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B-Day coming, what parts should come too?
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the1nfection
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Default B-Day coming, what parts should come too? - 04-24-2013, 21:15 | posts: 24 | Location: Daytona Beach, FL

I have a cpu (duh), but its rather old. You can see all of my specs on the side, but ill fill you guys in just incase.

AMD Opteron 165 dual core with AC64 Freezer Heatsink
LP NF4 Series, with NVIDIA NForce4 chipset
Mushkin Blackline DDR 2x1GB PC3200
ATI Radeon HD 3850
2 WesternDigital 250 GB IDE HDD
1 WesternDigital 80 GB SATA3 HDD
FSB Group 350W PSU
2 Random fans
A generic CPU Case
Windows 7 Ultimate
And a Magnavox 16" monitor


I've overclocked it to 2.39 GHz, so i dont want to upgrade the processor unless i can get either stock over 2.4, or overclock something up to like 2.8~

Knowing what i have in my CPU, what would you guys recommend i upgrade? is there anything in specific that i really need to improve? i know i have low RAM, and want to grab something better there, but idk where to even begin.

Im not paying for it myself, so im not going to be asking for a 1000$ new system kinda thing, just a few parts to bump my system up, with a 250$ MAX price tag. Any advice would be great, but PLZ be more specific than just saying "get a better processor" im looking for details of what to get, not generalities. Thanks everyone for all the help, and i hope i can get this thing running better soon!
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
Processor: 3770K@4.8GHz delid
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-25-2013, 13:03 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

Hmm I'm not even sure.. you're better off SAVING money than spending it on upgrading parts of your current PC.

Later on you'll do the full upgrade, just right now it seems useless to spend money on an aging system. It won't go anywhere. Trust me I did the same and you're better off saving up and then later eventually doing the full upgrade. It's a wait but it's worth it.
   
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Darkest
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Videocard: HD7950
Processor: i5 3570k
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77 D3H
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaws 8gb 1600
Soundcard: Aune T1 + HD650/DT990 Pro
PSU: OCZ ZS 550w
Default 04-25-2013, 13:24 | posts: 7,823

I have to agree with Deathchild, it's simply not worth investing in such an ageing system. I'd save at least $450-550 (The more the better) and build fresh, keep your operating system and SATA drives. You should be able to get a respectable build out of that.
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
Processor: 3770K@4.8GHz delid
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-25-2013, 13:35 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

Yeah exactly.
   
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StewieTech
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PSU: OCZ ZT 550W
Default 04-25-2013, 14:33 | posts: 1,347 | Location: Portugal

Yeah buddy, save your windows license and perhaps your monitor and case, the rest is far too old. With 500 bucks we can help you squeeze a nice build for you.
   
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Anarion
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Default 04-25-2013, 14:47 | posts: 11,010 | Location: Finland

That system is pretty much not upgradeable. Like the others just said, keep saving - that's what I would do.

Though if you must upgrade, AMD A10 5800K+mobo+8GB RAM will cost around 250 together. Judging by 3DMark Vantage scores, the APU GPU should be faster than HD 3850. It goes without saying that the CPU will annihilate the one you have. You would probably need to buy IDE to SATA converters if you make the change. If you're PSU is really old, it might give trouble when it comes to cables.

Last edited by Anarion; 04-25-2013 at 15:09.
   
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Deathchild
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Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-25-2013, 15:30 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

So in conclusion, don't upgrade and save up.
   
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Anarion
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PSU: Corsair AX760
Default 04-25-2013, 18:41 | posts: 11,010 | Location: Finland

Though he has not really said what he does with his computer. Building system around APU could work really nicely for him, especially with that monitor. Still, $250 wouldn't really be enough since that PSU is likely about to blow and he has IDE HDD's (and likely IDE optical drive). So yeah, save. $100 more would help a lot.
   
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the1nfection
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Default 04-25-2013, 20:27 | posts: 24 | Location: Daytona Beach, FL

okay guys, i guess i see what your saying... however...

