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Suggested settings for Mushkin Enhanced PC3200?
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trodas
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Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Question Suggested settings for Mushkin Enhanced PC3200? - 10-11-2013, 14:36 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

I would kindly like to ask about suggested settings for best performance of these Mushkin Enhanced PC3200 sticks with Winbond BH-6 chips in them, IIRC. I currently running one stick (dunno where the others are, but I look them up) of this 512MB dimm into Sapphire PI-A9RX480 mobo (S939) at these settings - bold ones I did not understand well:

Sapphire Grouper A9RX480 mobo settings, Opteron 148
FSB bus frequency - 279Mhz
HTT divider ratio - 800Mhz or 4x
CPU FSB multiplier - 10
PCIExpress frequency - 111

To get the idea what settings are there, take a look:


Radeon Xpress 200 Voltage - Default (1.22V)
CPU Voltage - Default (1.40V)
HTT Voltage - Default (1,22V)
PCI-E 1.2 Voltage - Default (1,22V)
PCI-E 1.8 Voltage - Default (1,80V)

HT Link Configuration - Enabled
Upstream LDT Bus Width - 16bit
Downstream LDT Bus Width - 16bit
LDT Bush Frequency - 800Mhz (4 x FSB)
NB HT PLL Control - Manual
PLL High Speed Mode - High Speed
PLL Stability Calibration - 00 (00 - 1F)

Memclock DRAM Frequency divider - 166 (that give about 231MHz for the rams)
Refresh Period (Tref) - 200 - 7.8us

1T/2T mem timing (Command Per Clock) - 1T
Read Preamble Time - 5,5ns
Async Latency value - 7ns

R/W Queue Bypass Count - 16x
Dynamic Iddle Counter - Disabled
IdleCycle Limit - 256 cycles
Bypass Max - 7
Memory DQ Drive Strength - Not Reduced
ODD divisor correct - Disabled
DRAM Drive Strength - Normal Drive
DQS Hysteresis - Disabled
Burst20pt - Disabled
Digital Locked Loop (DLL) - Enabled
Disable Jitter - Disabled
DDR Memory Drive Strength - Nominal
Dual DIMM - Auto
DLL Speed Override - Enabled
DLL Speed - High Speed

32 Byte Granularity - Disabled

currently running at 200MHz Mushkin Ehnanced PC3200 settings:
TCL - 2
TRAS - 6
TRCD - 2
TRP - 2
TRRD - 2
TRC - 8
TRFC - 24
TRWT - 2
TWTR - 2

TWR - 2
2,72V

What I aim at is this:
1) I would like to know how best set the timings (mainly the ones in bold)
2) I would like to know, what settings to relax fist, when I hit a wall with pushing clock up (IIRC at 216MHz first problems arise with the 2-2-2-6 settings)


PS. TWTR set to 1 - no chance in speed, so, useless
TRWT set to 1 - and from 1610 we get to 1635MB/s Not bad, not bad
TRFC - when set to 9 the ram did not made it and the mobo is just desperately beeping. Settings 16, 14 and 12 works, but absolutely no increase (and no decrease either) in speed. 11 is tested right now in Prime95 and looks like it is holding well...

According to the french tweakers ( http://www.tweakers.fr/timings.html ) it should be:
optimal TRAS = TCL + TRCD + 2 ( in this case then 6 )
optimal TRC = TRAS + TRP ( in this case then 8 )
...and the TREF the bigger the better. That make sense, because the faster the ram need to be refreshed, the less time remain for CPU to access it... But it is the TREF setting named in this mobo as TRFC...?

Also I'm very interesed about te Memory DQ Drive Strength setting - they write in this overclock quite:
http://digilander.libero.it/ing.trip...Xpress3200.pdf
...that setting Not reduced if good for CPUs with CG and D revision/stepping. On the other hand, for CPUs with revision/stepping E should be the drive strenght lowered to reach maximum overclock. For example with Samsung TCCD 512MB ram and revision/stepping E is necessary to lower the Memory DQ Drive Strength to 50%.

So the million dollar question is, what revision/stepping my Opteron 148 have:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/grouper/Opty148_2.htm
...to me this looks like as revision E, so the lowering of the DQ Drive Strenght should be in order...?


PS2. Trying first little steps by overclocking it and I hit wall right away... 210MHz did not boot to Win, 209 will, but never finish even SuperPi 1M test, so... bad bad overclocking. I must do something very wrong...
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Thumbs down 10-11-2013, 14:41 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

After following a Mushkin advice from their support forum to set loose timings first, I get nasty surprise. Loosening the timings to 3-3-3-8 TRC 13 and TRFC 18 cause bios lockup and mobo beeping desperately. I quess that, like VIA, the CAS 3 is probably no-go on the RX480 chipset

So, this settings works fine:


There is Everest report about the rams:


...and I tried the relaxed settings into the AMD64Tweaker (getting tired of setting the bios and bricking the mobo):

Set 3-3-3-8 TRC 14 and TRFC 18 - immediate lockup, total freeze.
Set just TCL to 3 - immediate lockup, total freeze.
...
So I tried TCL 2.5 setting (just this) - and it seems to work, worked for half of sec, till I tried to move my cursor to set the another settings to 3... to get relaxed timings.

