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Is this true?
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trocio2
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Cool Is this true? - 07-17-2013, 01:25 | posts: 377

I installed Windows 8.1 Preview. The basic display driver is wddm 1.3!

   
 
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Default 07-17-2013, 01:36 | posts: 1,869

Quote:
Originally Posted by trocio2 View Post
I installed Windows 8.1 Preview. The basic display driver is wddm 1.3!
EDITED

Yep, it's the same with Window 8 Pro. (WDDM 1.2)
Microsoft made their basic display adapter support Wddm 1.2 for all graphic cards. But i'm not sure if the basic display adapter can actually use any of those features unless they are all emulated using your CPU to process the information.

Actually, I think running the Basic Display adapter allows HD 4000 and Below GPU's to play Dx11 games like Crysis 3. I tested it on my HD 4350 and found the performance to be terrible. So you may need a super computer to achieve quality performance.

Last edited by dellon132; 07-17-2013 at 01:59.
   
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trocio2
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Default 07-17-2013, 01:40 | posts: 377

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellon132 View Post
Yep, it's the same with Window 8 Pro. (WDDM 1.2)
Microsoft made their basic adapter display Wddm 1.3 for all graphic cards. But i'm not sure if the basic display adapter can actually use any of those features unless they are all emulated using your to process the information. Actually I think running the Basic Display adapter allows HD 4000 and Below GPU's to play Dx11 games like Crysis 3. The problem with that is the game will run extremely slow if you don't have a super computer.
Hmm... thank you for replying.
   
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Default 07-17-2013, 01:54 | posts: 16,427 | Location: US East Coast

Windows8.1 runs WDDM1.3....so yes, it's true.

Windows is simply showing the "Windows Display Driver Model" version


   
 
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kevsamiga1974
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Default 07-18-2013, 03:03 | posts: 760 | Location: England

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellon132 View Post
Actually, I think running the Basic Display adapter allows HD 4000 and Below GPU's to play Dx11 games like Crysis 3. I tested it on my HD 4350 and found the performance to be terrible. So you may need a super computer to achieve quality performance.
Not quite...for WDDM 1.3 a lowly 8800GT will suffice from 2007.

Nevertheless Crysis 3 is always going to be terrible at anything other than postage stamp resolutions on a 4350 display driver or not, what else did you expect ?. Even the big hitter cards struggle with it.

Clearly, there were never any plans to update the Catalyst legacy driver (for DX10.1 flavours) to any point above the WDDM 1.0/1.1 level support already provided, despite at least one of the drivers being a Windows 8 "release".

Which might go a long way to explaining why Win7 drivers used on 8 are slower and cranky in any case.

The fact is that the actual cards that are from a newer time period (2008) than the one from the other camp given above (2007) simply don't have the appropriate support implemented, as they stopped caring about 5 year old cards anyway, way before the driver support actually stopped.

And the final joke to this is...that the M$ basic display driver must actually use it in some sense, or it wouldn't qualify as such.

Last edited by kevsamiga1974; 07-18-2013 at 03:23.
   
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dellon132
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Default 07-18-2013, 10:50 | posts: 1,869

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
Not quite...for WDDM 1.3 a lowly 8800GT will suffice from 2007.

Nevertheless Crysis 3 is always going to be terrible at anything other than postage stamp resolutions on a 4350 display driver or not, what else did you expect ?. Even the big hitter cards struggle with it.

Clearly, there were never any plans to update the Catalyst legacy driver (for DX10.1 flavours) to any point above the WDDM 1.0/1.1 level support already provided, despite at least one of the drivers being a Windows 8 "release".

Which might go a long way to explaining why Win7 drivers used on 8 are slower and cranky in any case.

The fact is that the actual cards that are from a newer time period (2008) than the one from the other camp given above (2007) simply don't have the appropriate support implemented, as they stopped caring about 5 year old cards anyway, way before the driver support actually stopped.