1) im really looking to up my PSU, because i love overclocking, and that allows my cpu to run pretty damned well. Im at 2.39 GHz on my opteron, and its pretty old, as you all already know. It runs like a champ, posting up 15.5 Sec on SuperPi 512K test. Thats from a 24 second at stock. I love this cpu, and generally want to upgrade it as opposed to completly replacing it (mostly becuase im unemployed right now, and IT ISNT MY MONEY, i dont have the option of just taking cash to hang on to, so until i finish the semester in 9 days, then find a job, i dont have any way to add on to the $$$)

2) im using the CPU for gaming. i play things like LoL, DoTA2, Blackops 1 +2, mirrors edge, Civ 4+5, and some emulated games. They run decently, but not amazingly.

3) im really quite attached to the system. Its been with me for 2 1/2 years now, and has survived:

homeless living
a rainstorm
4 moves
2 dogs
a major overheat (75* C, which is well above what opterons can take, 57*C)
and several instances of juice/soup/soy sauce being spilled inside it.

it really is a beast of a CPU, and the fact that it has survived so much makes me want to keep it all the more. I may just suck it up and buy a SECOND cpu, but for now im looking for anything i can do to improve this one to run better. So now that you know that... What parts should i buy?


Anyone know of any good heatsinks for overclocking that would fit over a 939 socket? should i upgrade to water cooled or something? how much would that cost to do?

and lastly... i really do need a better PSU. Which ones would be best? what should i be looking for, knowing what my specs are? should i go for a higher overall wattage, or will i not even need to worry about that on my system? i havent had any problems with power so far, but it'll be the biggest restricting factor when i get the cooling to really push this thing.

Also... my brother in law recomended i grab up a CPU/GPU combo processor with a motherboard, he suggested a few. Not sure if they are worth the money... opinions?

thanks guys, and like always, i look forward to your replies!
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
Processor: 3770K@4.8GHz delid
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-25-2013, 21:02 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

As Anarion suggested.. and the best suggestion so far.., you'll be best off with an AMD A10-5800K APU. Pretty good CPU + contains the GPU AMD Radeon 7660D which is integrated, you can play any modern day game with that, albeit not with the highest available settings but.. it's more than enough.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113280 it's 129$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1 79$

+RAM .. either 8GB or 4GB, it really doesn't matter that much, 4GB is totally fine too nowadays.. and is enough.

Anyways, here's a 4GB kit which will make the perfect 250$ for you. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231474

As I've heard.. AMD APUs benefit more (A10-5800K especially) from higher speed ram. This little setup would kill anything else you have right now. +it would be quite a formidable upgrade. I for one would be happy for you.

That PSU... I'm not sure.. but I think it will be enough, not sure though.. with something 400w+ you'd be on the safe side.

Here's a little page on how the 7660D does:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...k-radeon-7660d


I took the time to calculate an estimated drawn power during load. Not sure if the HD6570 should be there though (it's more or less likely the same as HD7660D). Or if the 7660D is already accounted for in the A10-5800K CPU listed there. You can do the same here. http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
Quote:
System Type: 1 physical CPU
Motherboard: Regular - Desktop
CPU Socket: Socket FM2
CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3800 MHz Trinity
CPU Utilization (TDP): 90% TDP

RAM: 2 Sticks DDR3 SDRAM
Video Card 1: AMD Radeon HD 6570


ATTENTION: FOR PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY


Regular SATA: 1 HDD

DVD/CDRW Combo Drive: 1 Drive

USB: 1 Device

Fans
Regular: 1 Fan 80mm; 1 Fan 120mm;

Keyboard and mouse: Yes

System Load: 90 %



Minimum PSU Wattage: 207 Watts
Recommended Wattage: 257 Watts
As you can see it consumes about 250W total. So that 350W Fortron should still do.

Last edited by Deathchild; 04-25-2013 at 23:06.
   
