainboard: Asus P8Z77-V Pro
Memory: 8GB G-Skill RipjawsX 1600
Soundcard: SB Z/Aune T1/AD700/DT880
PSU: XFX Black 750W 80+ Gold
Default 10-15-2013, 10:34 | posts: 25,799 | Location: Hampshire UK

that's what I'm thinking, both consoles run gcn hardware and a low level api, there will be similarities.
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#11)
Koniakki
Maha Guru
 
Koniakki's Avatar
 
Videocard: Palit 780Ti JS@1280/7500
Processor: Intel 3770k@4.6G's
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 OC Formula
Memory: Kingston P-X 16GB@2400Mhz
Soundcard: Asrock SPDIF-OUT
PSU: XFX BLACK PRO 750W GOLD
Default 10-15-2013, 10:39 | posts: 1,383 | Location: Inside My Thoughts..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn View Post
Not this week ...
Oh well... It worth a shot anyway... Thanks Hilb.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Wendig0
Master Guru
 
Wendig0's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI 4890 1GB
Processor: Intel e8400 @ 3.6 GHz
Mainboard: Abit IP35 Pro
Memory: G.Skill 2x2GB
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Hiper 730W
Default 10-15-2013, 10:57 | posts: 718 | Location: Utah, USA

Not the best of news but we'll see how things turn out.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
DiceAir
Master Guru
 
Videocard: 2x Club3D R9-280x RK
Processor: i7-4790k Stock
Mainboard: MSI z97 Gaming 5
Memory: 16GB corsair 1600MHz
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Z
PSU: Corsair ax850w
Default 10-15-2013, 11:19 | posts: 451 | Location: South Africa

What the hell AMD. We need to se the 290x benchmarks. I want to upgrade to this cards before BF4 comes out and If I don't order this week I might not even get it at the launch of BF4. BTW I'm in SA.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
lantian
Member Guru
 
Videocard: gainward gtx 670 2gb
Processor: fx 8120
Mainboard:
Memory:
Soundcard:
PSU: coolermaster gx 750w
Default 10-15-2013, 11:28 | posts: 51

im just laughing about all the hiped people before when amd first announced all this and they were like hell yeah supper crads new technology new api and all you got was a rebrand. Everyone who followed the market last couple of yours could have seen this coming, mantle is still in beta and has no announcements except for BF4 and ofcourse microsoft will not use mantle on xbox one as for mantle we already had such api in the past and we moved away from them so unless amd makes it open enough and usable for nvidia it will not catch on
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
Loobyluggs
Maha Guru
 
Loobyluggs's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA 670 FTW
Processor: Intel 3770k
Mainboard: Asus P8z77-v pro
Memory: DDR3 16GB Corsair
Soundcard: Creative Labs Recon 3D
PSU: Corsair
Default 10-15-2013, 11:31 | posts: 1,114 | Location: UK

And lo, thousands of AMD fanbois cried out in terror and then were suddenly silenced.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#16)
Scyphe
Master Guru
 
Scyphe's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI Radeon 7950@1150/1700
Processor: Intel Core i5 3570K
Mainboard: MSI Z77-GD65
Memory: G.Skill 4x4GB DDR3
Soundcard: Line6 POD HD300
PSU: Corsair RM750
Default 10-15-2013, 11:44 | posts: 411 | Location: Sweden

Mantle is DX HLSL-compatible, you can develop for DX11.x, use the Mantle-API to optimise a lot of graphics coding/performance (just like some games have PhysX-options although the value of that is pretty much nil since the performance hit is usually not worth it for most Geforce-owners), nVidia can write a Mantle-driver for their cards (but they probably won't). AMD have said that nothing stops nVidia from writing a driver that works with Mantle on their GPU's.

