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Wait for Haswell cpu or not ?
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gd12
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Default Wait for Haswell cpu or not ? - 12-09-2012, 18:21 | posts: 11

Hi everyone ,

The title of the thread explains everything ... In 2013 I am going for a new build ( gaming pc .. ) .. the question is should I wait for the new socket+cpu or go for an Ivy Bridge ??? In my opinion I think I should .. but I want and another point of view ...
   
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-Tj-
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Default 12-09-2012, 18:32 | posts: 7,765 | Location: Urban`Jungle

Yes wait, Im planing too.

I was about to buy a X79 and then upgrade to IvyBridge-E, but after i saw Anadtech Haswell preview IB-E/SB-E is just not worth it.


Haswell has so many new features, the ones that really count (better single threaded operations, bigger registers, more execution branches 5 vs 7 now, new features like TSX), it would be a waste of money to upgrade/sidegrade to IvyBridge or IB-E..

check pages 5-11
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/i...architecture/5
   
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hallryu
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Default 12-12-2012, 11:46 | posts: 11,364 | Location: England

I'm not waiting. I was going to and then I got a good deal on a GA-Z77X-UP7.

Now looking for a good deal on a 3770k. I will be delidding it and replacing the crappy TIM. Not for the faint hearted, but no point in having the UP7 if I can't eek out plenty of performance from the 3770k.
   
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Matt26LFC
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Default 12-12-2012, 13:23 | posts: 2,499 | Location: UK

Not sure theres any point in waiting tbh, Haswell looks mostly about the onboard GPU, The Processor will likely be 10-20% faster than IB on average.

Of course I can't back any of this up, it just seems to be the trend these days, at least to me anyway.
   
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-Tj-
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Default 12-12-2012, 17:36 | posts: 7,765 | Location: Urban`Jungle

Oh it will be more then just 10-20%..

Yeah, it was like so up until now with each new generation - every new processor had the same 5 way execution engine (from old Conroe up to IvyBridge)..

Now with Haswell there are 7 (improved over IB with new registers),
add 56 front end registers vs 28 read/write by Nehalem/SB/IB,
2x more AVX instructions by SP/DP operations
and improved 2x faster cache per cycle (2x larger storage) and you have at least 25% if not more then 40% faster performance vs IvyBridge.. lol I bet my left limb on that
   
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Default 12-12-2012, 17:39 | posts: 4,780 | Location: Washington DC

I claim the limb when you lose it!
   
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SLI-756
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Default 12-12-2012, 17:57 | posts: 7,353 | Location: Sunny Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallryu View Post
I'm not waiting. I was going to and then I got a good deal on a GA-Z77X-UP7.

Now looking for a good deal on a 3770k. I will be delidding it and replacing the crappy TIM. Not for the faint hearted, but no point in having the UP7 if I can't eek out plenty of performance from the 3770k.
Damn you!
   
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Default 12-12-2012, 22:18 | posts: 10,472 | Location: United kingdom

Depends on wether you are happy what you are using now, If you are happy wait, If your not happy and you cant wait then upgrade.

It would be good to wait though if you can, if not upgrade.
   
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Kaerar
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Default 12-19-2012, 10:07 | posts: 194 | Location: In Oblivion's Dreams

Personally I'm happy with Sandy-E, waiting to see what happens with Broadwell next as well as how AMD comes back at this new problem for them

Haswell is just a minor increase, so I'm sticking to my 2 gen upgrade system. Whether it be on Tock's or Tick's, the advantage to upgrade has to be large enough to warrant the expense.
   
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Default 12-19-2012, 10:53 | posts: 9,769 | Location: UK

Looks like I might be getting one, my almost 2yr old 2500K got damaged by accident yesterday!
Am down to 4.3GHz at 1.35V now, can get a bit quicker, but this needs to work for a few months at least.

