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DOOM 3 (Sikkmod) SLI compatibility bits for improved SLI scaling ??
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PowerK
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Default DOOM 3 (Sikkmod) SLI compatibility bits for improved SLI scaling ?? - 01-05-2013, 02:47 | posts: 286

Hi folks.

Recently, I started replaying DOOM 3 with Sikkmod and texture packs (Wulfen + monoxead).

With all the bells and whistles of Sikkmod enabled (HDR, soft shadows, bokeh DoF, SSAO, POM etc), visual quality is indeed quite nice. (Not amazing like some people claim it to be but overall nice visual upgrade from ugly original 2004 game).

However, I find SLI scaling is horrible in this game. Average GPU usage hovers around like 10~15% only. (This is at 2560x1600 resolution) With frame rate dips well below 60fps with all those Sikkmod options enabled.
In the end, I don't see any performance difference between single-GPU mode vs 4-GPU SLI mode.

Is there a improved/updated/better SLI compatibility bits for DOOM 3 ??

Last edited by PowerK; 01-05-2013 at 02:53.
   
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Default 01-05-2013, 16:50 | posts: 398

If I could speak on the frame dips. I personally have never gotten ideal performance with this game, modded or unmodded. I think it has to do with how the engine renders shadows. It's a real brute force method which is not very optimized. That being said, quad SLI has never scaled well. I'm not surprised you're only seeing 10-15% usage. Sad but true.
   
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Default 01-05-2013, 16:57 | posts: 1,139 | Location: Oregon

From what I understand, the game is heavily CPU bound(With the way the engine was designed at the time. Which they improved on in BFG. But they removed any option to play the game Doom 3 vanilla style with non altered maps and of course no mods). So that could be the issue.
   
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Default 01-05-2013, 17:56 | posts: 2,949

Don't know about SLI, but Doom 3 always worked great for me.

There were some issues at one point with Triple Buffering and CPU usage with SIKKMOD 1.1.

I can not afford soft-shadows though. And TrSSAA introduces lag.
Other than that - Wulfen, monoxead, PoM, SSAO... pretty much the whole deal.

 Click to show spoiler

   
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Default 01-06-2013, 01:18 | posts: 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikavelli View Post
If I could speak on the frame dips. I personally have never gotten ideal performance with this game, modded or unmodded. I think it has to do with how the engine renders shadows. It's a real brute force method which is not very optimized. That being said, quad SLI has never scaled well. I'm not surprised you're only seeing 10-15% usage. Sad but true.
Hi nikavelli
That's strange. Unmodded/vanilla DOOM3 should not have any performance issues with modern systems. After all, this is a game from 2004. I remember playing this game with AMD FX-55 CPU + ATi Radeon X800XT PE in 2004 and performance was quite good.

As for the Quad-SLI, I've been using these 690s since its launch (April/May) last year. And I've been very happy with Quad-SLI scaling and performance across the board.
From my personal experience, minimum 3-Way SLI is needed for maximum image quality at 2560x1600 resolution (and higher). (I use a single U3011 monitor).

The problem with DOOM3 (Sikkmod) I'm experiencing is that SLI scaling in this particular game. (Unmodded DOOM3 doesn't even need SLI with modern graphics cards, IMO)
Also, usually, I can choose multi-GPU configurations through game profiles in Nvidia Inspector. For example, I can choose a game to run in single-GPU mode, 2-Way SLI mode, 3-Way SLI mode or Quad-SLI mode. However, with DOOM3, it's either single-GPU mode or Quad-SLI mode. No matter how I configure DOOM3 profile in Nvidia Inspector, 2-Way nor 3-Way SLI mode doesn't work with this game.
   
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PowerK
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Default 01-06-2013, 01:22 | posts: 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBonk View Post
From what I understand, the game is heavily CPU bound(With the way the engine was designed at the time. Which they improved on in BFG. But they removed any option to play the game Doom 3 vanilla style with non altered maps and of course no mods). So that could be the issue.
Possible... since the game only uses single thread.
   