The mainboard seems refuse to accept anything bellow TCL 2 at this point. But with TCCD rams I used it at 2,5-3-3-7 TRC 16 and TRFC 18! That is nuts. No drive strenght (Memory DQ Drive Strength, DRAM Drive Strength and DDR Memory Drive Strength) changed from default.

Beats me.

Could be that the NB HTT PLL Control set to High speed and also the PLL High Speed Mode set to High Speed predetermine that nothing under TCL 2 is acceptable? Nop... it freezed when I disable both of these settings as well
   
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BLEH!
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Videocard: 2*7970 @ 1000/1500
Processor: "Core i9" @ 4.2 GHz
Mainboard: Gigabyte X79S-UP5
Memory: 16GB@1600MHz@9-9-9-24
Soundcard: Saffire Pro40/KRK Rokit 5
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Default 10-11-2013, 15:51 | posts: 4,639 | Location: Not Far North Enough (England)

Man that's getting hardcore into the OC settings. What DRAM voltage you running?
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Red face 10-11-2013, 20:56 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

Only 2.74V, seems to be adequate and I don't think that I should be getting any higher ATM. But the mobo support up to 4.40V, witch will kill CPU (more that 2V difference between Vcore and Vdimm is sure death) ...

And following advice from TechpowerUp tests that AMD 64 memory controllers works best with the TRAS 7 I changed the setting accordingly (TRAS 7 - means that the TRP have to be 9), yet no speed-up. Also no slow-down, so when it is recommended for AMD 64, then why not?
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/crucial/tracer4000/
Quote:
TRAS always at 7, this gives highest memory bandwith when used with the Integrated Memory Controller (IMC) of the Athlon64.
And yep, I trying to get as deep, as I can and understand these settings. I also would like some overclock, for christ sake! 208MHz is pathetic at best and unstable on top of that = useless...

Also I'm somewhat in shock, that the mobo refuse to work w/o TCL 2 settings. Most rams cannot even get TCL 2 and using OCZ TCCD sticks I was running at TCL 2.5... so WTF?!
   
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DSparil
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Default 10-11-2013, 21:46 | posts: 2,907 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Ohh, this reminds me of me about a year ago. Trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of a very dated system, with PC3200 RAM. At the time I was running 2GB of OCZ Platinum with VERY tight timings an an old socket 939 ASUS A8N mobo. Eventually I gave up, because other than Mass Effect 2 on a bottlenecked Radeon 5750 at the time, I couldn't run games the way they should be run. I made the plunge, saved up a few dollars and split the rest of the new build purchase with Paypal.

It might be about time to go the same route my friend. That system has squeezed its last lemon!

Last edited by DSparil; 10-11-2013 at 21:49.
   
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Deathchild
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Default 10-11-2013, 22:06 | posts: 1,912 | Location: Estonia

It served you well.
   
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BLEH!
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PSU: Enermax Revo 1500W
Default 10-11-2013, 23:08 | posts: 4,639 | Location: Not Far North Enough (England)

Actually, you're in Europe, I've got a pair of DDR 500 MHz CAS 2 DIMMs if they're any use to you...
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Default 10-12-2013, 00:34 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

DSparil -
Quote:
2GB of OCZ Platinum with VERY tight timings an an old socket 939 ASUS A8N mobo.
Yup, that must be interesting. I'm sure you get more MHz out of it as well? I can get only a very tight timings, but no overclock. That is what hunting me.
Not to mention the Sapphire PI-A9RX480 mobo is very touchy. What I mean by that? Well, todays I wanted to run MaxxMem on it, and on start of the program it freeze and never boot back. Bios clearing is on it's way... but I know why this is happening. Certain addresses on SMBus (0x2C-0x2F) must NOT be touched, or bios clearing is in order... that hard it crash.
Find that with HWiNFO autor, should be soon adopted with CPU-Z autor - ATM CPU-Z can run only with the ini file change SMBios=0

Quote:
new build purchase... It might be about time to go the same route my friend.
You are right, but I did not have the money And it is not going to change in near future, so I have to manage with what I got. I had more stuff, but it is stolen...

Sure a i3, i5 or even i7 rig with decent graphic card would be great, but nowhere to get it.


Deathchild - nope, it is job is not yet done - I want to use it. I know it is a outdated system, but I currently typing this on P4 system that have terrible problems with AGP (running GFX card in PCI mode) ...
So I would like to make it work.


