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Fukushima Update
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Taint3dBulge
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Default Fukushima Update - 09-01-2013, 05:17 | posts: 1,068 | Location: South Dakota

This thing has been played down till recently. Its far worse then what most every one thought.

http://youtu.be/xT1-rkJCiuU


All those huge containers of water. What are they going to do with them. What happens if there is another EQ, tsunami or cyclone? Blows my mind how anyone could think this would be easy, but takes time to fix.

Around 7:30 shows how it will effect the pacific ocean.


More info here.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....ink/?hpt=hp_t4

Last edited by Taint3dBulge; 09-01-2013 at 05:31.
   
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IcE
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Default 09-01-2013, 05:53 | posts: 9,051 | Location: Toledo

Lol, sucks for Japan, but it's their own fault for not taking the proper measures and just expecting TEPCO to deal with it themselves. And don't start that nonsense again about how it's a world issue and that everyone is doomed. What happened after Chernobyl? World kept going as normal. What happened after over 2,000 nuclear tests? World kept going as normal.

That's not to say that this isn't important to deal with, but the construction of a proper holding tank facility instead of this hobbled nonsense should have been done ages ago or at least been started.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 06:12 | posts: 11,415 | Location: England

Not really an update, we all knew the situation was dire. If Japan has mishandled the cleanup then shame on them. As stated above, the world will soldier on.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 07:14 | posts: 2,924 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Its really a shame that the planets water is constantly under assault from mankind. Its its not a giant oil spill on one end of Earth, its a nuclear spill on the other.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 11:17 | posts: 4,746 | Location: Not Far North Enough (England)

It might be a lot of radiation, but there's a whole lot more ocean.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 11:37 | posts: 2,748 | Location: Gloucesterestershire

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSparil View Post
Its really a shame that the planets water is constantly under assault from mankind. Its its not a giant oil spill on one end of Earth, its a nuclear spill on the other.
This
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 11:38 | posts: 4,141 | Location: Serbia, NS

We gonna play STALKER - Shadows of Fukushima soon?
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 12:17 | posts: 3,785 | Location: Sweden

Had two atom bombs dropped on them and they're now one of the world's leading in various industries. I think they'll be fine.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 13:57 | posts: 4,358 | Location: Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLEH! View Post
It might be a lot of radiation, but there's a whole lot more ocean.
it will reach US coast so...

luckily, we are on the other side of the planet
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 16:22 | posts: 2,748 | Location: Gloucesterestershire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_ice_Spain View Post
it will reach US coast so...

luckily, we are on the other side of the planet
That's not really the point though is it?
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 20:51 | posts: 4,358 | Location: Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom F View Post
That's not really the point though is it?
It's one of the points . The whole point is how it affects humanity, and we are a part of it.
   
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Default 09-01-2013, 23:52 | posts: 836

With Bikini Atoll the radiation got adsorbed by living organisms because "cesium is part of the same chemical family as the plant nutrient potassium".

http://www.bikiniatoll.com/PopularSciArt.html

So I'd think shoreline plants and fish would be affected. But, if the fish are edible round Japan, I wouldn't worry about it.

http://news.msn.com/us/calls-for-sea...-leak-in-japan

"A leak of 300 tons is about 80,000 gallons, but the Pacific Ocean is pretty large compared to that," said Dr. Arjun Makhijani, president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research. "So there's a big dilution effect."

Honestly, I'd say there's more risk with mercury poisoning for the average person.
   
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Default 09-02-2013, 00:20 | posts: 5,587 | Location: PA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLEH! View Post
It might be a lot of radiation, but there's a whole lot more ocean.
While I agree that optimism is important in these situations, this is not good at all. Of course the ocean is vast, and there is most probably more water than radioactive material spewing into the ocean. The problem here is the effects it has on wildlife and weather, not just the water.

If we just keep telling ourselves, "Meh there is more water than radioactive waste" every time something like this happens, then eventually we will corner ourselves with impure soil, water, and food.

This needs to be a lesson learned, not to be repeated again. Accidents/Natural Disasters happen sure, and we NEED to learn from them.