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Darkest
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Videocard: HD7950
Processor: i5 3570k
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77 D3H
Memory: G-Skill Ripjaws 8gb 1600
Soundcard: Aune T1 + HD650/DT990 Pro
PSU: OCZ ZS 550w
Default 04-26-2013, 00:12 | posts: 7,823

For a 5800k setup get the fastest RAM you can within budget. I built one a few months back and honestly, if you're gaming at 720p you'll be able to play most modern games at low to medium without too much hassle. There's not a lot of future-proofing in it however. I still say saving is the best option.
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
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Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-26-2013, 00:24 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

Yeah, agreed. But if he's desperate then I guess that'll do.. Anyways, it'll be quite a formidable upgrade from his current setup.

But tell us what are your thoughts?

(Hey Darkie man I'm gonna need some help with OCing this 3570k, getting 4.2 @ 1.230v but at 4.4/4.5 it locks up even @ 1.25v. I'm assuming it's to do with something else.. not particularly vcore? As 1.25v should be enough for 4.4 or 4.5 at least)

Last edited by Deathchild; 04-26-2013 at 00:28.
   
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the1nfection
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Default 04-26-2013, 08:04 | posts: 24 | Location: Daytona Beach, FL

Well you've definatly got me interested to say the least. im going to look around at the parts and a few reveiws, and see what people are saying, but my impressions right now are fairly good, at least from what i've already seen/heard. If my PSU will suffice then im happy, its held well so far, if it can keep doing so then ill stick with the best CPU mindset ever. "If it aint broke, dont fix it"

I have access to a set of 2 mushkin blue RAM sticks, but they are only 512 MB. i would be giving up 1 GB of total RAM for the much improved timings over my Blacklines, meaning i would still have to buy RAM. That doesn't so much worry me, but if possible i want to keep my Blacklines and add another 2 sticks to them (adding the blues wouldn't give me any worthwhile bumps however, as i would be held back by the slower blacklines. If i removed the blacklines and added the blues + another new set of blues i could use them to their fullest. Would that be the kind of RAM speeds you guys suggest?)

I love the idea of CPU/GPU combo processors, but im curious... can i use my 3750 on top of the already integrated GPU to boost my graphics even further? Ive never used a Combo processor before, so its new ground to me.

Im also interested in an SSD if that possible. Not sure if it would be a good idea to look for one or not, what do you guys think? my SATA HDD is only SATA 3, ive been told that upgrading it would be a massive improvement for me.

The last thing im worried about is overclocking one of those... is it safe? is it even possible? should i invest in something better than the stock HS if i want to overclock it?

Oh, and just incase... How would one of the APU's run on a x64 system? should i be looking for an x32 OS, because all of my OS disks are x64... that would be a problem if they dont go so well with the 64 bit.

Thanks for the answers guys, ill post again when ive read a little more about the APU and the RAM.
   
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Pill Monster
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PSU: AcBel M8 750
Default 04-26-2013, 11:08 | posts: 24,260 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by the1nfection View Post
I have access to a set of 2 mushkin blue RAM sticks, but they are only 512 MB. i would be giving up 1 GB of total RAM for the much improved timings over my Blacklines, meaning i would still have to buy RAM. That doesn't so much worry me, but if possible i want to keep my Blacklines and add another 2 sticks to them (adding the blues wouldn't give me any worthwhile bumps however, as i would be held back by the slower blacklines. If i removed the blacklines and added the blues + another new set of blues i could use them to their fullest. Would that be the kind of RAM speeds you guys suggest?)
Your Blackline ram is DDR and won't work in a new motherboard. With an APU I suggest the fastest ram you can afford...1866 or better.

Quote:
I love the idea of CPU/GPU combo processors, but im curious... can i use my 3750 on top of the already integrated GPU to boost my graphics even further?
No, both GPU's must be from the same generation for Hybrid CFX to work.


