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Advise for Budget dekstop
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jhelsas
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Default Advise for Budget dekstop - 11-22-2012, 21:32 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

What would be best right now for a budget desktop, an i3-3220 (or similar), or an amd apu like A8-3870K(it can be a cheaper model if it doesn't make too much diference) ?

I haven't read about mobos/cpus since I bought mine so I'm a bit outdated, and thus I'm searching for a bit of help. Besides, I didn't searched the budget area while looking for parts to my desktop.

I know they are very diferent CPUs, but they are sellig for about the same price where I live. Also I wanted to use the integrated graphics, not to put an dedicated VGA for them. I don't know if the mobos for the two cases differs too much, which is another concern.

The idea is to build a budget desktop for the lab where my parents work, so it would be used as an oversized type machine, browsing, bibliography compiling, office suite and very basic statistics.

The idea is to keep it simple and cheap, but have enough headroom for them to feel comfortable to work, the idea is less to have a . Their current desktop is an old Pentiun 3 or 4 I belive.

The core i3 IGP would be enough for the normal use above?
I belive they don't use any heavily threaded program, so, in this case, the i3 would be the best choice?

Thanks and advance guys.
   
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thatguy91
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PSU: Enermax Platimax 750W
Default 11-22-2012, 21:43 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

The AMD APU's have much better integrated graphical performance than the Intel i3, so I would suggest the AMD route. The A8-3870K is actually a superseded model, the new A4, A6, A8, and A10 APU's have the -5xxx suffix (the -3xxx suffix is superseded). Which one of these to get depends on how much you can spend, but the A10-5800K is the highest model, and has the best integrated graphics performance of any CPU currently.

In terms of motherboard, you could get an Asrock FM2A75M-DGS (for example). You could go with an A85x chipset based board (FM2A85X Extreme4 for example), but they cost more (by about $20 or so). Since you aren't using a discrete card and aren't going to make use of 8 SATA 3 ports etc, the Asrock FM2A75M-DGS would be ideal.

The other benefit with the Asrock board is you can safely overclock it on air using the X-boost capability

Last edited by thatguy91; 11-22-2012 at 22:57.
   
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---TK---
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Default 11-22-2012, 22:40 | posts: 18,718 | Location: New Jersey, USA

If you are going to use integrated graphics go with the amd APU. if you are going to buy a discrete vga go with the Intel i3. It is a much better gaming CPU.
   
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jhelsas
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Default 11-23-2012, 21:02 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
The AMD APU's have much better integrated graphical performance than the Intel i3, so I would suggest the AMD route. The A8-3870K is actually a superseded model, the new A4, A6, A8, and A10 APU's have the -5xxx suffix (the -3xxx suffix is superseded). Which one of these to get depends on how much you can spend, but the A10-5800K is the highest model, and has the best integrated graphics performance of any CPU currently.

In terms of motherboard, you could get an Asrock FM2A75M-DGS (for example). You could go with an A85x chipset based board (FM2A85X Extreme4 for example), but they cost more (by about $20 or so). Since you aren't using a discrete card and aren't going to make use of 8 SATA 3 ports etc, the Asrock FM2A75M-DGS would be ideal.

The other benefit with the Asrock board is you can safely overclock it on air using the X-boost capability
The idea was to spend the least possible.
It wouldn't be used for anything but desktop work, no games, no multimedia, just desktop work (typing, browsing, spreadsheets, presentations & simple statistics), also no overclock.
Also, no room or need for a dedicated GPU, the most graphic intensive aplication they should be doing is something like a flash video or equivalent, nothing like photoshop.

The 5xxx APUs haven't arrive yet were I live, so an option is to wait and see the price for them.

In this case, you still sugest using an AMD APU?
The idea is much more about beeing future-proof rather and great today's performance, probably the pc that is running there right now is ~ 10 years old, I wouldn't be surprised this would last a similar amount of time.

The prices from where I livre (Brasil) to the US aren't that much equivalent, but I wished to keep the computer about US$ 500-600, considering that I have already the case(the power supply I would have to buy), monitor and peripherals.