We need to worry about these things, but not stress over them. This is a problem, this is NOT okay. All over the news you see how fish/birds are dropping dead. If people really think that the the reactor does not have effects elsewhere in the world, they are sadly mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeshush View Post
With Bikini Atoll the radiation got adsorbed by living organisms because "cesium is part of the same chemical family as the plant nutrient potassium".

http://www.bikiniatoll.com/PopularSciArt.html

So I'd think shoreline plants and fish would be affected. But, if the fish are edible round Japan, I wouldn't worry about it.

http://news.msn.com/us/calls-for-sea...-leak-in-japan

"A leak of 300 tons is about 80,000 gallons, but the Pacific Ocean is pretty large compared to that," said Dr. Arjun Makhijani, president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research. "So there's a big dilution effect."

Honestly, I'd say there's more risk with mercury poisoning for the average person.
It does not work that way. This is just an excuse. Mutations don't happen overnight, and the effects of such poisoning can come years down the line in forms of cancer. Just because cesium is in the same family as potassium, it is being absorbed in an abnormal abundance, therefore IT IS NOT SAFE!

These wounds can heal but at a cost, and this can't happen again. We lost enough fish/birds because of this.

Last edited by GhostXL; 09-02-2013 at 00:25.
   
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Veeshush
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Default 09-02-2013, 01:38 | posts: 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostXL View Post
Just because cesium is in the same family as potassium, it is being absorbed in an abnormal abundance, therefore IT IS NOT SAFE!
Right, lets eat lead paint chips because our bodies will mistake it as calcium.

No, I know this, but with the dilution I'd imagine is less concentrated than Bikini Atoll, or hell, Chernobyl. The graphs would make it seem the ocean will glow at night.

It's not good, no, just as the mass amounts of plastic in the ocean. But as there's no possible way of extracting it, well. If I had to pinpoint a cause other than them just simply not being prepared; the plant was built in the 80s and used earlier generation reactors.

http://www.lordkat.com/blog/2061/ato...rnobyl-ii.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

Of course with any ****up there's stuff to learn only after it happens and regret.
   
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IcE
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Default 09-02-2013, 02:58 | posts: 9,051 | Location: Toledo

What's funny is that it was so close to being shut down and decommissioned. The whole incident was some pretty colossal bad luck.
   
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Default 09-02-2013, 04:15 | posts: 1,718 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

when it spawns Godzilla i'll be concerned, but right now i'm suffering from war apathy, environmentalism apathy and political correctness apathy. sorry.
   
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Default 09-02-2013, 05:02 | posts: 5,587 | Location: PA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeshush View Post
Right, lets eat lead paint chips because our bodies will mistake it as calcium.

No, I know this, but with the dilution I'd imagine is less concentrated than Bikini Atoll, or hell, Chernobyl. The graphs would make it seem the ocean will glow at night.

It's not good, no, just as the mass amounts of plastic in the ocean. But as there's no possible way of extracting it, well. If I had to pinpoint a cause other than them just simply not being prepared; the plant was built in the 80s and used earlier generation reactors.

http://www.lordkat.com/blog/2061/ato...rnobyl-ii.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

Of course with any ****up there's stuff to learn only after it happens and regret.
My point is the more we take stuff like this lightly, the more we screw up the planet. "Dilution" just screams excuse to a big problem to make it seem better than what it really is. I just hate hearing crap like that, just to make themselves look good.

Last edited by GhostXL; 09-02-2013 at 05:05.
   
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Veeshush
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Default 09-02-2013, 05:37 | posts: 836

While on the topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_...ioactive_waste

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostXL View Post
My point is the more we take stuff like this lightly, the more we screw up the planet.
But it's not even "us" that are the issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_pollution

When you have **** like "the 'Ndrangheta, an Italian mafia syndicate, was accused of sinking at least 30 ships loaded with toxic waste, much of it radioactive. This has led to widespread investigations into radioactive-waste disposal rackets."

or

"Since the end of World War II, various nations, including the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, the United States, and Germany, have disposed of chemical weapons in the Baltic Sea, raising concerns of environmental contamination"

You realize no amount of activism or public influence really matters when it comes to people looking to dump their **** and do it cheap and easy.
   
