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Using 144 Hz monitors... Tahiti clocks idle at 501/1500?
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paleh0rse
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Default Using 144 Hz monitors... Tahiti clocks idle at 501/1500? - 04-20-2013, 05:48 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Does anyone know of a fix or workaround for Tahiti cards that idle at 501/1500 (instead of 300/150) when used with 144 Hz monitors?

I think it's a known bug...?

The interesting part is that it only affects the primary card in a Crossfire setup. The secondary card sits at the proper 300/150.
   
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hallryu
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Default 04-20-2013, 05:54 | posts: 11,396 | Location: England

That's normal for crossfire, are you running 2 or more screens? You should find that your second card turns off completely.

You can use Afterburner to lower the clocks on the first card if it bothers you.

If both cards run at 300/150 on multiple monitors you can get bad flickering.

Last edited by hallryu; 04-20-2013 at 05:56.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-20-2013, 06:23 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallryu View Post
That's normal for crossfire, are you running 2 or more screens? You should find that your second card turns off completely.

You can use Afterburner to lower the clocks on the first card if it bothers you.

If both cards run at 300/150 on multiple monitors you can get bad flickering.
I'm running just one monitor @ 144 Hz. I was told on another forum that it's a known 13.3 driver bug with just Tahiti-based cards that stay locked at 501/1500 instead of 300/150 when idle and set to 144 Hz -- something to do with it locking at 3D voltage, rather than 2D voltage

Is that not the case?

This results in the primary card idling 12 degrees C higher than the secondary card.

Last edited by paleh0rse; 04-20-2013 at 06:26.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-20-2013, 06:46 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

This was the explanation I was given in the other forum... maybe you can help me decipher it?
Quote:
This is a bug.
The idle temps increase because the video card switches into 3d clocks, at 500 mhz core and 3D gpu voots (instead of 2d volts; the CORRECT 2d volts for 500 mhz is 0.949v on ghz editoin cards (and maybe on non ghz 7970s too)), and the RAM speed being set to the current overdrive speed instead of the correct 150 mhz.

This causes a scrambled screen on flash videos IF you have overclocked the RAM past the default 3d speeds, because the GPU "resets" to 501/1500 (or 1375 for non ghz 7970's) when in flash...it's the ram downclocking that causes the corruption.
I think he's equating that problem to the same/similar thing happenign with my 144 Hz? Maybe?

EDIT: apparently this problem isn't new -- it's been seen in previous Catalyst drivers. Check out posts #6 and #8 at the link below where one user mentions a potential fix, but doesn't link to it
http://forums.iamextreme.net/f39/att...871/#post47682

Last edited by paleh0rse; 04-20-2013 at 06:57.
   
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hallryu
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Default 04-21-2013, 08:52 | posts: 11,396 | Location: England

No it's a Powerplay issue and is due to you running multiple screens. It's been around far longer than 13.3 drivers.

If the clocks bother you then set up your 2D/3D profiles with MSI Afterburner.
   
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NiColaoS
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Default 04-21-2013, 11:32 | posts: 371 | Location: Macedonia, Greece

The same happens on me when I use the Windows Update version... It's bugged... Does WU provides the version 13.1? I don't remember. The problem is solved with all other, newer drivers.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-22-2013, 00:57 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallryu View Post
No it's a Powerplay issue and is due to you running multiple screens. It's been around far longer than 13.3 drivers.

If the clocks bother you then set up your 2D/3D profiles with MSI Afterburner.
Once again, I'm not running multiple screens....

It happens when I switch my ONLY monitor to 144 Hz.
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 01:03 | posts: 1,799

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
Once again, I'm not running multiple screens....

It happens when I switch my ONLY monitor to 144 Hz.
Ahh, What Graphic Card are you currently using? I don't think you mentioned it yet.
   
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IcE
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Default 04-22-2013, 01:45 | posts: 8,479 | Location: London, Ontario

It's a bug that you can't fix. Just use 120Hz, the difference isn't huge.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-22-2013, 02:33 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellon132 View Post
Ahh, What Graphic Card are you currently using? I don't think you mentioned it yet.
2 x Powercolor AX7870 Myst Edition (XT)'s. It's my understanding, though, that this happens with ANY Tahiti-based card when you activate 144 Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
It's a bug that you can't fix. Just use 120Hz, the difference isn't huge.
You are correct that setting the monitor to 120 Hz drops both cards to the proper 300/150 frequencies when idle; but, that pretty much defeats the purpose of paying extra for a 144 Hz monitor and then buying two powerful video cards to take advantage of all those Hz!

You stated that it's a bug. Has there been any indication that AMD is aware of the issue and that they're working on a fix for the next driver?

By the way, everyone, thanks for trying to help me!
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 03:20 | posts: 1,799

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
2 x Powercolor AX7870 Myst Edition (XT)'s. It's my understanding, though, that this happens with ANY Tahiti-based card when you activate 144 Hz.