Quote:
Im also interested in an SSD if that possible. Not sure if it would be a good idea to look for one or not, what do you guys think? my SATA HDD is only SATA 3, ive been told that upgrading it would be a massive improvement for me.
Well I wouldn't say massive; boot times and opening/closing applications will be faster, also some games will benefit from an SSD but if you're on a tight budget a HDD will be sufficient.

Quote:
The last thing im worried about is overclocking one of those... is it safe? is it even possible? should i invest in something better than the stock HS if i want to overclock it?
Yes it's safe as long as a little common sense is applied, and yes an aftermarket cooler is a must when overclocking the CPU.

Quote:
Oh, and just incase... How would one of the APU's run on a x64 system? should i be looking for an x32 OS, because all of my OS disks are x64... that would be a problem if they dont go so well with the 64 bit.
Go with x64.
   
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Anarion
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PSU: Corsair AX760
Default 04-26-2013, 11:50 | posts: 11,010 | Location: Finland

the1nfection, your rig is ancient. You just have to totally forget about keeping stuff from it. You can't improve it in any reasonable way that would make it faster. I also agree with everything Pill said above. Also keep in mind that SSD doesn't make your games run faster, it will only only help when IO activity is heavy (in other words, they will load faster).

IDE to SATA converters go for ~$10 on Ebay.

Last edited by Anarion; 04-26-2013 at 15:31.
   
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boom12a1
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Default 04-26-2013, 15:20 | posts: 36 | Location: 46.00418N 64.55275W

Do not go with an SSD if you are on a budget, from your rig you will only be able to use your 80Gb hard drive, the other 2 250Mb are IDE and you most likely will not be able to use them.

Get another HDD like Pill Monster suggested.
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
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Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-26-2013, 16:22 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

He doesn't have money for that.

It's only the 3 parts that he has money for.
   
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Darkest
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Videocard: HD7950
Processor: i5 3570k
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Memory: G-Skill Ripjaws 8gb 1600
Soundcard: Aune T1 + HD650/DT990 Pro
PSU: OCZ ZS 550w
Default 04-26-2013, 16:29 | posts: 7,823

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathchild View Post
(Hey Darkie man I'm gonna need some help with OCing this 3570k, getting 4.2 @ 1.230v but at 4.4/4.5 it locks up even @ 1.25v. I'm assuming it's to do with something else.. not particularly vcore? As 1.25v should be enough for 4.4 or 4.5 at least)
What HSF are you using right now, do you have your Dark Knight yet? Honestly, I've heard that there was a batch of newer Ivy chips that simply don't OC as well. That said, 1.25 might be a little low for 4.4/4.5. If you're aiming for 4.4-4.5 you might have to push to 1.3-1.35, but I'd not even attempt it without a good enough cooler.
   
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the1nfection
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Default 04-26-2013, 18:39 | posts: 24 | Location: Daytona Beach, FL

first off... massive shoutout to Pill Monster! you answered pretty much every question very concisely. Thanks for that man, i appreciate it!

I guess the only thngs i can really keep are the PSU, 1 SATA drive, and my case, huh? oh well, if it has to be that way, it has to be that way.

To clarify... I was asking about the SSD for my old system. If possible i want to keep my old system running at least, or have the parts avaliable so i can re-assemble it on a later date. Dont care if that may be 5 years from now, i simply want it for the sentimental value, we've had some amazing times together.

I got it OC'd to 2.49 GHz, on 1.35 V, with 5/6 RAM/FSB ratio. my RAM can OC up to 250 MHZ from the stock 200 MHz, which is why i love it (gives me ALOT of room to try **** out and learn to OC, this really is the ideal rig for someone trying to go hardcore in CPU, but still learning the ropes). It'll be sad to see that wonderfull RAM sit and collect dust

Anyway, is that a decent clock on an Opteron 165? i seem to run pretty well, and have even hit 14.750 Sec on Super Pi 512K test. Not sure how good or bad that is compaired to others, but it came up from 23 Sec stock. what do you guys think of that? (i had it up to 2.57 GHz last night, but my HS couldn't take it, so i clocked it down a little to protect it.)