The cause, accidentally setting to LLC level 10 while at 1.38Vcore with the new F8 BIOS.
I was tweaking while very tired and didnt realise I'd left LLC in that state, it was humming along nicely at 4.6GHz though, no failure.
Checked voltage under stress testing in windows and it was at 1.5V, minor panic !
After lowering it again, I couldnt get stable at my old overclocks at all, even though at 4.6GHz, load temp is only 60C (water cooled).
It will make 4.5GHz with about 1.38V, 4.6GHz with 1.44V now (previously it would make 4.5GHz at 1.33V, 4.7GHz at 1.42V), but I'm done pushing this chip, its been great.

I had tested LLC level 10, months before and the voltage didnt go that high, but that was with the F7a BIOS (on Giga P67a UD4 B3 mobo - for those reading this after I've upgraded)
Turns out the new F8 BIOS pumps some extra volts out, beware!!
Back to the F7a BIOS now.


Main reason for my failure, possibly useful info:
You can quickly test how much voltage is being applied to the CPU by setting it up in the BIOS, rebooting and going straight back into the BIOS.
On the first page of the tweak menu, it tells you the voltage now going to the CPU, but this doesnt include the voltage applied under load when using LLC.
After setting LLC level 10 to see what it would do, I did some other messing about and forgot it was at level 10.
Oops.

Oh well, it had a good run and there isnt a big loss in performance


So words for the wiser guys:
Avoid memory loss.
Dont tweak before bed.
Dont go mad with LLC if you gave raised your core voltage much.
If you have my mobo, dont use the F8 BIOS !!
   
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Default 12-19-2012, 11:03 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai

It's a new architecture, might as well wait just a bit more.
   
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vejn
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Default 12-19-2012, 11:13 | posts: 730

Will it new socket have new PCI version on MBO ?
Should I upgrade or wait just a little bit.

Is it release date on April ?

I'm in Europe.

Will Ivy bridge be available on stores for 3 years from now ?
   
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Mufflore
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Default 12-19-2012, 11:20 | posts: 9,769 | Location: UK

New socket for sure.
New PCI-E version, probably not.

IB may still be for sale in 3 years but will be close to being phased out.
   
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Default 12-19-2012, 12:47 | posts: 337 | Location: India

Go ahead make ur new build waiting will be a waste of time as u will miss out all the fun of current games.
   
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alanm
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Default 12-19-2012, 16:19 | posts: 5,549

The benefits of waiting may be 10-15% better performance (over Ivy). But Haswell may not be out in April as some assume, officially its 2nd quarter which could be June.

The benefits of upgrading now is (1) an immediate and substantial performance boost to what you currently have, and (2) getting rid of the excruciating suspense and impatience as you wait several months for the upgrade.
   
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Default 12-20-2012, 09:55 | posts: 730

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/int...o_the_web.html

Knowing this, should I wait for Haswell ?
   
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Mufflore
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Default 12-20-2012, 13:03 | posts: 9,769 | Location: UK

That doesnt tell us anything useful, just basic specs unclocked, no performance.
   
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Default 12-20-2012, 13:05 | posts: 1,822

Read #15, after reading that i would not wait.June is too far from now.
   
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Default 12-20-2012, 14:52 | posts: 3,999 | Location: Australia

The real question is, when in 2013? If you mean in a few weeks time, and you have considerable time to actually make use of it properly, go Ivy Bridge. If you don't have a few hours each week currently to catch up on all the games, then wait for Haswell. The reason being, by then you may have more time to make use of it, and even if you don't, at least you will have a better feeling of waiting.

By the time Haswell is out the HD89xx Radeon cards will be out (not sure of the Geforce 7xx series, I prefer AMD GPU"S), and Windows Blue, whatever that is (Service Pack 1 for Windows 8, or Windows 8.1?...), may be out also.
   
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Default 12-27-2012, 16:02 | posts: 730

I have about 2 h per day for PC time
The thing is that I would like to run ME4 (Frostbite 2), Crysis 3, Bioshock infinite , Dragon Age Inquisition smoothly in due time.
I read that for BF3 only 10% of the engine was utilized. So, I don't even have a clue what will be like next gen Frostbite for ME4 and DA: Inq.

I'm now considering
Core i5 3350P (no integrated GPU, 3.1 Ghz per core, quad core)
2x4 GB Transcend CL11
MSI 7870 TF3 2 GB
MSI B75 E33

Guys, what do you think ?
   
