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Need Suggestions and knowledge - Powersupply & 12v Amps for Gaming
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  (#1)
Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default Need Suggestions and knowledge - Powersupply & 12v Amps for Gaming - 03-31-2013, 19:30 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Hello friends!
I recently have been in doubt, due to in efficient performance in the games of 2013. Like Crysis 3, Tomb raider, Bioshock infinite etc.
I tried updating drivers. But lowering the settings to MEDIUM details is the only solution to smooth gaming experience at 1080p.
Considering the specifications i have. I would like to ask you fellows how much power will be sufficient but not a waste, if i want to invest in buying a BRONZE POWER SUPPLY. Also see this screen shot where Amperes in VRM cross 40 and sometimes reach 48a ! aside from the fact that 12v values drop from 11.90 to 11.78 or even 11.67 at times. Not too frequently. As in they are stable but they do ripple these values.


http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5411/forumwo.png

* So the two questions i need to ask are:
Q: how much wattage does my PC require while gaming at peak load with current hardware, even if i change my GPU from 5870 to a 7870 and core i3 to a corei5 . With nothing to overclock.
Q: Do Amps on GPU VRM tell that our PSU needs this much ampere supply to let the hardware run EFFECTIVELY or this value has no relevance to a worried PC gamer in terms of performance dissatisfaction?
   
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scoutingwraith
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Videocard: eVGA 670 FTW/ Intel4400
Processor: i5-3570K 4.0/i7-4500U 2.4
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Memory: 16GB 1600 / 8GB 1600
Soundcard: Realtek HD / Realtek HD
PSU: Corsair HX750W / 9 Cell
Default 03-31-2013, 19:43 | posts: 9,455 | Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha

I would say a minimum of 700W PSU is recommended for the system. Get something that has a lot of Ampere on +12V Line (Either Multiple or Singe Rail it doesnt matter). In my case I have this model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139010 which has 62A on the +12 Line which should be more than enough for anything you can throw at it for a single card system. Best way to measure is to actually have the system and measure with Multimeter

Also remember not to skip on the PSU because this is what powers your system and is essential that is good.

Last edited by scoutingwraith; 03-31-2013 at 19:45.
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 03-31-2013, 20:21 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

A drop of 12V to 11.67V isnt that much and only really matters if its constantly changing "and causing crashes" that cannot be alleviated.
The ATX spec allows up to 5% variation for stable voltage.
This means down to 11.4V is fine.

Although I do agree with ScoutingWraith that your PSU is a bit low output for your system.
You 'can' have performance issues from a PSU that isnt powerful enough.
But the window for having performance issues without crashes as well, is very small, and its unlikely to be the issue.
I'm only saying this as you may have another issue or too high an expectation for your system.
I suspect the latter.

Monitor CPU use with task manager.
If CPU use of "any" single core hits around 90%+, you are CPU limited.

Monitor GPU use and gfx card memory use with MSI Afterburner.
If gfx memory fills up, you may get slower performance.
If your GPU is getting maxed out (99% ish), that is directly limiting your framerate.
   
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yasamoka
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PSU: CM Silent Pro Hybrid 1300
Default 03-31-2013, 20:41 | posts: 3,155 | Location: Lebanon

The problem would be ripple at this point, and not the drop in voltage from 12V to 11.67V.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Exclamation 04-01-2013, 01:10 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Thankyou all for replying

I have monitored CPU GPU usage along with ripples and temps from AIDA64 some recent edition. All these statistics are on Very high to ultra settings @ 1080p.

*CPU excedes 90% in crysis 3. In tomb raider and Bioshock infinite it is under 80% at all times. hovering from load to load.
*GPU excedes 95% usage in all 3 games. Memory usage how ever is what i try to keep under 950MB by lowering shadows and textures to medium settings.
*Temperatures of CPU do not cross 68c and for GPU do not cross 74c.
*Ripples are not too frequent. But all the time it never crosses 4% variation. Stays under.

So my query remains dear fellows, are the amps on my 12v rails insufficient? They state 17+17 giving 300 watts. Which makes 24-25amps in actual.
AND.. What does that GPU's VRM value is indicating? Anything important? Is it what i asked initially?

Last edited by Solitude; 04-01-2013 at 01:40.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-01-2013, 01:13 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Another question i might add. If i am to buy a power supply then a 80+ Bronze Corsair GS600 would do fine? What about antec xigmatek and silverstone brands of 80+ white and bronze models from 2009/2010. Because only these 4 - 5 brands are the options available in my country. Where as i read Jonnyguru's reviews on these power supplies and guess Corsair made's to the top of the list.

Edit:
I am limited on a budget that's why anything more than a bronze would not be possible

Last edited by Solitude; 04-01-2013 at 01:39.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-01-2013, 16:09 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Anyone?
   