The idea was something like (prices include tax):

PSU -- Corsair CX430 v2, or similar -> ~ US$ 70 ( I DON'T want to put some fake "nominal" cpus and simply let it blow the pc, so the least I would keep is a budget thrustworthy cpu from a known company)

HDD -- Something like an 500GB from WD, samsung or the cheapest decent that I can find --> ~ US$ 80

cooler -- a cheap cooler if it was intel, I simply can't stand the coolers that intel ship stock with their cpus, maybe for the amd too, but would have to think about --> ~ US$ 20

optical drive -- some simple dvd writer, they need to burn dvds with lots of pictures and texts, so read only drive is not suficient --> ~ US$ 20

RAM -- some value ram, or something better is there is room and is worth --> don' have any idea, but between US$ 40 - 90

CPU & Mobo --> Don't know yet, but up to something like US$ 320 for the combo, if it get's the job done, the least the better.
   
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airbud7
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Default 11-24-2012, 02:05 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhelsas View Post
CPU & Mobo --> Don't know yet, but up to something like US$ 320 for the combo, if it get's the job done, the least the better.
i3-2120=$104...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115077

ASRock H77M=$59...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157303

Total=$163.....

+

HD 7770=$129....http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102993


Total=$291...$29 left....(hd6850?)


BTW^...No apu can touch that setup....
   
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jhelsas
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Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
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PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 11-24-2012, 04:30 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by airbud7 View Post
i3-2120=$104...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115077

ASRock H77M=$59...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157303

Total=$163.....

+

HD 7770=$129....http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102993


Total=$291...$29 left....(hd6850?)


BTW^...No apu can touch that setup....

Let me explain my situation:

i3-2120=$135
http://www.boadica.com.br/pesquisa/c...in=&preco_max=

ASRock H77M=$140
http://www.boadica.com.br/pesquisa/c...in=&preco_max=

Total=$275

HD 7770=$217 (one of the cheapest HD7770 I found
http://www.boadica.com.br/pesquisa/m...in=&preco_max=

Total = $566 = past my budget

Prices above are in cash (credit cart is about ~ 10-15% higher), and for reference R$ 1 = US$ 0.48

Yes, the prices are completely inflated but that's what I have to live with, I don't like it, but that's my situation for this build.

No, there is no decent e-tailer like newegg that sells things for at least a price that is accepctable, if it's not fair. These are probably some of the best prices for non-used parts that I have access.

I don't mean to be rude, but unfortunatly I have to accept where I live, and well, try to build the best that's possible there.

Last edited by jhelsas; 11-24-2012 at 04:34.
   
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airbud7
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Default 11-24-2012, 22:37 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhelsas View Post
HD 7770=$217 (one of the cheapest HD7770 I found
http://www.boadica.com.br/pesquisa/m...in=&preco_max=

Total = $566 = past my budget

Prices above are in cash (credit cart is about ~ 10-15% higher), and for reference R$ 1 = US$ 0.48

Yes, the prices are completely inflated but that's what I have to live with, I don't like it, but that's my situation for this build.

Ouch!...$217 for a 7770, that's a high price...
   
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jhelsas
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Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 12-08-2012, 16:59 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

The 5xxx series of APU just arrived where I live, including the A10-5800, for an acceptable price here.

The A8-5600K are for ~ US$ 140-160 (tax. included) and the A10-5800K is resseling between US$ 170-225 (tax. included).

I know it's steeper than it should be, but it's still in my reach. I'll probably get some of this two or anything similar.

By the way, any FM1 mobo is compatible or I would have to get a an FM2 mobo?

the A75 chipset seems to have an FM1 socket. There isn't still almost no FM2 mobos here, so if I could live with an FM1 mobo would be very nice.

I won't overclock because the people that are going to use it have 0 knowledge of how to handle themselves if anything goes wrong.

Thanks guys for the help.
   
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StewieTech
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Videocard: MSI HD7770 [1100/1300]
Processor: i5 4670k [4.4]
Mainboard: AsRock z87 Extreme3
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PSU: OCZ ZT 550W
Default 12-08-2012, 17:12 | posts: 1,333 | Location: Portugal

There must an error on the hd7770 price, it canīt cost 217$. Here in Portugal it goes for 120€. Check other websits.
   
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naike
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PSU: Antec Quattro 850W
Default 12-08-2012, 17:43 | posts: 2,021

Would be nice to include your total budget..
It's a pretty, relative term.