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Default 12-30-2012, 14:35 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

I was in the same dilema, and wanted to ask for a little help too.

As dr.noob mentioned, I was afraid it would only release in june or latter. I'm possibly going to do my Ph.D abroad starting middle of 2015 so it would be a waste to refresh my pc just to sell it less then 6 month later, and then buy a new pc overseas.

I wanted to buy a 3770K now, since this is the oportunity I have, and since haswell haven't been released yet. After I go I think in getting a broadwell or whatever is on sale by then. Besides that, I already have a friend that want my C4F+1090T+ram, so I would be able to upgrade with minimal aditional cost.

I realy wanted to wait for haswell, but I don't know if in my case it would be the best option. Do you guys have any other sugestions?

I'll be next week in NYC, and wanted to buy the parts there, mainly the mobo and the ram. My first idea was J&R, do anyone know any other good computer parts store in manhatam?

My intention was to get a Maximus V formula, I've been using asus for a very long time and they never have let me down as far mobos go, and I had a great experience with my C4F, so for me ROG is a good idea. Other possibility is asus z77 TUF, but I have never used a TUF mobo.

What would be a good ram for the 3770K+Maximus V Formula?
I don't need those huge 32/64 GB kits, I belive 8GB would be enough, but I would like good quality, stable, and fast ram. (If possible in the Maximus V QVL, I don't want headaches with compatibility).

My real problem is that there are few ram options in both J&R and B&H physical stores, so my intention was to get ram only through newegg or amazon, since I'll be staying only between January 1st to 8th, I'm afraid it don't get there on time. Also, I have a Noctua NH-D14, so RAMs with tall heatsink are no good to me.

Any ideas for good ram with the above constraints are more than welcome.

So, thank you guys for the help
   
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---TK---
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Default 12-30-2012, 14:44 | posts: 18,524 | Location: New Jersey, USA

Look for a microcenter for a CPU, walk in prices are excellent for Intel cpus
   
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jhelsas
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Default 12-30-2012, 15:21 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by ---TK--- View Post
Look for a microcenter for a CPU, walk in prices are excellent for Intel cpus
That's quite the problem. I'm going to manhatan in vacation, so I don't realy know where to look for. The only 2 stores that I'm aware of are J&R and B&H, both that are easy to spot.

So, if you have any good adress, specialy near 71st West, I would be most thankfull.
   
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---TK---
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Default 12-30-2012, 15:33 | posts: 18,524 | Location: New Jersey, USA

http://www.microcenter.com/
you can select the store at the top of the page
   
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Default 01-02-2013, 19:32 | posts: 1,070

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Tj- View Post
Yes wait, Im planing too.

I was about to buy a X79 and then upgrade to IvyBridge-E, but after i saw Anadtech Haswell preview IB-E/SB-E is just not worth it.


Haswell has so many new features, the ones that really count (better single threaded operations, bigger registers, more execution branches 5 vs 7 now, new features like TSX), it would be a waste of money to upgrade/sidegrade to IvyBridge or IB-E..

check pages 5-11
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/i...architecture/5
The Sandy Bridge-E LGA2011 X79 / C600 series platform was released in late 2011 and we are now in 2013. Generally speaking, if you get in on a platform when its new it will likely be relevant / current longer.

It just doesn't seem to make sense IMO to buy into a platform late in the products life cycle.

However, I also wouldn't make judgments about new unproven platforms based on new technology. We hear about things like tri-channel memory and expect better performance over dual-channel,.....but does it really amount to noteworthy performance gains when it's released or just disappointment???

I'm sure there were a lot of people expecting Ivy Bridge to OC like a monster with respect to Sandy Bridge,......how did that turn out,....???

Intel basically has no comaptition on the PC platform so pushing performance is less of a goal when they are only competing with themselves. ARM is eating Intel's lunch in the ultra portable segment of the market and this is partly due to lower power consumption. Intel's new priority is power efficiency not massive desktop PC performance improvements,....
   
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