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Taint3dBulge
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Default 09-02-2013, 07:33 | posts: 1,068 | Location: South Dakota

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_ice_Spain View Post
It's one of the points . The whole point is how it affects humanity, and we are a part of it.
Yes this is it. It might not be a big deal "now" but how about for our kids, and ours kids kids. This **** has a half life of 30 years. By the looks of it we wont see any kind of true "clean up" for probably 10 years. Its just to toxic and to much for our technological know how to clean up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLEH! View Post
It might be a lot of radiation, but there's a whole lot more ocean.
https://www.google.com/#q=fish+die+off+pacific+ocean

Ya its been over 2 years and its getting worse by the day. How long before we start seeing the effects. Oh wait.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CronoGraal View Post
Had two atom bombs dropped on them and they're now one of the world's leading in various industries. I think they'll be fine.
Ya and one rod outa the 1000's that they have, per spent pool pond, are 14,000 times more radioactive then the bombs dropped. well according to the nuclear scientist's anyways. Its just stuff that us normal everyday people that think they know alittle of atomic energy, really dont know and need to find out the real information. I know iv learned so much in the past few years about this **** that when i talk about it people think im just making **** up. Sure something's you read on the web arn't true. It's when you hear/read things from actual scientists, and ther publications. Things become more coherent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeshush View Post
While on the topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_...ioactive_waste



But it's not even "us" that are the issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_pollution

When you have **** like "the 'Ndrangheta, an Italian mafia syndicate, was accused of sinking at least 30 ships loaded with toxic waste, much of it radioactive. This has led to widespread investigations into radioactive-waste disposal rackets."

or

"Since the end of World War II, various nations, including the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, the United States, and Germany, have disposed of chemical weapons in the Baltic Sea, raising concerns of environmental contamination"

You realize no amount of activism or public influence really matters when it comes to people looking to dump their **** and do it cheap and easy.
Think of those 30 ships as afew days of natural release from fukushima.

I dont want to sound like an alarmist or try to make people panic. Im just putting out the information. Im concerned about my future kids.. How f@cked would it be to never be able to swim in the ocean. It could get to that point. I hope and pray that they "tepco" and the rest of the world forces are able to put a stop to the pollution of our precious water and the species that live in it. Its just more sad then anything. We only live once and i want my kids to experience a swim int he ocean without the harmful effects of cancer. Iv seen a loved one die from it once. Never again do i want to see that!

Last edited by Taint3dBulge; 09-02-2013 at 07:43.
   
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Taint3dBulge
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Default 09-02-2013, 07:57 | posts: 1,068 | Location: South Dakota

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Lol, sucks for Japan, but it's their own fault for not taking the proper measures and just expecting TEPCO to deal with it themselves. And don't start that nonsense again about how it's a world issue and that everyone is doomed. What happened after Chernobyl? World kept going as normal. What happened after over 2,000 nuclear tests? World kept going as normal.

That's not to say that this isn't important to deal with, but the construction of a proper holding tank facility instead of this hobbled nonsense should have been done ages ago or at least been started.
I keep reading this over and over. Thinking to myself. Chernobyl. By itself was bad bad bad.. yes it was the worst explosion and worst "initial" release of radioactive plums. However... Chernobyl is pretty much buried. Not really too threatening after the initial explosion. While Fuku will be threatening for many years to come. Its all because of the ground water and the water drainage from the mountains above. This is not as threatening atmospherically per say. But the daily release into the ocean is far more threatening in the long term.

2,000 nuclear tests are not nearly as bad as one spent fuel rod burning. which would equal 14,000 Hiroshima bombs. Well thats what iv herd anyways.

Its all just unknowns. I really dont think even the scientists really know.
   
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IcE
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Default 09-02-2013, 13:31 | posts: 9,051 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint3dBulge View Post
I keep reading this over and over. Thinking to myself. Chernobyl. By itself was bad bad bad.. yes it was the worst explosion and worst "initial" release of radioactive plums. However... Chernobyl is pretty much buried. Not really too threatening after the initial explosion. While Fuku will be threatening for many years to come. Its all because of the ground water and the water drainage from the mountains above. This is not as threatening atmospherically per say. But the daily release into the ocean is far more threatening in the long term.