Ive reveiwed the parts you guys suggested... And im sold pretty hardcore. I want to try and get them, so i will. We'll see how this all goes, but today is my B-Day, so one way or another ill post what happened at the end of the day.

I really like Mushkin RAM, they are very strong, and very good for OCing, but i wonder, do they have any RAM fast enough for the APU, or should i just drop that thought now? ill look around online, but i want some kind of confirmation before i buy Mushkin over the already suggested RAM.

Thanks everyone for the replies, and i hope you all have as good a day as im about to! PARTYTIME!
   
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Anarion
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PSU: Corsair AX760
Default 04-26-2013, 19:20 | posts: 11,010 | Location: Finland

You can pretty much forget about SuperPi, it isn't really relevant benchmark these days.

FYI, NewEgg has promo going on, you get 8GB ram with these mobos:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...PPSSMBPROMO418

If you grab BIOSTAR Hi-Fi A85W FM2, you get 8GB ram (Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz) with it and it costs $89.99 right now. So in other words you get 8GB RAM and mobo for less than $90! AMD A10-5800K CPU/APU costs $129.99 there. That combined would cost only $219,98. I'd act quickly now.

Next step would be CPU cooler and PSU especially if you plan to OC. You could already get cooler but once you start pushing APU, power consumption starts to rise quickly. Also if you have IDE DVD drive, you either need new one or adapter.

But anyway, have a nice BD!

Last edited by Anarion; 04-26-2013 at 20:02.
   
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Deathchild
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Videocard: HD7950CFX+Qnix2710
Processor: 3770K@4.8GHz delid
Mainboard: Gigabyte Z77X D3H 1.1
Memory: C Vengeance 8GB 1866
Soundcard: VIA VT2021
PSU: Seasonic Platinum 760W
Default 04-26-2013, 19:28 | posts: 2,061 | Location: Estonia

Quote:
Originally Posted by the1nfection View Post
I really like Mushkin RAM, they are very strong, and very good for OCing, but i wonder, do they have any RAM fast enough for the APU, or should i just drop that thought now? ill look around online, but i want some kind of confirmation before i buy Mushkin over the already suggested RAM.

Thanks everyone for the replies, and i hope you all have as good a day as im about to! PARTYTIME!

Yeah sure man, you can go ahead and check out Newegg for example for any other Mushkin ram, but try to find something that is above 1600+ (ideally). 1600s go with ok prices, 1866+ and up already gets higher. So that's where it gets a little difficult. But I'll do a quick search myself there see if I find anything..

The cheapest I could find was 79$ so that wouldn't work I'm afraid, but anyways those G.Skill 2x2GB 1866 sticks are just as good, if not better! (And besides this is like the only thing you can go for right now given the price)

But yeah, anyways, have fun, don't drink too much and happy birthday dude!



edit:

Damn dude Anarion found something really good, that board seems to be uber decent, coupled with those Vulcan ram sticks, you'll save up $30! I would say go for it.

And yeah as for the OC, a bit offtopic.. I managed hit 4.4 @ 1.27v, with High LLC (or Turbo LLC, don't remember) although it didn't seem to be fully stable.

I did manage to do a 3dmark2013 run with it and an IntelBurnTestV2 run with priority on "High" and on 4 threads.

That seemed to pass but it crashed on 3dmark11, so I'm guessing it's not fully stable. I know I should use Prime95 and run blend or small ffts for a few hours but I'm too lazy for that and don't have the time for it.

I got 4.2 @ 1.23v stable though, it managed to do the test on Very High Priority.. been running that now (and it seems fully stable) but I'd want to get it higher. Also a 1.27v increase for 200MHz is kinda hard to believe (damn it gets hot). I've not gotten the Dark Knight yet but I'll order soon.

Still haven't made up my mind though on the Dark Knight or Aegir.