We'll see where this will go. Impossible to say anything at this point.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#17)
lmimmfn
Ancient Guru
 
lmimmfn's Avatar
 
Videocard: 780 Ti
Processor: i7 920@4.05Ghz/Noctua D12
Mainboard: Gigabyte X58 UD5
Memory: 9Gig XMS3 1600 C8
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DGX
PSU: OCZ 1250
Default 10-15-2013, 12:06 | posts: 9,584 | Location: Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by lantian View Post
im just laughing about all the hiped people before when amd first announced all this and they were like hell yeah supper crads new technology new api and all you got was a rebrand. Everyone who followed the market last couple of yours could have seen this coming, mantle is still in beta and has no announcements except for BF4 and ofcourse microsoft will not use mantle on xbox one as for mantle we already had such api in the past and we moved away from them so unless amd makes it open enough and usable for nvidia it will not catch on
NVidia will never use it,if it takes off they'll have their own similar API( that they can control ).

Im more interested in seeing if this will be available on Linux and if it will mean more PC games will be available on Linux( i hate Windows, would move in a second if top games were available on Linux ), M$ has done its best to hold PC gaming back, forcing delays of PC ports with $$$, having a crap PC GFWL, not porting most of M$ developed Xbox games.
I would love to see sales of their OS's hurting if gamers moved to Linux, might be a pipe dream but sure we live in hope.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
sykozis
Ancient Guru
 
sykozis's Avatar
 
Videocard: eVGA GTX660SC SLI
Processor: Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Memory: 8gb G.Skill DDR3-1866
Soundcard: Creative Recon3D PCIe
PSU: SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze
Default 10-15-2013, 13:23 | posts: 16,073 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by lantian View Post
im just laughing about all the hiped people before when amd first announced all this and they were like hell yeah supper crads new technology new api and all you got was a rebrand. Everyone who followed the market last couple of yours could have seen this coming, mantle is still in beta and has no announcements except for BF4 and ofcourse microsoft will not use mantle on xbox one as for mantle we already had such api in the past and we moved away from them so unless amd makes it open enough and usable for nvidia it will not catch on
Mantle is open and NVidia is completely free to use it if they so choose. That has been stated several times. With AMD controlling all 3 consoles, NVidia is [in reality] irrelevant in whether or not Mantle takes off. It's solely up to developers and whether or not they want to make use of it.


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
peshkohacka
Member Guru
 
Videocard: ***8962;
Processor: ***9524;
Mainboard:
Memory:
Soundcard:
PSU: ***9580;
Default 10-15-2013, 14:16 | posts: 110

....

Last edited by peshkohacka; 06-22-2014 at 16:12.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
kens30
Maha Guru
 
kens30's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus DC2-OC 2gb GTX770
Processor: 2700K 4.8 1.28v/5ghz 1.38
Mainboard: Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe
Memory: Corsair 1866 cl9 OC 16gb
Soundcard: Optical out+Sony amp 5.1
PSU: Corsair AX860 Platinum
Default 10-15-2013, 14:41 | posts: 863 | Location: Greece/Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealBalls View Post
Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.
Well if you look at it in another way this might be a good thing for the future of pc gaming.First let's look at gpu's as i high end scalable console (Nvidia and AMD) each with their own api and exclusives like the console market (Microsoft and Sony) which are both competitors.Now the difference between them is what they have to offer for sale.Sony and Microsoft are stuck on one console for the next 5-10 years but AMD and Nvidia until then they would have hundreds of different variants of Gpu's for sale.If AMD and Nvidia would step in a new direction they could each make their own api and operating system exclusively for gaming only based on their hardware. As technology progresses users won't need i high end rig anymore to play AAA titles as more features get embedded on the card itself like what Amd is doing now with including a DSP for sound.This as a reaction could expand their business even further if they pay game studios to take advantage out of their cards and OP systems like the web has done with endless possibilities.Only then we could get (finally) rid of Windows for gaming and leave it for other purposes only and have a much better experience and performance plus almost? no more pirated games...Anyway i could go on and on but i will put a stop here.
I might be dreaming but only time will show...........
   