And the final joke to this is...that the M$ basic display driver must actually use it in some sense, or it wouldn't qualify as such.
Hmm, when I mentioned Crysis 3 and the HD 4350, I was not implying it should work smoothly with my HD 4350. The HD 4350 was just an example of a card with Directx 10 features playing a directx 11 game using the basic display driver. When I said performance was terrible and you need a super computer achieve quality performance I was considering a processor much powerful than a e7500 at 4 GHz because the basic display adapter does not actually use your Graphic Card, it only uses it to put an image on Screen without using any of your Graphic Card supported Features.

Other Thoughts
I guess an HD 5570 running games such as Just Cause 2 and Saints Row the Third at the performing level of a slideshow would be a better example as the card is capable of playing both games with decent Fps by normal means.
   
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Default 07-18-2013, 11:22 | posts: 24,012 | Location: NZ

Oh look it's W8 with WDM 1.3. and DX11.2.....

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
   
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k1net1cs
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Default 07-18-2013, 14:30 | posts: 3,711

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
Oh look it's W8 with WDM 1.3. and DX11.2.....

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
Oh look it's Pill not getting the context!

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn*




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Default 07-19-2013, 06:08 | posts: 1,417 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1net1cs View Post
Oh look it's Pill not getting the context!

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
I actually got meaning of it and agree with Pill. M$ should add same support for W7 which is desktop PC OS or crawl to it's grave and die.
Because I do not want to use my PC with OS using tablet interface.
   
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k1net1cs
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Default 07-19-2013, 10:10 | posts: 3,711

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox2232 View Post
I actually got meaning of it and agree with Pill. M$ should add same support for W7 which is desktop PC OS or crawl to it's grave and die.
Because I do not want to use my PC with OS using tablet interface.
The point. You're missing it. Twice. Pill's and mine.




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Default 07-19-2013, 13:32 | posts: 377

The point is about legacy support, dudes. AMD can make at least a wddm 1.2 driver for old cards, because it's a driver implementation and you don't need hardware dx11 to have some of the new features. Look at the picture I posted, it's the basic, generic display driver.
   
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Default 07-19-2013, 15:07 | posts: 760 | Location: England

It's akin to this...

I think it's practically impossible at this stage to expect any more driver improvements along Windows 8 lines for the legacy camp, it has already been said there would only ever be one driver available for Windows 8.

And basically there is so they are sticking to the guns, though in essence all just a tacked on .inf, for a Win 7 driver as an afterthought.

No one is enforcing people to use Windows 8 however....

I'm still not, so I have not much reason to complain (I'll be using 7 until the wheels fall off), and have found relative stability, comfort and solace in drivers from a much earlier timeframe of 10.9a-11.4 albeit modified by myself.

For those Windows 8 moments (although there hasn't been many), the machines just get retro fitted with 8800GT's, which are a smoother experience under Windows 8 despite an older design, where the video stuff then works without issues along with 4K UltraHD unlike 4870x2+Win8.
   
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Fox2232
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Default 07-19-2013, 15:41 | posts: 1,417 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1net1cs View Post
The point. You're missing it. Twice. Pill's and mine.
If it was not Pill's point then it's mine and it's superior point. And good to laugh at too.
Imagining M$ trying again to enforce new OS by exclusive feature level of DX on it.
As for new WDDM, it may very well be new reason for stutter in games.
   
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Default 07-19-2013, 15:54 | posts: 24,012 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox2232 View Post
If it was not Pill's point then it's mine and it's superior point. And good to laugh at too.
Imagining M$ trying again to enforce new OS by exclusive feature level of DX on it.
^Yeah pretty much this....it's slightly amusuing the way some people go gaga over the feature levels in W8.1....the MS propaganda machine is hard at work....lol.

W7 uses DX11.1....anyone know wonder how many games support DX11.1?

Last edited by Pill Monster; 07-19-2013 at 16:15.
   
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kevsamiga1974
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Default 07-20-2013, 02:06 | posts: 760 | Location: England



Windows 7 for life...
   