You are correct that setting the monitor to 120 Hz drops both cards to the proper 300/150 frequencies when idle; but, that pretty much defeats the purpose of paying extra for a 144 Hz monitor and then buying two powerful video cards to take advantage of all those Hz!

You stated that it's a bug. Has there been any indication that AMD is aware of the issue and that they're working on a fix for the next driver?

By the way, everyone, thanks for trying to help me!
Well if you want to use the 144 Hz for your monitor without the clock issue you can always try setting your 2D Clock and 3D Clock by using MSI Afterburner. This involves setting up a profile for your Graphic Card.

So, all you would need to do is Enable Profile One and Two by right clicking on profile 1 and 2 then create the 2D Clocks you would like your Graphic Card to default to when on Idle and save the profile. Next Choose the 3D Clocks you would like to see then save profile. Next Access Msi Settings tab and go to profile then click on the bar that Says 2D Profile and choose your lowest clock. Next repeat the same step to choose your 3D Clock but this time choose the Highest clock your graphic card can Game with.

Other Thoughts
A user seem to have mentioned this previously but I think you miss it....

EDITED
For MSI Afterburner needs to be left open so profile can switch between 2D and 3D Clocks.

Last edited by dellon132; 04-22-2013 at 03:39.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-22-2013, 04:06 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellon132 View Post
Well if you want to use the 144 Hz for your monitor without the clock issue you can always try setting your 2D Clock and 3D Clock by using MSI Afterburner. This involves setting up a profile for your Graphic Card.

So, all you would need to do is Enable Profile One and Two by right clicking on profile 1 and 2 then create the 2D Clocks you would like your Graphic Card to default to when on Idle and save the profile. Next Choose the 3D Clocks you would like to see then save profile. Next Access Msi Settings tab and go to profile then click on the bar that Says 2D Profile and choose your lowest clock. Next repeat the same step to choose your 3D Clock but this time choose the Highest clock your graphic card can Game with.

Other Thoughts
A user seem to have mentioned this previously but I think you miss it....

EDITED
For MSI Afterburner needs to be left open so profile can switch between 2D and 3D Clocks.
I already use AB to control my OC and fan profiles, so leaving it open isn't an issue. I also already tried using AB to get around the bug. However, within AB, you cannot set the Core clock lower than 485 MHz, and you cannot set the Memory lower than 750 MHz -- so, trying to use AB to set it to 300/150 to avoid the bug while in 2D won't work.

I guess I could set it to 485/750 in 2D, which is slightly better than the bugged 501/1500, but I'd really hate to lose the auto-scaling features built into these cards. (EDIT: Also, doing so would apply those settings to both cards -- which actually raises the settings on the second card since that one DOES still drop to 300/150 at idle).


Last edited by paleh0rse; 04-22-2013 at 04:16.
   
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GREGIX
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Default 04-22-2013, 10:03 | posts: 240 | Location: Poland

if U have nvidia(as physx or so) card U may be interested with : http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

BTW 144 or 120 doesn't matter man, really. If i ever buy that kind monitor, it will be only for lightboost in 2d....im sick of screen tearing
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 10:14 | posts: 1,799

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
I already use AB to control my OC and fan profiles, so leaving it open isn't an issue. I also already tried using AB to get around the bug. However, within AB, you cannot set the Core clock lower than 485 MHz, and you cannot set the Memory lower than 750 MHz -- so, trying to use AB to set it to 300/150 to avoid the bug while in 2D won't work.

I guess I could set it to 485/750 in 2D, which is slightly better than the bugged 501/1500, but I'd really hate to lose the auto-scaling features built into these cards. (EDIT: Also, doing so would apply those settings to both cards -- which actually raises the settings on the second card since that one DOES still drop to 300/150 at idle).

Look for an option or box that says disable Multi Gpu Syncronization. I'm not sure if MSI Afterburner has it as I am currently using Trixx (trying to use...)

EDITED
Ok Trixx was a no go for me, went back to Msi Afterburner try unchecking the checkbox of the setting called "Synchronize settings for similar graphic processor"

Other Thoughts
Msi Afterburner minimizes to System tray when using the minimize instead of close.

Last edited by dellon132; 04-22-2013 at 10:30.
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 13:52 | posts: 185

What is the resolution you have?

Keep 144Hz, but set 1024x768 for example. Then check GPU frequency. If it decreases to 300 I have one theory (GPU needs to clock higher to maintain such refresh rate even for desktop), if it remains on 501 Hz Its some bug.
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 14:39 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Great ideas! I'll test both when I get home tonight.