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Pill Monster
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Mainboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2
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Soundcard: Audigy 2 Platinum Ex 5.1
PSU: AcBel M8 750
Default 04-01-2013, 16:21 | posts: 23,872 | Location: NZ

Why are you determined to buy a new PSU? It won't make Crysis 3 run any better.
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-01-2013, 16:25 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
CPU excedes 90% in crysis 3. In tomb raider and Bioshock infinite it is under 80% at all times. hovering from load to load.
Check each core, I stressed that in my last post.

Quote:
*GPU excedes 95% usage in all 3 games. Memory usage how ever is what i try to keep under 950MB by lowering shadows and textures to medium settings.
Looks like your GPU is too slow.
Can you post the Afterburner graphs?

If you are keeping memory under 950mb by reducing settings, then you dont have enough memory to increase the settings.
Therefore you need more memory.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-01-2013, 18:11 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Thank you once again for replying.
These are the MSI, Task manager and AIDA64 stats for everything needed.
Running the game on 720p windowed and very high settings. Just so that i can take the screen shot. Obvious assumption that @ 1080p: Vram usage, GPU usage and CPU usage will increase.




So what do you fellows suggest? CPU upgrade? PSU upgrade or a GPU upgrade?
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-01-2013, 18:49 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

On Tomb raider, your GPU is maxed out.
You need a faster gfx card to increase settings and/or reach 60fps continuous.

On Crysis, your CPU is maxing out, as is your GPU.
GFX memory is almost maxed, so if you have reduced settings, memory is limiting you as well.
Bad luck!

Bioshock its hard to tell if you are having a problem.
One CPU core is close to maxing out, but it looks like you can maintain 60fps.
If you are having performance issues in this game ever, can you post the graphs of when it happens.
ie the cpu graph cant show much history, so needs to be captured at the time of the problem.
Memory use is close to maxed, if you have reduced settings, memory could be limiting you.


Forgot to mention the PSU.
Your psu is being pushed quite hard.
While it isnt in danger yet, it is being worn out very quickly.
I recommend replacing it asap if you want to be able to keep it as a spare, in case of future issues with another psu, or if you want to build a spare low power pc.

Last edited by Mufflore; 04-01-2013 at 19:01.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-01-2013, 21:47 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

@mufflore .Thank you for elaborating so clearly.
Can you recommend me a PSU, GPU and CPU.
*I believe that any corei5 2nd gen CPU would run these games much better than my current CPU.
*As for GPU do you think a 7850 would be more than enough? Or i need at least a 7870?
*What about the PSU? A 550-600w PSU with 80+ efficiency would do fine? What about 12v amps i need? How much?

What do you guys think? Which CPU GPU and PSU.
Thanks
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-01-2013, 21:48 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Also Frame stuttering on bioshock is random and its the game's engine fault. Many people even with much more powerful specs are facing this issue. I even noticed that the stuttering issue is present even on underutilized GPU and CPU statistics.
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-01-2013, 22:27 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Your motherboard doesnt support CPU multiplier overclocking, so you wont get the benefit of a K series CPU and wont be able to overclock the CPU....
Unless using the base clock, but that can be risky as it overclocks a lot more things and you risk data loss or even damage if you push too hard, not recommended past a few % extra.

Unless you can overclock the CPU, you wont get the max from Crysis 3 sadly, but you can get a much better experience by upgrading.
I cant max the framerate, my framerate is around 40 to 60fps (options maxed with no AA), with very occasional drops below 30fps.
But its not a bad experience when it stays above 30fps with vsync.

Get an SB or IB i5 of at least 3.0GHz, like the 2320, but the faster the better if the price isnt much more.
IB is up to 10% faster for the same speed.
The CPU will be a little bit limited by the speed of your memory (1333MHz), but its the last thing you should consider changing atm.
See how you get on with the other upgrades.


Something around the performance of a GTX660ti or better is probably where you want to "start".
2GB minimum.
A 7870 or faster for the gfx quality you want to use imo.


I dont know what PSUs are available where you are.
If you can get a Corsair, they are generally good quality and have a good warranty.
Let us know what you have available.

Last edited by Mufflore; 04-01-2013 at 22:32.
   
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Pill Monster
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Videocard: 7950 Vapor-X 1175/1550
Processor: AMD FX-8320 @4.8
Mainboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2
Memory: 8GB Kingston HyperX 2400
Soundcard: Audigy 2 Platinum Ex 5.1
PSU: AcBel M8 750
Default 04-01-2013, 22:43 | posts: 23,872 | Location: NZ

I need a bigger monitor...

I'm surprised at the fps in Crysis, what are your settings? That CPU is really struggling though....
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-02-2013, 01:26 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

@Pill Monster Settings in every game are from High to Very High Not Ultra or Maxed out. Since corei3 + 1GB Vram isn't enough power.

@Mufflore Thank you again for replying exactly how i wanted an answer. As for availability of hardware.
I can always post on a local forum for used processors in i5, same goes for a PSU. As for GPU 7850/7870/660/660Ti is easily available. Though i can not afford a 660ti. Plus I am not a fan of overclocking.