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PowerK
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Default 01-06-2013, 04:12 | posts: 286

Just did a bit of further googling.. and MrBonk seems right.
It looks like good'ol Doom3 uses the CPU heavily (animation and shadow creation are done on the CPU and it's all single threaded) so no matter what kind of graphic cards card you have you will still get lower fps with the more CPU intensive operations unfortunately. Passing it through inefficient D3 post processing (aka Sikkmod) probably means it has to be redrawn several times.

I need a 10 GHz processor for this 2004 game mod. Hehe..

Anyway, since the upgraded engine used in DOOM3 BFG eidtion is GPL'd with some of the upgrades from the BFG edition code we might come good performance boost *if* modders ever bother to port/make mods for BFG Edition.

Last edited by PowerK; 01-06-2013 at 04:20.
   
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Default 01-06-2013, 05:43 | posts: 1,139 | Location: Oregon

Yeah, well with the Sikkmod and HRT personally, even with paltry effects and 4xTrSSAA I can only get around 20FPS @1080p with my 460.

Which makes me sad, i'm sure I would maybe get better performance without TrSSAA. But with the HRT, I find that TrSSAA is needed to counteract the aliasing that comes with the higher resolution textures.

I suppose one could just use Vanilla D3 with HRT and sweetFX with an OGL wrapper (if one works with D3) to add in HDR and bloom/tonemapping at least and still have a good looking result.



Ultimately i'm hoping that now the source is out for BFG, the multithreaded model gets back ported into D3 Vanilla or they at least make BFG moddable and make it so I can play unaltered D3 levels in BFG.(Yeah I really like D3 OG)
   
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PowerK
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Default 01-06-2013, 06:24 | posts: 286

id software released the source code for the upgraded engine used in DOOM3 BFG. This means it's moddable, right ?
   
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Default 01-07-2013, 01:49 | posts: 1,139 | Location: Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
id software released the source code for the upgraded engine used in DOOM3 BFG. This means it's moddable, right ?
As long as someone else uses that code to make it so. Yes.


doom3world.org forums are really your best bet for finding information whether that will be happening any time soon.
   
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Default 01-07-2013, 22:23 | posts: 398

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
Hi nikavelli
That's strange. Unmodded/vanilla DOOM3 should not have any performance issues with modern systems. After all, this is a game from 2004. I remember playing this game with AMD FX-55 CPU + ATi Radeon X800XT PE in 2004 and performance was quite good.
Define "performance issues". Are we talking about flat out bad framerates? I was referring to "frame dips", the term you used. Small fluctuations in frame rates. Nothing to cry home about but annoying nonetheless.

Try using 8xMSAA @ 1920x1080 and see what type of FPS you get during cluttered fights or heavy smoke. I was definitely getting frame dips in the 30-45 range.
   
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Default 01-10-2013, 01:14 | posts: 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikavelli View Post
Try using 8xMSAA @ 1920x1080 and see what type of FPS you get during cluttered fights or heavy smoke. I was definitely getting frame dips in the 30-45 range.
With vanilla Doom3 (at 2560x1600 with 8xMSAA + 8xTrSSAA), frame rate is pegged at 60fps "all the time" and that's because of vsync without it god knows what I'd get. I remember running Q3A at 999fps (the counter doesn't go any higher) many years ago.
   
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PowerK
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Default 03-05-2013, 00:41 | posts: 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
Just did a bit of further googling.. and MrBonk seems right.
It looks like good'ol Doom3 uses the CPU heavily (animation and shadow creation are done on the CPU and it's all single threaded) so no matter what kind of graphic cards card you have you will still get lower fps with the more CPU intensive operations unfortunately. Passing it through inefficient D3 post processing (aka Sikkmod) probably means it has to be redrawn several times.

I need a 10 GHz processor for this 2004 game mod. Hehe..
Here's an update with TITAN SLI.

Rest of the system components are the same. With TITAN SLI, DOOM 3 sikkmod v1.2 + Wulfen 2.0+monoxead plays really well with fps pegged at 60fps.
This is at 2560x1600 with everything maxed (soft shadows, SSAO, HDR, bloom, color grading, DoF, POM etc).
   