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Default 07-20-2013, 04:31 | posts: 5,637 | Location: PA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post


Windows 7 for life...
Windows 8 is far superior to windows 7 when it comes to speed and SSD functionality, even 2D Image Quality.

Use a free program to get the start bar back fully functional, or better yet Start8 and get a fully functional Win7 Superbar and avoid Metro completely.

I use Start8, but there are free programs that do similar. I still don't think 5 dollars is a bad deal personally. Also just for the record, I've been using Start8 Since Windows 8 was released with absolutely ZERO issues at all ever with any functionality regarding the program or windows. All updates work fine, even windows 8.1 preview works with start 8.

Should we "HAVE" to use a 3rd party tool? No. But I am not going to miss out on everything else Windows 8 has to offer besides the crap Metro UI, which is a lot. It's pretty apparent now, that Microsoft is ignoring all the complaints about the start bar, and wont be implementing it themselves, so we gotta act for ourselves.

Funny comic though, like it a lot!

Last edited by GhostXL; 07-20-2013 at 04:36.
   
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warlord
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Default 07-20-2013, 04:38 | posts: 497

i could never return to windows 7 again from windows 8.1

it's like comparing vista to windows XP...it's an enormous disgrace..!!

as regarding the topic software doesn't necessarily mean what is truly utilized by the hardware itself.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 07-20-2013, 05:16 | posts: 24,012 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostXL View Post
Windows 8 is far superior to windows 7 when it comes to speed and SSD functionality, even 2D Image Quality.
Far superior? lol please...enough hyperbole.... It may boot up and shut down a few seconds faster but there is no "superior SSD functionality", that is in your head.

SSD's and HDD's speed depends on hardware, not the OS.

In other regular day to day tasks there is very little between 7 and 8, most users would need a benchmark app to see any change.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 07-20-2013 at 05:27.
   
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Default 07-20-2013, 05:40 | posts: 1,293 | Location: Charleroi, PA

Since this appears to be a Windows 8 thread now, guess I'll give my feedback :p

I don't mind Modern UI, when it works nicely with my setup. It does what I need it to do, and does it in the same manner my Start Menu in 7 did it (it has app shortcuts, I click them, they run). Even looks nicer I might add.

I really don't see the big deal in Modern UI to cause people to hate it before they even try it, or even make the biggest deal over, but maybe people just complain about things for fun? Who knows...

The main thing that really baffles me is how people totally disregard and avoid Windows 8 just because of the Modern UI. But get this; there's more to Windows 8 than just Modern UI The under-the-hood kernel tweaks, performance gains, and additional security and features I think are pretty decent, and I really don't know why people give all that up over some petty dislike for some graphical element that they (in most cases I've seen) haven't even made an attempt to like.

Want to see a real reason to hate Modern UI? Try this:



Eyefinity; and a good chunk of my App List is hidden under Bezel due to Bezel Compensation. Bugs me a bit, and I'm kind of surprised there's no built-in bezel compensation thing for that. Am I going to go downgrade my OS though in blind fury? Na. I know the icons hidden under the bezel, and if I for whatever reason forget, I just hover over them and get a name. Problem solved (more like avoided anyway, but meh) :p

TLDR: I think most people just hate Windows 8 to jump on some silly bandwagon...

Last edited by Espionage724; 07-20-2013 at 05:42.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 07-20-2013, 05:50 | posts: 24,012 | Location: NZ

I think people get upset about the GUI because they have no choice but to deal with it every day, and it's right there in your face on the desktop....the first thing thing you see when powering on.

If it was another issue that could be hidden somewhere else or only popped up every now and then maybe users would be more tolerant.


That's my theory at least.....
   
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Espionage724
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Default 07-20-2013, 06:01 | posts: 1,293 | Location: Charleroi, PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
I think people get upset about the GUI because they have no choice but to deal with it every day, and it's right there in your face on the desktop....the first thing thing you see when powering on.

If it was another issue that could be hidden somewhere else or only popped up every now and then maybe users would be more tolerant.


That's my theory at least.....
Hmm, that kind of makes sense I guess, but I got used to just clicking my Desktop icon shortly after boot and proceeding on.