2,000 nuclear tests are not nearly as bad as one spent fuel rod burning. which would equal 14,000 Hiroshima bombs. Well thats what iv herd anyways.

Its all just unknowns. I really dont think even the scientists really know.
Chernobyl is still incredibly threatening, actually. The concrete coffin that was built to cover it is nearing collapse from time and disrepair. So until they finish that steel dome that they should have started building 10 years ago, it's still a real threat. A collapse would send an absurd amount of radioactive dust into the air and reunite the still highly radioactive core with the air.

Also, even if we were legitimately trying to ruin the Earth with radioactivity it would be damn near impossible. 71% of the Earth is covered by oceans. I'm sure if you did the math to find out how much radioactive drainage would be needed to hit the water to be a meaningful, harming percentage, it would be decades worth.
   
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DSparil
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Default 09-02-2013, 18:01 | posts: 2,924 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL

All of these incidents and spills have long term consequences. This is a bit off topic, but if anyone thinks the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico isn't still affecting ecosystems in the gulf and Atlantic Oceans, they are kidding themselves or are ignorant to the science involved. The same goes for nuclear waste, although a different animal entirely. I don't know about Tainted's math on the Hiroshima bombs thing, but he is right when he argues the long term effects.
   
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Veeshush
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Default 09-02-2013, 22:09 | posts: 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint3dBulge View Post
Think of those 30 ships as afew days of natural release from fukushima.
And those are only the ones we know about. I can't imagine the ones we don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint3dBulge View Post
I dont want to sound like an alarmist or try to make people panic. Im just putting out the information. Im concerned about my future kids.. How f@cked would it be to never be able to swim in the ocean.!
No, I do agree that water ecosystems and the like are just incredibly ****ed these days. Rivers and ocean near big cities are just so completely ****ed. And then the lakes everywhere are affected by invasive species, hell zebra mussels are in practically every lake in the US. Chemical dumping. All of it is a reality, and most of it has happened in the last few hundred years as population and industrial growth happened.

But, I don't also want to see people protesting things like nuclear power. "432 operable civil nuclear power nuclear reactors around the world" compared to the ones that have failed.

http://world-nuclear.org/Nuclear-Bas...lear-reactors/

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Also, even if we were legitimately trying to ruin the Earth with radioactivity it would be damn near impossible.
While I do agree it'd take a hell of a lot to **** the planet up and that probably something more space related would be the only thing to make our planet a dead planet, I'd also say we do have the ability to make the world a place pretty ****ty to live on in our lifetimes.
   
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airbud7
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Default 09-03-2013, 00:13 | posts: 2,883 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Aging nukes; What replaces them?...Not sure if this fits here...But...>http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...replaces-them/


I live next to >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_...nerating_Plant

I have a lot of buddy's that make good money there!...But plant vogtle is also adding on 2 new reactors...$$$....economy looks good around the site...

"In 2009, the NRC renewed the licenses for both units for an additional 20 years, to the 2040s.[5] Groundwork for two additional AP1000 reactors is underway"

Last edited by airbud7; 09-03-2013 at 01:24.
   
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Taint3dBulge
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Default 09-05-2013, 02:37 | posts: 1,068 | Location: South Dakota

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSparil View Post
All of these incidents and spills have long term consequences. This is a bit off topic, but if anyone thinks the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico isn't still affecting ecosystems in the gulf and Atlantic Oceans, they are kidding themselves or are ignorant to the science involved. The same goes for nuclear waste, although a different animal entirely. I don't know about Tainted's math on the Hiroshima bombs thing, but he is right when he argues the long term effects.
Well, in the video it said scientists say one rod, if exploded, would be release 14,000 times more radioactivity then the Hiroshima bomb. Maybe my math is wrong, but wouldnt that also be equal to 14,000 bombs dropped.. Ofcourse that many bombs exploding in one place would have less of an effect as to 14,000 bombs exploding all over.. donno. Anyways there was a 6.5 eq near japan just yesterday 9-3.. Thats the thing that could **** everything up. If all those containers would rupture and all those rods start burning in the above storage pools....... well you get the picture. Of course thats worst case scenario. I guess i just always think of the worst thing that could happen.
   
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