At the end of the day, this obviously isn't a serious bug, but it's still annoying -- and I just hope to gain enough traction that AMD addresses it in an update. As 144 Hz "gaming" monitors become more prevalent, it will affect more and more owners, so patching the bug before that happens may go a long way for AMD's rep amongst enthusiasts. (not that they seem to care much about that rep -- especially given their new-found focus on the console market -- but still... lol)
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 15:21 | posts: 8,479 | Location: London, Ontario

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
2 x Powercolor AX7870 Myst Edition (XT)'s. It's my understanding, though, that this happens with ANY Tahiti-based card when you activate 144 Hz.


You are correct that setting the monitor to 120 Hz drops both cards to the proper 300/150 frequencies when idle; but, that pretty much defeats the purpose of paying extra for a 144 Hz monitor and then buying two powerful video cards to take advantage of all those Hz!

You stated that it's a bug. Has there been any indication that AMD is aware of the issue and that they're working on a fix for the next driver?

By the way, everyone, thanks for trying to help me!
You're talking about the Asus VG248QE I assume? I have that monitor, and I'm telling you, seeing the difference between 144 and 120 is quite hard.
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 16:02 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
You're talking about the Asus VG248QE I assume? I have that monitor, and I'm telling you, seeing the difference between 144 and 120 is quite hard.
I agree that the difference is damn small, but I don't like settling for lesser performance. I'm submitting a bug report to AMD in hopes of seeing it fixed in a future driver update. If others who have 144 Hz monitors and Tahiti-based AMD cards do the same, maybe we can gain some traction on this...
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 18:06 | posts: 204 | Location: England

It ISNT a bug, a higher clock speed is needed for a higher refreshrate or for multiple monitors.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-22-2013, 18:44 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
It ISNT a bug, a higher clock speed is needed for a higher refreshrate or for multiple monitors.
So, even though the GPU idles just fine @ 120 Hz with 300/150 clocks, a bump from 120 to 144 Hz requires the same card to rise to 501/1500? That 24 Hz rise in refresh rate raises the memory requirement by a factor of 10? Really!?

I sincerely hope you're wrong, and that this is, in fact, a bug.
   
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Default 04-22-2013, 22:50 | posts: 1,799

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
So, even though the GPU idles just fine @ 120 Hz with 300/150 clocks, a bump from 120 to 144 Hz requires the same card to rise to 501/1500? That 24 Hz rise in refresh rate raises the memory requirement by a factor of 10? Really!?

I sincerely hope you're wrong, and that this is, in fact, a bug.
Just so you know ATI Tray tools allow you to further downclock your Graphic Card. Msi Afterburner limited my underclock to 325 Core and 200 Mem, however when I used ATI Tray tools I could go to a 100 Core and 200 mem (I could go lower but my normal idle clocks are 110 Core and 200 Mem).
I'm not quite sure if the HD 7000 Series Graphic Cards are supported though, but the software does have a tweak that shows up when installing to allow unsupported graphic cards to use software overclock.

Other Thoughts
Even though a higher res may require a higher Clock it should not need to use a clock that demands that much power to run efficiently. It will just hinder performance when playing games in 144hz since most of the load will be going towards res instead of the game. (Just a thought)

Last edited by dellon132; 04-22-2013 at 22:53.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-23-2013, 04:12 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGIX View Post
if U have nvidia(as physx or so) card U may be interested with : http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

BTW 144 or 120 doesn't matter man, really. If i ever buy that kind monitor, it will be only for lightboost in 2d....im sick of screen tearing
I use AMD cards, so no lightboost for me.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-23-2013, 04:22 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler2 View Post
What is the resolution you have?

Keep 144Hz, but set 1024x768 for example. Then check GPU frequency. If it decreases to 300 I have one theory (GPU needs to clock higher to maintain such refresh rate even for desktop), if it remains on 501 Hz Its some bug.
OK, I just ran some tests. Regardless of resolution, the GPU idles at 501/1500 when set to 144 Hz. I went all the way down to 800 x 600 (and each step in between).

For all resolutions, it idles at 300/150 when set to 120 Hz, but immediately jumps to 501/1500 when set to 144 Hz.

Does that tell us anything?

Last edited by paleh0rse; 04-23-2013 at 04:37.
   
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dellon132
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Default 04-23-2013, 04:46 | posts: 1,799

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
OK, I just ran some tests. Regardless of resolution, the GPU idles at 501/1500 when set to 144 Hz. I went all the way down to 800 x 600 (and each step in between).

For all resolutions, it idles at 300/150 when set to 120 Hz, but immediately jumps to 501/1500 when set to 144 Hz.

Does that tell us anything?
Yes, now we know why it's called the 144 Hz 501/1500 Clock bug.
   
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paleh0rse
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Default 04-23-2013, 05:59 | posts: 61 | Location: Near DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellon132 View Post
Yes, now we know why it's called the 144 Hz 501/1500 Clock bug.
Well, there are some here who are claiming that it's not a bug at all, and that it's necessary to handle 144 Hz. I don't buy that either, but...

Has AMD ever acknowledged it as a bug?

Last edited by paleh0rse; 04-23-2013 at 06:02.
   
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