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Linux users file EU complaint against Microsoft
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Hilbert Hagedoorn
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Default Linux users file EU complaint against Microsoft - 03-28-2013, 06:41 | posts: 21,323 | Location: Guru3D testlab

The 8,000-member Hispalinux, which represents users and developers of the Linux operating system in Spain, said Microsoft had made it difficult for users of computers sold with its Windows 8 platform ...

Linux users file EU complaint against Microsoft
   
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entr0cks
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Default 03-28-2013, 10:41 | posts: 9 | Location: Estonia

Good guy MS helps to fund EU's budget.
Kind of ridiculous really, what they have to do on their software.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 11:24 | posts: 2,853

the EU is skint so they will try to get funds from any big company , it seems the EU is run by bent greedy people
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 11:41 | posts: 5,677 | Location: Timisoara, Romania

so i guess this apply to computers that have Windows 8 preinstalled on them, right? then buy pc's without OS installed and put whatever you want..jeez..
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 11:53 | posts: 13,567 | Location: USA

Some of these linux guys will cry about anything.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 12:07 | posts: 389 | Location: Lithuania

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic1 View Post
the EU is skint so they will try to get funds from any big company , it seems the EU is run by bent greedy people
tell me, what company isn't?
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 12:45 | posts: 6,559

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMEk View Post
tell me, what company isn't?
TIL the European Union is a company.

So, not really seeing how your comparison is relevant given that one is a union of states that doesn't need to be funded by sales of a product and the other is a business whose existence relies on selling Windows.

At any rate.

The only thing this applies to is an OEM computer/tablet where secure boot can't be disabled. Custom machines, just disable it, no problem.

Secure boot is another level of security for Microsoft, and it is a decent one. The onus should be on the OEMs to have an on/off switch for it. Microsoft doesn't mandate its use on anything but RT, which is entirely their software, hardware, and platform. In fact, they encourage the ability to turn it off.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 12:47 | posts: 1,031 | Location: Nottingham, MD

What interests me is if UEFI prevents booting from a live disk. If not, then it makes the whole "security" thing a pointless defense. The likelihood of a virus booting your system to a completely different OS is next to nothing. The only thing it will prevent is someone from walking up to your computer, putting a disk for a different OS in and trying to install it. How many people have that problem?!?!
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 13:25 | posts: 19,054 | Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by isidore View Post
so i guess this apply to computers that have Windows 8 preinstalled on them, right? then buy pc's without OS installed and put whatever you want..jeez..
Thing is, 90+% of laptops are sold with Windows whether you like it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhazeDelta1 View Post
Some of these linux guys will cry about anything.
If you've never tried to run another OS other than Windows on an OEM machine, you have no idea the frustration people have with Microsoft. Microsoft has been trying to lock the market in for more than a decade now. Sure, there are workaround to the problem, but it needs to be authorized by Microsoft first to get Secure Boot working with Linux which is what people are having issues with.

deltatux
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 13:35 | posts: 389 | Location: Lithuania

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPlayNaked View Post
TIL the European Union is a company.
EU itself is not a company, but whenever money is involved almost everybody becomes greedy, microsoft also is not an exception, US with it's patents and all other countries, states, companies whatever. Well i didn't see right when microsoft was fined by EU because of some browser nonsense, but look from another point, microsoft aren't angels too, nor US as a union/country.

Last edited by NAMEk; 03-28-2013 at 13:40.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 13:39 | posts: 528 | Location: UK

I find it quite funny how its always Microsoft's fault whenever someone else can't sell their product or get it onto the market. You don't see people taking Apple to court just because they bundle Safari with every single one of their OS's.

If Linux users want their OS out there then how about they stop relying on PC's and make their own damn hardware! That way they can have Linux on every single one of those machines. Oh but wait... that would require, money, skill and effort.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 14:00 | posts: 4,903 | Location: London

Choice of OS should be there, if you wanna use linux and ditch windows, should be able to do it off the hat, not have to faff around using shortcuts etc to get the OS on your PC.
   
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Default 03-28-2013, 20:46 | posts: 1,808 | Location: Calgary Canada®

Oops, mistake. Carry on to the next post please.
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 00:17 | posts: 2,469 | Location: Kansas City, Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltatux View Post
Thing is, 90+% of laptops are sold with Windows whether you like it or not.



If you've never tried to run another OS other than Windows on an OEM machine, you have no idea the frustration people have with Microsoft. Microsoft has been trying to lock the market in for more than a decade now. Sure, there are workaround to the problem, but it needs to be authorized by Microsoft first to get Secure Boot working with Linux which is what people are having issues with.

deltatux
That's not MS fault, blame the OEM for not providing a machine that can do it. Better yet how about any of the people complaining start a company that makes that type of machine.
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 00:19 | posts: 6,440 | Location: Chilling

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCjoker View Post
That's not MS fault, blame the OEM for not providing a machine that can do it. Better yet how about any of the people complaining start a company that makes that type of machine.
It seems the market for it is only 8,000 people . Just hiring the patent lawyer would already put you in the red.
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 01:51 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenMaster View Post
If Linux users want their OS out there then how about they stop relying on PC's and make their own damn hardware! That way they can have Linux on every single one of those machines. Oh but wait... that would require, money, skill and effort.
Yeah because we all know Intel, AMD, nVidia and ARM are all Microsoft who is behind every single advance in hardware in the last 40 years.

