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What happens if you install a 2 GB video card on a 32-bit OS?
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heymian
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Default What happens if you install a 2 GB video card on a 32-bit OS? - 09-14-2013, 23:50 | posts: 516 | Location: U.S.

Running with 4 GB of main memory. Since 32-bit OS'es can only "see" 4096 MB, half of that would be reserved for the video card. An additional portion would be reserved for other system devices. Which means you would actually have less than 2 GB of actual system memory allocated to applications. Is my understanding correct?
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 00:04 | posts: 831

If your video card is a 670 like in your sig, then you'll still have 4GB available to the system and the video card will have the full 2GB available, it won't 'take' 2GB from your system RAM.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 00:05 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

Pretty much, in any case nobody should be using a 32-bit OS on a modern system .
   
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thatguy91
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Default 09-15-2013, 00:11 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
If your video card is a 670 like in your sig, then you'll still have 4GB available to the system and the video card will have the full 2GB available, it won't 'take' 2GB from your system RAM.
No, on a 32-bit OS you will not have 4GB system RAM and full 2GB of video RAM!
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 00:40 | posts: 1,047 | Location: Tennessee

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
Pretty much, in any case nobody should be using a 32-bit OS on a modern system .
Some people dual boot. Like me, I run xp sp3 32bit for a few games and certian programs that just will not work in win 7x64.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 04:15 | posts: 9,164 | Location: Toledo

I don't think you'll have the full 4GB, but you won't have 2GB of available RAM either. I think the limit for how much the system has to reserve to address the GPU correctly is 5-700mb.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 04:52 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

It thought it depended on the video card memory size. When the issue first sprung up (people only having 3.3GB etc) they were running 512MB cards. I think with a 2GB card in some way, shape or form, your system will still be limited to 4GB, Even if it means 2.7GB system, 1GB video, plus the remaining requirements.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 05:35 | posts: 24,231 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
No, on a 32-bit OS you will not have 4GB system RAM and full 2GB of video RAM!
Yes he will. Video memory does not affect the amount of system memory available to the OS due to AWE/PAE.

Edit:- I'm talking about discrete video cards, not integrated GPU's....also remapping must be enabled in BIOS.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 09-15-2013 at 05:46.
   
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thatguy91
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Default 09-15-2013, 05:49 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

Apparently it's not quite as simple as that, according to this blog over on technet:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...1/3092070.aspx

So it's not quite like the video RAM reducing the system RAM by the video RAM amount (my mistake on that), but the actual scenario looks like it depends on the individual computer.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 06:09 | posts: 1,273 | Location: Langley,B.C. Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
Apparently it's not quite as simple as that, according to this blog over on technet:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...1/3092070.aspx

So it's not quite like the video RAM reducing the system RAM by the video RAM amount (my mistake on that), but the actual scenario looks like it depends on the individual computer.
Yes it depends on all the hardware installed as 32 bit can only address 4GB of ram.Ram available to the operating system will vary according to hardware that needs an address and the video card is just another piece of hardware..
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 06:42 | posts: 24,231 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
Apparently it's not quite as simple as that, according to this blog over on technet:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...1/3092070.aspx

So it's not quite like the video RAM reducing the system RAM by the video RAM amount (my mistake on that), but the actual scenario looks like it depends on the individual computer.
Well I don't see anything which contradicts what I said in my post....

Btw where in that blog does Mark mention anything about discrete video memory?
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 13:25 | posts: 2,725 | Location: florida

I know in my windows xp 32bit install I only have 3.3gb of memory... not 4gb
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 14:11 | posts: 7,009 | Location: 127.0.0.1

32bit OSs only have an issue addressing 4GB+ system RAM - the amount of VRAM on a GPU does not affect that

if you have a 2GB GPU, you will still have the same amount of system RAM as you would without the GPU
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 14:53 | posts: 16,596 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extraordinary View Post
32bit OSs only have an issue addressing 4GB+ system RAM - the amount of VRAM on a GPU does not affect that

if you have a 2GB GPU, you will still have the same amount of system RAM as you would without the GPU
The 4GB restriction is an artificial limitation. To allow support for more than 4GB on 32bit OS's, Microsoft would have to pay an additional licensing fee. To avoid that licensing fee, MS restrictions support to 4GB on most 32bit versions of Windows. Windows Server x86 Enterprise and Datacenter editions both support up to 64GB of RAM.

As for graphics cards...
Quote:
How graphics cards and other devices affect memory limits

Devices have to map their memory below 4 GB for compatibility with non-PAE-aware Windows releases. Therefore, if the system has 4GB of RAM, some of it is either disabled or is remapped above 4GB by the BIOS. If the memory is remapped, X64 Windows can use this memory. X86 client versions of Windows donít support physical memory above the 4GB mark, so they canít access these remapped regions. Any X64 Windows or X86 Server release can.