Last edited by Deathchild; 04-26-2013 at 20:20.
   
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the1nfection
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Videocard: NVIDIA GeForce 9800
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PSU: FSP Group 350W
Default 04-26-2013, 23:33 | posts: 24 | Location: Daytona Beach, FL

okay... So ive just been told that an brand new intel I7 960 is coming in the next few days. When i asked about my RAM not being compatable they said not to worry. Then i mentioned the sockets beign different. "DONT WORRY" then i asked about the PSU. Again "dont worry". when prompted about my HDD being IDE he said "750 GB SATA drive. Problem solved."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEES! I am sooo happy right now i could **** a brick. Ill post up the actual specs when it arrives, but my Brother-in-law, who is a god with CPU's, and taught me how to overclock, ordered everything, so i know it'll be good.

The only problem is that over the next few days im going to literally DIE waiting for this thing to arrive.


Why is Super Pi not relevant anymore? it seems to benchmark really well on my Opteron, and gives me a quantifiable total of my improvement while OCing. at ve3ry least it still applies on my opteron cause its from 2007, the age where super pi was still relevant.

lastly.... thats not a bad OC, but you should keep it at the 4.2. Im sure you already know, but upping voltage EXPONENTIALLY ups temps, and upping MHz ups temps as well, but much less. That heat costs of that 200 MHz + voltage increase is not worth the heat it generates, so you should DEF wait until you get a new HS to try going past the 4.2 you hit.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 04-26-2013, 23:46 | posts: 24,260 | Location: NZ

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Originally Posted by the1nfection View Post


Why is Super Pi not relevant anymore? it seems to benchmark really well on my Opteron, and gives me a quantifiable total of my improvement while OCing. at ve3ry least it still applies on my opteron cause its from 2007, the age where super pi was still relevant.
SuperPi only runs on a single core so yeah it's more suited to older CPU's....it's OK for comparing results on the same processor though.

I use HyperPi which loads all cores, similar to P95 but not as stressful.
   
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---TK---
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Default 04-26-2013, 23:53 | posts: 18,784 | Location: New Jersey, USA

I ran an opty 170 at 2.8ghz for years, you should be able to up the clock on that 165
   
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Anarion
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Default 04-27-2013, 00:24 | posts: 11,010 | Location: Finland

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Originally Posted by the1nfection View Post
okay... So ive just been told that an brand new intel I7 960 is coming in the next few days. When i asked about my RAM not being compatable they said not to worry. Then i mentioned the sockets beign different. "DONT WORRY" then i asked about the PSU. Again "dont worry". when prompted about my HDD being IDE he said "750 GB SATA drive. Problem solved."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEES! I am sooo happy right now i could **** a brick. Ill post up the actual specs when it arrives, but my Brother-in-law, who is a god with CPU's, and taught me how to overclock, ordered everything, so i know it'll be good.

The only problem is that over the next few days im going to literally DIE waiting for this thing to arrive.


Why is Super Pi not relevant anymore? it seems to benchmark really well on my Opteron, and gives me a quantifiable total of my improvement while OCing. at ve3ry least it still applies on my opteron cause its from 2007, the age where super pi was still relevant.

lastly.... thats not a bad OC, but you should keep it at the 4.2. Im sure you already know, but upping voltage EXPONENTIALLY ups temps, and upping MHz ups temps as well, but much less. That heat costs of that 200 MHz + voltage increase is not worth the heat it generates, so you should DEF wait until you get a new HS to try going past the 4.2 you hit.
Looks like everything went better than expected! Oh, and SuperPI is the last tool you want to use for stability test these days. It doesn't say anything about system stability even if you run many instances at once. I personally trust Prime95, latest version really squeezes the juice from modern CPUs (supports AVX too).

@Deathchild
Daymn... You have a bad rock there. Mine does 4,3 GHz rock stable with HT enabled without touching 1,2v (I use offset based voltage tweaking).

Last edited by Anarion; 04-27-2013 at 02:17.
   
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