BLEH! - I would kill for any decent DDR (1) ram that will work on at least a bit higher that 200MHz clock - if TCL 2, then the better. But I cannot offer you much for them, mate...
What they are, as for capacity/chips?


Meanwhile I try bug Mushkin on some suggestions, because IIRC these sticks should work well at at least 215, 216MHz with tight timings...
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Default 10-15-2013, 12:57 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

Hmmm, Mushkin suggested more voltage and it did not quite work as it should still.

So, bump for some suggestions... and for BLEH!
   
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BLEH!
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Videocard: 2*7970 @ 1000/1500
Processor: "Core i9" @ 4.2 GHz
Mainboard: Gigabyte X79S-UP5
Memory: 16GB@1600MHz@9-9-9-24
Soundcard: Saffire Pro40/KRK Rokit 5
PSU: Enermax Revo 1500W
Default 10-15-2013, 16:03 | posts: 4,639 | Location: Not Far North Enough (England)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas View Post
DSparil -
BLEH! - I would kill for any decent DDR (1) ram that will work on at least a bit higher that 200MHz clock - if TCL 2, then the better. But I cannot offer you much for them, mate...
What they are, as for capacity/chips?


Meanwhile I try bug Mushkin on some suggestions, because IIRC these sticks should work well at at least 215, 216MHz with tight timings...
They're GSkill IIRC. 500 MHz, CAS 2 or 2.5, 2.8 V, 2 x 512 MB. 5 plus shipping would be fine, no idea what that'd cost though :/
   
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DSparil
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PSU: TT Toughpower XT 675
Default 10-15-2013, 17:09 | posts: 2,907 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas View Post
DSparil -

Yup, that must be interesting. I'm sure you get more MHz out of it as well? I can get only a very tight timings, but no overclock. That is what hunting me.
Not to mention the Sapphire PI-A9RX480 mobo is very touchy. What I mean by that? Well, todays I wanted to run MaxxMem on it, and on start of the program it freeze and never boot back. Bios clearing is on it's way... but I know why this is happening. Certain addresses on SMBus (0x2C-0x2F) must NOT be touched, or bios clearing is in order... that hard it crash.
Find that with HWiNFO autor, should be soon adopted with CPU-Z autor - ATM CPU-Z can run only with the ini file change SMBios=0
Oh yes. It was all about the timings back then, and I had that RAM pushed hard with an overclock on the FSB as well. I don't remember what I had that set at, but I am pretty sure I had that OCZ Platinum pushed to plutonium levels I kept that system as long as gamingly possible.
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Red face 10-18-2013, 11:27 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

BLEH! - thank you for the nice offer. But... that give only 1G or ram total, witch is good for overclocking attempts and so on... but hardly for any use. I need 2G of ram for BF2 ...so, no, this won't help me to get the machine back into working and somewhat usable state...

Not to mention that it looks like the ram is getting weird, lol:



...and if this is not thanks to the ram, but to the board, then any ram is useless for me. Gotta first figure that out... Moving it to another simm bank fixed things for this old 2,5-4-4-9 ram. Then tested the 2-2-2-6 ram and worked too!
Then tried to set tight timings... and no post. Clearing bios again, sigh...

At least Franck fixed CPU-Z - not crashing on the mobo and reporting accurate Vcore:
http://valid.canardpc.com/lql2fb
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:05 | posts: 23,743 | Location: NZ

These were some of my timings if it helps.....


Last edited by Pill Monster; 10-18-2013 at 15:11.
   
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DSparil
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Videocard: HIS 7870 IceQ GHz 2GB
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PSU: TT Toughpower XT 675
Default 10-18-2013, 15:12 | posts: 2,907 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

^ 2T on the command rate Pill? Gotta crunch that to 1T!
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 10-18-2013, 15:48 | posts: 23,743 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSparil View Post
^ 2T on the command rate Pill? Gotta crunch that to 1T!
Yeah idk should all be 1T like Everest shows....maybe I was messing around with timings or something. Can't really remember tbh. lol

*Hmm looks like all dimm slots were filled so I guess that's why.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 10-18-2013 at 15:55.
   
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trodas
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Videocard: Sapphire R9100 250/200MHz
Processor: Pentium 4, 3400Mhz 2MB L2
Mainboard: MSI PM8M3-V (VIA P4M800)
Memory: DDR 2048MB 2-3-2-7 OCZ
Soundcard: onboard audio + stereo
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
Default 10-19-2013, 22:11 | posts: 306 | Location: Czech republic

Some old crappy 2x 256MB stick with Mushkin chips on it and terrible 3-4-4-8 timings can manage only 2T ... 1T even at 200MHz always fail even in memtest...

So some rams do really suxx. Their speed it just a small bit higher in doublechannel that 2-2-2-6 ram at 1T on singlechannel.

Shamefull, but good for testing right now.
   
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