X86 client versions with PAE enabled do have a usable 37-bit (128 GB) physical address space. The limit that these versions impose is the highest permitted physical RAM address, not the size of the IO space. That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the "lost" memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory as a RAM disk.
Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx


   
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Default 09-15-2013, 18:33 | posts: 1,519 | Location: Moscow, Russia

Suspect that video frame buffer should be mapped so its size decreases available amount of RAM but not overall size of videocard`s memory.
   
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heymian
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Default 09-15-2013, 20:50 | posts: 516 | Location: U.S.

So according to the blog over on technet, my understanding is correct. The actual amount varies depending on the system. With a 1 GB video card dual booting into 32-bit WinXP, it shows 3.3 GB out of 4 GB of system memory available. So that's roughly an 800 MB chunk being taken out by the video card and other devices/resources. So with a 2 GB video card, that should still leave over 2 GB of system memory available for applications, which should be enough. Thank you all for your insight.
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 21:05 | posts: 7,009 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by heymian View Post
So according to the blog over on technet, my understanding is correct. The actual amount varies depending on the system. With a 1 GB video card dual booting into 32-bit WinXP, it shows 3.3 GB out of 4 GB of system memory available. So that's roughly an 800 MB chunk being taken out by the video card and other devices/resources. So with a 2 GB video card, that should still leave over 2 GB of system memory available for applications, which should be enough. Thank you all for your insight.
System RAM is showing 3.3GB because it is 32bit OS, not because of the GPU VRAM - unless it is an onboard GPU
   
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heymian
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Default 09-15-2013, 21:52 | posts: 516 | Location: U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extraordinary View Post
System RAM is showing 3.3GB because it is 32bit OS, not because of the GPU VRAM - unless it is an onboard GPU
According to the above mentioned article, this is incorrect (if I'm understanding it right).
   
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Default 09-15-2013, 21:53 | posts: 16,596 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by heymian View Post
So according to the blog over on technet, my understanding is correct. The actual amount varies depending on the system. With a 1 GB video card dual booting into 32-bit WinXP, it shows 3.3 GB out of 4 GB of system memory available. So that's roughly an 800 MB chunk being taken out by the video card and other devices/resources. So with a 2 GB video card, that should still leave over 2 GB of system memory available for applications, which should be enough. Thank you all for your insight.
Read this....
Quote:
How graphics cards and other devices affect memory limits

Devices have to map their memory below 4 GB for compatibility with non-PAE-aware Windows releases. Therefore, if the system has 4GB of RAM, some of it is either disabled or is remapped above 4GB by the BIOS. If the memory is remapped, X64 Windows can use this memory. X86 client versions of Windows donít support physical memory above the 4GB mark, so they canít access these remapped regions. Any X64 Windows or X86 Server release can.

X86 client versions with PAE enabled do have a usable 37-bit (128 GB) physical address space. The limit that these versions impose is the highest permitted physical RAM address, not the size of the IO space. That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the "lost" memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory as a RAM disk.
Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx


   
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Default 09-15-2013, 22:01 | posts: 7,009 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by heymian View Post
According to the above mentioned article, this is incorrect (if I'm understanding it right).
I've just installed 32bit XP into VMWare, I gave it 4GB RAM

XP reports 3GB RAM
iirc VMWare gives something like a 64MB GPU
My host system has a 2GB GPU
   
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Default 09-16-2013, 20:49 | posts: 24,231 | Location: NZ

^Then your motherboard doesn't support remapping.
   
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Default 09-22-2013, 17:02 | posts: 96

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
^Then your motherboard doesn't support remapping.
It doesn't matter. In non-server editions of Windows all access to memory above 4GB has been cut off. So remapped memory will not be available. So you will always have less than 4GB available.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 09-22-2013, 17:04 | posts: 24,231 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by gammelhat View Post
It doesn't matter. In non-server editions of Windows all access to memory above 4GB has been cut off. So remapped memory will not be available. So you will always have less than 4GB available.
That's not true.
Remapping isn't done by the OS it's done by the BIOS before the OS loads. Windows has nothing to do with it.

Edit:
I know what MSDN says btw, but that info is wrong. I have yet to see an OS that doesn't support PAE.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 09-22-2013 at 17:18.
   
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Default 09-22-2013, 17:17 | posts: 96

Yes, remapping is done by bios/hardware. The point is that remapped memory is addressed above 4G, so the OS will not be able to get to it. So even with remapping enabled, you will have less than 4 GB system ram.

MMIO is still located below 4G.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 09-22-2013, 17:20 | posts: 24,231 | Location: NZ

^Yep - I updated my post to cover that....

Last edited by Pill Monster; 09-22-2013 at 17:25.
   
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