I don't see Microsoft doing their own hardware either, they grab it and scream "FIRST!!11!!" when they're actually 40 comments before theirs.

Last edited by The Chubu; 03-29-2013 at 01:54.
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 02:51 | posts: 109 | Location: Topeka

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltatux View Post
Thing is, 90+% of laptops are sold with Windows whether you like it or not.



If you've never tried to run another OS other than Windows on an OEM machine, you have no idea the frustration people have with Microsoft. Microsoft has been trying to lock the market in for more than a decade now. Sure, there are workaround to the problem, but it needs to be authorized by Microsoft first to get Secure Boot working with Linux which is what people are having issues with.

deltatux
No it does not have to be authorized by Microsoft. It is up to the OEM to allow Secure Boot to be turned off. Microsoft does not now nor have they ever suggested that Secure Boot should be turned on and locked that way. Secure Boot is a good thing for the PC industry and if Linux can't learn to adapt to new tech then it is Linux that has the problem and they and Linux users need to get over it.

But I understand it is easier to blame Microsoft and Windows 8 than to buy hardware that would support the OS you intend to install on said hardware. I have installed and still run Linux on several PC's some that had Windows 8 installed on them. But I had the forethought to check the PC before I bought it so I would know that I could run Linux on it. It is really not that hard to do.
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 03:10 | posts: 16,605 | Location: US East Coast

If SecureBoot is part of UEFI.....how exactly is this Microsoft's fault? Microsoft didn't develop UEFI....nor do they run Dell, HP, Compaq, NEC, Acer, Sony, Toshiba, etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltatux View Post
If you've never tried to run another OS other than Windows on an OEM machine, you have no idea the frustration people have with Microsoft.
How is it Microsoft's fault? Microsoft doesn't design laptops...all they do is provide the OS. Not the fault of MS if people have problems getting Linux to work on the hardware that it chosen by the manufacturer.


   
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Default 03-29-2013, 03:59 | posts: 3,827 | Location: Sweden

omg windows doesnt offer links to linux and osx on startup, must pay 5 billion dollars thx
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 04:41 | posts: 19,054 | Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCjoker View Post
That's not MS fault, blame the OEM for not providing a machine that can do it. Better yet how about any of the people complaining start a company that makes that type of machine.
SecureBoot which is built into these motherboards has been pushed by Microsoft. If Microsoft allowed the signature to be signed by a third-party entity that's trusted by both Microsoft and the open source community, then this wouldn't be a problem. However, to force others to have to rely on Microsoft to sign the keys in order for Linux to work is just wrong because if Microsoft don't want to sign the keys then there's no way to boot Linux or any open source OS on these systems.

While Microsoft has stated that it's not mandatory, they've been pushing OEMs to do so by its sheer influential market power and there are many laptops out there that have SecureBoot enabled without a disable switch. People tend to forget that Microsoft and Intel both have the power to bend OEMs to their favours, it's been evident for the past decade with both companies getting slapped by the EU and the US DoJ for abusing its dominant market position.

deltatux

Last edited by deltatux; 03-29-2013 at 04:43.
   
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warlord
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Default 03-29-2013, 05:25 | posts: 497

microsoft tries to block free OS to EU just because EU is the #1 on MS OS piracy tbh, now EU tries to help that "stealing" which costs millions btw...
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 09:59 | posts: 389 | Location: Lithuania

Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord View Post
microsoft tries to block free OS to EU just because EU is the #1 on MS OS piracy tbh, now EU tries to help that "stealing" which costs millions btw...
Well you're wrong, ASIA is N1, Europe should be N2 ;D
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 12:42 | posts: 717 | Location: Tonawanda

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltatux View Post
SecureBoot which is built into these motherboards has been pushed by Microsoft. If Microsoft allowed the signature to be signed by a third-party entity that's trusted by both Microsoft and the open source community, then this wouldn't be a problem. However, to force others to have to rely on Microsoft to sign the keys in order for Linux to work is just wrong because if Microsoft don't want to sign the keys then there's no way to boot Linux or any open source OS on these systems.

While Microsoft has stated that it's not mandatory, they've been pushing OEMs to do so by its sheer influential market power and there are many laptops out there that have SecureBoot enabled without a disable switch. People tend to forget that Microsoft and Intel both have the power to bend OEMs to their favours, it's been evident for the past decade with both companies getting slapped by the EU and the US DoJ for abusing its dominant market position.

deltatux
You saved me from typing
   
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