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Default 03-29-2013, 11:30 | posts: 160 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
Here's an update with TITAN SLI.

Rest of the system components are the same. With TITAN SLI, DOOM 3 sikkmod v1.2 + Wulfen 2.0+monoxead plays really well with fps pegged at 60fps.
This is at 2560x1600 with everything maxed (soft shadows, SSAO, HDR, bloom, color grading, DoF, POM etc).
Done the same, installed HD textures, Sikkmod 1.2 etc.

What amount and sort off AA are you using? Is it correct SSSGAA can't be used? I only can use msaa+nomal ssaa. Both are on 8, but it seems a bit to much even for Titan SLI, and that's with soft shadows off. SLI is working as the perf in single GPU is cleary lower.

btw, I installed this package:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cbad...files/sikkmod/
   
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PowerK
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Default 03-29-2013, 23:56 | posts: 286

Skinner,

Indeed. That's correct. Full scene SGSSAA does not work with OpenGL API. (At least, on Nvidia cards. I'm not sure on AMD).

I used MSAA + TrSSAA at 2560x1600p. The problem with DOOM3 is that with TrSSAA enabled, image gets very blurry. (The same goes for DOOM3 BFG Edition).

I tried 4xMSAA + 4xTrSSAA and 2xMSAA + 2xTrSSAA. (Even the 2xTrSSAA was too blurry.. let alone 4xTrSSAA and/or 8xTrSSAA)
In the end, I ended up using 2xMSAA + 2xTrSSAA at 2560x1600p with image_lodbias at "-0.50" (or "-1.00")

I recall searching around to find the cause of blurry mess with TrSSAA in DOOM3. But I couldn't find any valuable info. It looks as if it's a bug in their engine.

Here're files and download links, FYI.

Sikkmod v1.2 and Wulfen v2.0 + monoxead texture pack is all you need for major visual enhancements.

Sikkmod v1.2 for DOOM 3
http://www.moddb.com/mods/sikkmod/downloads/sikkmod-v12


Official thread at Doom3World : Wulfen 2.0+Monoxead texture pack(pk4 file)
Part 1
https://hotfile.com/dl/188400332/25c...part1.rar.html

Part 2
https://hotfile.com/dl/188404892/883...part2.rar.html

Part 3
https://hotfile.com/dl/188406709/58c...part3.rar.html

Fix for monoxead floor and doorframe (You need this if you're going to use POM in Sikkmod v1.2)
https://hotfile.com/dl/188388999/846...axfix.pk4.html

Also, you should get "6th Venom HQ Mainmenu".
http://www.gamefront.com/files/files...nmenu1.00b.zip

Last edited by PowerK; 03-30-2013 at 00:03.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 00:55 | posts: 1,139 | Location: Oregon

Blurry? I've been using TRSSAA on D3 for years and it's never seemed blurred for me once. It's pretty much the only way to clean up the shader/temporal/specular aliasing in the game. (it certainly helps with the HRT)

TrSSAA+Vanilla doom 3 looks smooth like a dream.
https://i.minus.com/itZNcXmzB4owZ.png
https://imageshack.us/a/img33/1092/d...0802585258.png
https://imageshack.us/a/img824/4181/...0802582775.png
https://imageshack.us/a/img5/3531/do...0802584623.png

It does seem slightly more blurry with Sikkmod but I think that's down to Sikkmod itself like the DoF and stuff.(these are shots I took a few years back)
https://imageshack.us/a/img849/4682/...0802595921.png
https://imageshack.us/a/img838/3821/...0803020527.png
https://imageshack.us/a/img98/9039/d...0803021331.png


These are all with 4msaa+4trssaa
https://imageshack.us/a/img824/9959/...0803023874.png

Last edited by MrBonk; 03-30-2013 at 00:58.
   
