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EU fines Microsoft $731 million
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Hilbert Hagedoorn
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Default EU fines Microsoft $731 million - 03-07-2013, 07:21 | posts: 20,714 | Location: Guru3D testlab

The European Union fined Microsoft Corp 561 million euros ($731 million) on Wednesday for failing to offer users a choice of web browser, an unprecedented sanction that will act as a warning to other ...

EU fines Microsoft $731 million
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 13:03 | posts: 533 | Location: Old England

The thread on BBC News made me laugh.

Quote:

The case dates back to 2007 when Opera - a Norwegian web-browser maker - complained Microsoft was stifling competition on PCs by bundling Internet Explorer with its operating system.
Stiffling competition by providing their own browser? Well how are users supposed to browse the internet which is the whole point of a PC or download other browsers?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 13:20 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

By giving them a choice to start with.
It says so in the first post.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 13:45 | posts: 376 | Location: MA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick0323 View Post
Stiffling competition by providing their own browser? Well how are users supposed to browse the internet which is the whole point of a PC or download other browsers?
Being a linux user, I find the joke "the only thing IE is good for is to download another browser" to be extra amusing since it seems to be a Windows specific problem (I think Mac users can get other browsers in the app store). MS could offer a tool to let users download what they want.


Anyways how exactly do they come up with these numbers for these anticompetitive lawsuits?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 15:24 | posts: 1,716 | Location: BBQ Capital of the World

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick0323 View Post
The thread on BBC News made me laugh.



Stifling competition by providing their own browser? Well how are users supposed to browse the internet which is the whole point of a PC or download other browsers?
i concur! it's not hard to remove IE after you choose another if you want to, maybe to deal with the EU regulators they should have shipped it with no browser. Sorry, you can't get on the internet because of some crazy fairness policies. OVER REGULATION KILLS INVENTION. oh, and over here (US) we have are own insane little regulator, Mayor Bloomberg, who now wants to ban earbud headphones. He would do great over in the EU
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 15:27 | posts: 3,779 | Location: Sweden

i don't understand why they have to be given a choice. this is retarded. did people go after the iphone for only offering safari by default? like wat?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 15:30 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
i concur! it's not hard to remove IE after you choose another if you want to, maybe to deal with the EU regulators they should have shipped it with no browser. Sorry, you can't get on the internet because of some crazy fairness policies. OVER REGULATION KILLS INVENTION. oh, and over here (US) we have are own insane little regulator, Mayor Bloomberg, who now wants to ban earbud headphones. He would do great over in the EU
Easy.
Have installers for more than one browser, of the versions available at the time of release.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:15 | posts: 1,245 | Location: Sweden

The whole thing is retarded.
Windows is a microsoft OS, its THEIR intellectual property, so why should they be forced to offer Browsers from competitors out of the box on THEIR OS?

I don't see anyone out there forcing software developers to make programs compatible with more than one brand of OS.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:17 | posts: 3,060 | Location: Denmark

OSX ships with Safari and UBUNTU with Firefox as default, how is that different than shipping Windows with IE?
There are installers available to replace any of these, and it's not much different to search and install them via IE than how the other OS's offer the choice.
Windows 8 even shows the choice right from the beginning, so should EU start a to give Apple, all Linux distributions and Android a fine for hiding the choice?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:24 | posts: 376 | Location: MA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The whole thing is retarded.
Windows is a microsoft OS, its THEIR intellectual property, so why should they be forced to offer Browsers from competitors out of the box on THEIR OS?

I don't see anyone out there forcing software developers to make programs compatible with more than one brand of OS.
Because when you're on the verge of being a monopoly, it means decisions (like making IE the only option to start with) are anticompetitive. How would you feel if you made an amazing web browser better than IE in every way imagineable and you got little to no attention because people just go with the first thing they see, which in Windows' case is IE?

Bad competition means lack of innovation, and lack of innovation means you're going to be stuck with the same broken products for years. This is why AMD dropping out of the CPU market is a big deal, because Intel's prices will skyrocket and without competition they won't try very hard to push the limits. However, AMD is a prime example of how anticompetition can destroy a company.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:25 | posts: 533 | Location: Old England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
By giving them a choice to start with.
It says so in the first post.
Yup, but Windows 7 doesn't have an app store though, Windows 8 does.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:26 | posts: 134 | Location: Freiburg, Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The whole thing is retarded.
Windows is a microsoft OS, its THEIR intellectual property, so why should they be forced to offer Browsers from competitors out of the box on THEIR OS?

I don't see anyone out there forcing software developers to make programs compatible with more than one brand of OS.
That's the same thing i thought, even though the first thing i do after a clean install is open IE and download Chrome, then unpin IE from the taskbar.

This is not retarded, this is insane and has no sense at all.

P.S. The whole competition crap reason is in fact...... total bull**** if you ask me....