These are the new processors available in the local market.
http://www.galaxy.com.pk/intel-processor-pakistan.html
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-02-2013, 02:27 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

No brainer, get the IB 3570, non K version.
Its 6% more expensive than the 2500 but is easily 6% faster at the same speed, and is 100MHz faster as well so is the better value.
Its only 11% more expensive than the cheapest i5 and is more than 11% faster.

So 3570 is the best value if buying from that shop, 3.4GHz default , Turbos to 3.8GHz.
With a 2% Base overclock (should be very safe and is easy to do), that will push it to nearly 3.9GHz.


Dont buy a cheap quality PSU.
Or second hand, as you wont have any idea how worn out it is or if it can cause damage.
The seller might not even know if it is worn out/faulty, and if they do know, they are sure not to tell you.
It might be the reason they are selling it!
If a second hand PSU causes damage, you cant claim for that, you bear all the costs.
If a new PSU causes damage, you are unlikely to be able to claim for it, check your local trading laws.
So get a good PSU, save yourself hassle and have some peace of mind!

Think of the PSU as a heart, you dont want it to fail because it can harm other parts of the PC.
A good PSU with easily enough power should last a lot of years.
A quality 600W/650W PSU will be fine.
If you want to go to 750W, all the better.

Be sure to get a gfx card with at least 2GB VRam.
This has become the minimum, games are starting to breach this limit.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-02-2013, 12:23 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

@Mufflore: Your kind suggestion noted sir.
My budget for a PSU is not more than 60-70$ as for the GPU 200-240$.

PSU brands available here are thermaltake, corsair, xigmatek, cooler master.
Gpu brands available here are HIS, Gigabyte, Club 3d, Inno 3d, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS. (Saphire, ASUS, Gigabyte are out of question because they are ridiculously overpriced here like 30$ or so expensive than the market value.)
(Inno 3d, cooler master, XFX are cheap quality unreliable brands)
Club 3d on the other hand is quite cheap, giving 2 year warranty + very popular amongst buyer these days.

These are my options.
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-02-2013, 13:06 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

I cant help you choose in such a non specific way.
I dont know which PSU models you have or how much they cost where you live.
Let me know which Corsair models (600W+) are available and how much they cost.

Re gfx card brands, they are mostly all the same cards with different coolers and clock speeds (modded BIOS), choose one you are comfortable with.
XFX were excellent when doing NVidia cards, I dont know how good they are now that they are ATI only.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-02-2013, 13:14 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Highest number of complains here are with inno3d and XFX. HIS and CLUB 3d are my only options. Where as GPUs like GTX 660, 7850, 7870 Fall in my budget. These 3.

As for PSU i will update you very soon. Currently market is out of stock. There has been some shipment problem at local distributors end. So no corsair these days. I will update you asap.
   
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teleguy
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Memory: DDR3 8 GB/DDR3 8 GB
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DS
PSU: Corsair 750W/Coolerm 800W
Default 04-02-2013, 14:53 | posts: 1,110

Don't get the 7850. In many cases it's as fast as your 5870 or only slightly faster.
I'd recommend the 7870, if possible buy the XT/LE version which is on par with a 7950.
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-02-2013, 16:01 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

They have stopped manufacturing the Tahiti LE chipset version of 7870.
Its out of stock in my country :'(
   
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airbud7
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Videocard: HIS HD 6870
Processor: I3-2120
Mainboard: ASRock H61icafe
Memory: 8GB G.SKILL DDR3 1333
Soundcard: Xonar DX
PSU: PC Power&Cooling S61EPS
Default 04-03-2013, 01:38 | posts: 2,883 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Agree with Mufflore 100%

Note: Your mobo requires BIOS Version 0042 or newer for Ivy Bridge....0016=Sandy Bridge only...
   
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Solitude
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Videocard: AMD 7870 XT 2GB
Processor: Core i5 3470
Mainboard: ASUS P8B75M-LX
Memory: 8GB XMS3 @ 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative X-fi Titanium .
PSU: Corsair VS 650
Default 04-03-2013, 11:14 | posts: 113 | Location: Pakistan

Oh... So i can update my bios on current processor as well?
Also for Power supplies currently market only has VS 500-650 Watts Corsair. How is this model? Any good?
   
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Mufflore
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Videocard: KFA2 Anarchy 580@930/4650
Processor: 2500K @ 4.5GHz - blew it!
Mainboard: Gigabyte P67 UD4 B3
Memory: 8G Kngston 2.2GHz CL11 1T
Soundcard: Minimax+ & Dexa Opamps !!
PSU: Corsair Pro AX750
Default 04-03-2013, 11:46 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

You can update your BIOS any time before you put the new processor in.

The VS650 looks fine but I cant find any reviews from reviewers that do hardcore testing.
Its heritage is good, its based on CWT hardware.
It isnt 80plus certified so might use a bit more electricity than say the Corsair CX series (80plus bronze certified).

It has a 3 year warranty, which you should easily exceed if you dont push it hard, so get the 650W version.
   
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