8.1 has options for booting straight to Desktop though which should solve that.
   
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Fox2232
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Default 07-20-2013, 06:25 | posts: 1,417 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

I do not wonder about superior 2D image quality, because I am 100% sure it displays images exactly same way as w95 did.
I really wonder about that performance boost of W8 over W7. Since W7 got good bump over Vista and it could not be missed.

That new WDDM may be reason for some improvements, but for a lot of issues too. Therefore I wonder about that only.
But not to the point I would install it for testing purposes. I would rather install linux and deal with all issues it brings.
   
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kevsamiga1974
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Default 07-20-2013, 16:29 | posts: 760 | Location: England

Things like having to put your hand in your pocket to fund basic functionality such as DVD movie playback that is included as standard in Windows 7 is yet another reason enough for me not to use 8 over 7, not just the inherant fugly UI.

Ropey drivers available for my legacy cards is yet another...

Having said that, there is no problem with a tablet OS, that is if your actually using a tablet. I'm not.

For the desktop, it's simply awkward, ill-conceived, and I don't think any sensible business would touch it with a bargepole. The vast majority of the world and his brother are still using the tried and true method of keyboard and mouse combination

It just doesn't sit right on a desktop in multiple ways for me, and that's why I have canned it.

I know of plenty more people that have also done the same regarding it.

There are even those who have just skipped it altogether without even bothering to try it based on the UI alone.

The only point of Windows 8's existence is to kill the I Pad at the expense of desktop users.

I know of no-one that has discarded Windows 7 or XP once put to use, and I guarantee based on Windows 8 being such a turkey, that the start menu will be back in force in Windows 9 no doubt....

Last edited by kevsamiga1974; 07-20-2013 at 16:35.
   
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Espionage724
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Default 07-20-2013, 16:54 | posts: 1,293 | Location: Charleroi, PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
Things like having to put your hand in your pocket to fund basic functionality such as DVD movie playback that is included as standard in Windows 7 is yet another reason enough for me not to use 8 over 7, not just the inherant fugly UI.
You don't have to pay to use VLC media player, nor do you have to pay if you get the software for free (my motherboard came with some DVD playback software).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
Having said that, there is no problem with a tablet OS, that is if your actually using a tablet. I'm not.
Yea, because it's clearly listed that Windows 8 requires a tablet to use... My laptop and desktop motherboard must have some fake Windows 8 certification since they're not tablets. This is one of the more silly reasons against Windows 8 I keep hearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
For the desktop, it's simply awkward, ill-conceived, and I don't think any sensible business would touch it with a bargepole. The vast majority of the world and his brother are still using the tried and true method of keyboard and mouse combination
I'm using a mouse and keyboard as well. I've had no additional difficulty with pointing my mouse at app shortcuts and clicking them though with Modern UI. If anything, it's way easier for me (there's been plenty of times I'd go to try to click something on Win7's start menu just to have my cursor go off of it and close it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
There are even those who have just skipped it altogether without even bothering to try it based on the UI alone.
Hating something without trying it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevsamiga1974 View Post
I know of no-one that has discarded Windows 7 or XP once utilised, and I guarantee based on the poor market share of 8, that the start menu will be back in force in Windows 9.
I easily discarded Windows XP and 7 on my HTPC once I found out Linux was a better choice :p

I'm just really failing to see what possible reasons people have to keep defending the old-school Start Menu, in-comparison to Modern UI. Both store App shortcuts. both let you move your mouse and click said shortcuts to launch apps. Both essentially work the same way.

This is my icon layout on Modern UI:


Along with my rather unorganized 8.1 App List:


I find this far easier to use than Window 7's Start Menu (when bezels don't get in the way, and this isn't a valid excuse for majority of people lol).

Last edited by Espionage724; 07-20-2013 at 16:57.
   
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  (#25)
trocio2
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Default 07-20-2013, 18:03 | posts: 377

@Espionage: you know how to use Windows 8. Nice.
   
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