Last edited by makaveli316; 03-07-2013 at 16:28.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:33 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick0323 View Post
Yup, but Windows 7 doesn't have an app store though, Windows 8 does.
See post #7
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:36 | posts: 653

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
By giving them a choice to start with.
It says so in the first post.
I thought if you buy windows you get calculator and minesweeper and browser as part of OS. Why the **** do i need os throwing me choices of calculators.. oh its browsers(as if that matters)
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:38 | posts: 13,140 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
Easy.
Have installers for more than one browser, of the versions available at the time of release.
But that would be a smart thing to do. And we know that doing the smart thing is doing it wrong.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:39 | posts: 6,937 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
Because when you're on the verge of being a monopoly, it means decisions (like making IE the only option to start with) are anticompetitive. How would you feel if you made an amazing web browser better than IE in every way imagineable and you got little to no attention because people just go with the first thing they see, which in Windows' case is IE?

Bad competition means lack of innovation, and lack of innovation means you're going to be stuck with the same broken products for years. This is why AMD dropping out of the CPU market is a big deal, because Intel's prices will skyrocket and without competition they won't try very hard to push the limits. However, AMD is a prime example of how anticompetition can destroy a company.
I'm sorry but I disagree with almost everything in this post. If Microsoft was still performing bad business practices in order to secure their monopoly, then maybe I'd agree. But they've been losing marketshare for years now. And with the recent shift to Mobile computing, they are competing in an entirely new front where they are actually significantly behind. Further, where do you draw the line with this? You could the say the same thing about someone who writes a calculator app, or a notepad, or media player, or calendar app, or a weather app. How come all these get to be bundled but the browser gets singled out? Sounds to me like the competition in browser land as a much larger say than the little guys who make all the other apps -- which to me means the entire premise isn't about what's good for the user, but what's good for the other companies.

As for Intel vs AMD, Intel did play a role with anti-competitiveness but the FTC put a stop to that. Afaic AMD dug it's own grave when it purchased ATI. And Intel has found a new competitor anyway, ARM. Where just like Microsoft they find themselves competing on a completely different field. And if Intel ever does stagnant, the same thing will happen to them that happened to companies like Blackberry. They will get beat. Someone, somewhere will see an opening to start something new and revolutionize the industry.

The only time government should step in, is like I said, when the FTC hit Intel in 2009. They were purposely cutting off access to rival chip makers in specific marketplaces. Like if Microsoft were actively preventing firefox and chrome to run, then yeah I agree, hit them with fines. But forcing them to promote competitor software is just nonsense.

Last edited by Denial; 03-07-2013 at 16:43.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:56 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaker3 View Post
I thought if you buy windows you get calculator and minesweeper and browser as part of OS. Why the **** do i need os throwing me choices of calculators.. oh its browsers(as if that matters)
You honestly need to ask this lol?
To be able to go online.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 16:59 | posts: 6,937 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
You honestly need to ask this lol?
To be able to go online.
Last time I checked Internet Explorer gets you online. Least I'm pretty sure it does, it's been a while.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:01 | posts: 6,613 | Location: Dubai

If they knowingly did not comply with the EU requirement then the fine is well deserved.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:01 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denial View Post
Last time I checked Internet Explorer gets you online. Least I'm pretty sure it does, it's been a while.
You did see post #1 ?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:06 | posts: 3,060 | Location: Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucidus View Post
If they knowingly did not comply with the EU requirement then the fine is well deserved.
Sure, but shouldn't the same rules apply to every company that ships an OS bundled with a web browser?
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:08 | posts: 9,775 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineria View Post
Sure, but shouldn't the same rules apply to every company that ships an OS bundled with a web browser?
Agreed, it has to start somewhere though.
Enough complaints about it will kick off further changes if they are merited.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:11 | posts: 6,937 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
You did see post #1 ?
I'm assuming you're referring to the OP -- if so I don't see any reference to the slippery slope this could create to other software that's bundled. Which is what quaker3 was pointing out in his post.

I mean I need a calculator to add large numbers, I use the one on my Windows PC all the time -- how come other calculator makers don't have a fair shot as to having their calculators bundled. Afaic Microsoft is abusing it's monopoly on the PC market to maintain it's monopoly on PC calculators.

Plus there are hundreds of browsers out there, why isn't Microsoft listing all of them? I just compiled my own chromium build, how come my browser isn't on there?

And yes I realize how ridiculous my statements sound but my point still stands, this is barely an issue for the user.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
Agreed, it has to start somewhere though.
Enough complaints about it will kick off further changes if they are merited.
Well its' been 9 years since the WMP one, you'd think they would start taking action on other companies by now.

Last edited by Denial; 03-07-2013 at 17:14.
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:25 | posts: 2,855

well that's one way for the EU to get some cash
   
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Default 03-07-2013, 17:29 | posts: 653

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
You honestly need to ask this lol?
To be able to go online.
you seem to miss the point pal.

Now by your logic(since you defend ms by being guilty of not offering browser choice - lol) someone should sue them for not offering alternative calculators and how about alternative notepads.
   
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