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PowerK
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Default 03-30-2013, 06:19 | posts: 286

They're blurry for my liking. Nevertheless, use of TrSSAA is a MUST in DOOM3, IMO. High resolution textures (Wulfen + monoxead) introduces quite a bit of aliasing.
Here're my screenshots taken early this year.
2xMSAA + 2xTrSSAA @ 2560x1600p (image_lodbias at "-0.50")
http://i.minus.com/iRGCJLlojVwR7.png
http://i.minus.com/ibwgNMbpRWk2OE.png
http://i.minus.com/ibwdeJRZjJA79S.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBonk View Post
I've been using TRSSAA on D3 for years and it's never seemed blurred for me once. It's pretty much the only way to clean up the shader/temporal/specular aliasing in the game.
That's not entirely true.
MSAA only affects the edges of polygons. TrSSAA only targets sprites or polygons with transparent textures. Textures themselves are anti-aliased through a combination of mipmapping and AF. But dynamically generated pixel shader effects within a polygon, like specular highlights or parallax maps, don't benefit from any of this.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 06:45 | posts: 1,139 | Location: Oregon

Yes I am aware. But the stuff that is marked as transparent causes shimmering/flicker/pixel crawl on it's own without TrSSAA. Hence Temporal aliasing. Especially with the HRT.

I use other terms as a blanket statement. D3 without TrSSAA looks a lot worse than you'd think. (Imo)
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 07:02 | posts: 286

Heh, I know exactly how DOOM3 looks without TrSSAA. That's why I chose to use TrSSAA even though it introduced some blur for my liking. "image_lodbias" CVar helps quite a bit countering the blur.

On second thought, word of my choice was probably inappropriate. Perhaps, I should not call it "blur". But rather "softer" would be better suited.

Last edited by PowerK; 03-30-2013 at 07:05.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 10:25 | posts: 505 | Location: U.S.

How exactly did you get TrSSAA working with Doom 3...? Did you use a compatibility bit?

I've tried everything to get it working with this game, nothing.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 11:42 | posts: 160 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
Skinner,

Indeed. That's correct. Full scene SGSSAA does not work with OpenGL API. (At least, on Nvidia cards. I'm not sure on AMD).
Thanx, but I already have eveything installed. I have the mod from here, it's a bit modified and looks awesome:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cbad...files/sikkmod/

I have set lodbias in Doom3 itself and I use only 8xAA + 8xnormal trssaa, not SG, and it's razor sharp. Only the performance tanks a bit, but the lighting is a challenge for Crysis3

Last edited by Skinner; 03-30-2013 at 12:37.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 18:41 | posts: 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post
Skinner,

Indeed. That's correct. Full scene SGSSAA does not work with OpenGL API. (At least, on Nvidia cards. I'm not sure on AMD).

I used MSAA + TrSSAA at 2560x1600p. The problem with DOOM3 is that with TrSSAA enabled, image gets very blurry. (The same goes for DOOM3 BFG Edition).
Thanks for all this information! I'm finding TrSSAA very blurry as well. I can do 1x but if I bump it to anything greater than that I feel like I'm playing on an LCD at the wrong resolution.
   
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PowerK
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Default 03-30-2013, 23:47 | posts: 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravaged View Post
Thanks for all this information! I'm finding TrSSAA very blurry as well. I can do 1x but if I bump it to anything greater than that I feel like I'm playing on an LCD at the wrong resolution.
Yes. If you google around, you can see many people complaining about TrSSAA blur in DOOM3. The problem is noone seemed to figure out the root cause of it.
Driver bug or IdTech4 engine bug? No idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinner View Post
I have set lodbias in Doom3 itself and I use only 8xAA + 8xnormal trssaa, not SG, and it's razor sharp. Only the performance tanks a bit, but the lighting is a challenge for Crysis3
Razor sharp, huh? Your definition of razor sharp must be different from mine. Hehe.
I can understand if say "I don't find image too blury or too soft". But saying DOOM3 with TrSSAA is razor sharp is something beyond me. What kind of display are you using?

Last edited by PowerK; 03-30-2013 at 23:51.
   
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Default 03-30-2013, 23:55 | posts: 6,194 | Location: USA

Ive never had blurring from using ssaa from the nvcpl
   
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Default 03-31-2013, 05:51 | posts: 957 | Location: Bilbao, Spain

Did you try downsampling?
   
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