Reply With Quote
Gliding to obscurity: no consoles in Mantle’s crust
Old
  (#21)
Rich_Guy
Ancient Guru
 
Rich_Guy's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSi Gaming 290X 1080/1250
Processor: i7 920 D0
Mainboard: Biostar Tpower x58
Memory: 6GB Corsair DDR3
Soundcard: Xonar DX - Logi. X-530s
PSU: Corsair AX860w
Default Gliding to obscurity: no consoles in Mantle’s crust - 10-15-2013, 15:15 | posts: 8,695 | Location: UK

Quote:
AMD’s cross-platform API, which promises ease of development across platforms that use graphics core next (GCN), will not be coming to consoles, Microsoft and AMD confirm.

Late Monday night U.S. time Microsoft published a blog post confirming that the Xbox One’s only API will be DirectX 11.x, and will closely resemble a superset of DirectX 11.2 at launch.

“The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality,” Microsoft wrote. “Other graphics APIs such as OpenGL and AMD’s Mantle are not available on Xbox One.”

Shortly after, AMD followed up to Microsoft’s post with a comment to DSOgaming:

“What Mantle creates for the PC is a development environment that’s *similar* to the consoles, which already offer low-level APIs, close-to-metal programming, easier development and more (vs. the complicated PC environment). By creating a more console-like developer environment, Mantle: improves time to market; reduces development costs; and allows for considerably more efficient rendering, improving performance for gamers. The console connection is made because next-gen uses Radeon, so much of the programming they’re doing for the consoles are already well-suited to a modern Radeon architecture on the desktop; that continuum is what allows Mantle to exist.”

For AMD, this is a rather large backtrack from what it implied at #gpu14.

It also throws into doubt the position it has been taking all summer.

The company was confident that it was moving to be the dominant GPU platform because its IP powers both major next-generation consoles, and it is launching what it called a cross-platform development tool to ease development on common GCN platforms.

At Computex, AMD’s general manager of graphics, Matt Syknner, said in an interview that AMD providing IP to both major consoles would ensure that it was the dominant GPU company as developing across the PC-Xbox One-Playstation 4 ecoystem would be much easier given the similar hardware.

“We’re using the console success as a leverage point for success in other markets…when those [games] port over, they are going to run great on our hardware,” he said during an interview. When asked about why Nvidia can’t match what AMD has he said, “because they don’t have the opportunities in the consoles that we have.”

At #gpu14 in Honolulu last month, AMD’s position on dominance expanded to include an API called Mantle that would ease cross-platform development. Mantle is said to offer “bare metal” access to GCN, emulating the console style “close-to-metal” APIs on the PC, while also augmenting existing APIs on consoles (or replacing, as Microsoft may have thought). Because of the common platform, as AMD had previously said, and now because of the common cross console API, as AMD now implied at #gpu14, cross-platform development will be much easier than before.

“I think one of the benefits that game developers are going to realize is that because of their strong familiarity with the PC already, and developing on our hardware, we anticipate development budgets to be somewhere less or lower because they won’t have to spend as much development time and the learning curve is much shorter,” AMD’s Richie Corpus said to VR-Zone during the conference.

Now that Mantle has been confirmed not to be on consoles, it’s quickly looking like another Glide. Should Mantle have been cross-platform, supported by both major consoles, the competitive bargain of the new and relatively unknown API would that it would have enabled much simpler cross platform development. With the cross-platform development factor out of the equation, and Mantle not open to the public until 2014-2015, as per AMD’s Corpus, why would developers use it instead of sticking with tried-and-true open standards? The eulogy of CUDA and PhysX was written because “our industry doesn’t like proprietary standards” as Roy Taylor said.

More details on Mantle won’t be available until AMD’s APU developer conference in November. Perhaps then the company will further define the place of Mantle in the gaming ecoystem.

But until then, it looks as if AMD stomped on its competitor’s card a little too soon. After all, hubris sinks ships.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/gliding-...ust/60434.html
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright (c) 1995-2014, All Rights Reserved. The Guru of 3D, the Hardware Guru, and 3D Guru are trademarks owned by Hilbert Hagedoorn.