Anyway, atm for budget I would build around these CPUs:
1) A10 5800k (You could also consider A6 5400k for an even lower budget)
2) Phenom II X4 955
3) i3 3220

The 955 has 4 actual cores and is not really that much slower in benchmarks and the price is just awesome.
I'd probably still go with the A10 5800 and skip on the GPU depending on what resolution you are playing at. (the integrated GPU isn't that bad)
You also want to get fast memory (4GB is okay for the games alone but I'd recommend 8GB if possible for overall performance) for integrated graphics (since it's shared), so be sure your motherboard supports that. Save on things like case, optical drive if you even need that, and use your old hdd e.g.
Don't save on the component quality (especially not PSU).

Also these AMDs overclock very nicely, don't know about intel.

Last edited by naike; 12-08-2012 at 18:17.
   
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sykozis
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Videocard: Radeon R7 240
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PSU: Unk 300watt
Default 12-08-2012, 18:17 | posts: 16,597 | Location: US East Coast

The newer APUs require FM2 motherboard.

Since you're not going to be using it for gaming, I'd recommend the A6-5400K. It should handle the usage you described reasonably well at a very reasonable price. If you'd rather a bit more "power", the A8-5600K.

You can pair either with the ASRock FM2A75M-DGS. You could even use the MSI FM2-A55M-E33 if you don't mind a chipset that's a bit dated.


@naike, he said it's not for gaming.


   
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naike
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Videocard: Asus EAH5870
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Mainboard: Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3
Memory: 4GB OCZ
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PSU: Antec Quattro 850W
Default 12-08-2012, 18:25 | posts: 2,021

Oh sorry, didn't catch that, but I would still probably go for the AMD. Even if you don't overclock.
   
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Loophole35
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Soundcard: ASUS Phoebus/onboard
PSU: Corsair HX850w/TX850w
Default 12-08-2012, 21:18 | posts: 5,419 | Location: FLA,USA

Two things to think about is even though you aren't gaming with this setup you may want to invest in some "good" ram in the 1866 range as the AMD APU's like faster ram because that is the frame buffer. Also leave room in your budget for a SSD as that will make the biggest difference in your preceived quickness of you computer. You really only need say a 60GB for the OS and common apps all your documents downloads music and videos can be setup in a HHD as a secondary drive.
   
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jhelsas
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Default 12-09-2012, 04:01 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by StewieTech View Post
There must an error on the hd7770 price, it canīt cost 217$. Here in Portugal it goes for 120€. Check other websits.
US$ 217 is not wrong, it's one of the cheapest prices for the HD7770 that I've found here, and that's the price in cash, not in credit card(put more 10%-15% over that)

The average price for the HD7770 is about US$ 250.

This is the result of putting 100% profit margin over 70%-110% import taxes for eletronics. There is a lot of pressure to get this import taxes down, but it's no easy task. It was worse before, now there are some products with reasonable prices, not so long ago, everything was as overpriced as the HD7770.

Why do you think that half of my computer came with me in my luggage on the plane? Do you think I would pay US$ 500 for a crosshair IV formula? Or US$ 800 for an HD7970(today's price, because it was release here for about US$ 1200)?

Everyone if talking about Brasil, but sincerely, living here have lot's of advantages, but you have to live with this kind of jokes, besides many more serius issues. With this kind of price, the government complain that millions of brasilians go abroad to buy and so much of our inner market suffers because of it. What I say is that I won't suffer to feed someone else's greed.

Just as an example of how ridiculous things can get here, the release price of the Playstation 3, which were ~ US$ 1k in the US, was US$ 3k here. Many people simply took the US$ 2k, passed a week in NY or Orlando, bought the PS3 and lots of other things and returned home....

(AH, I forgot to mention, most console games ressell between US$ 80 and 150, not the console, the games, but thankfully this is changing)

---------

(all the prices include all taxes, these are final prices)

My max budget is US$ 700, preferably lower. The original budget was US$ 500, but since than my parent's said it's ok to go up to US$ 700, but the least the best. No gaming. The idea is to get a future-proof allrounder for desktop work, and it should withstand between 6 to 10 years without upgrade, and still be usable, not great but usable. The present pcs that are there right know have that age.

I don't need too much power, but what I do need is that It should be fairly future-proof. Also, no need for overclock, the people that are going to use the computer either have too much fear to install a program (even an next-next-next-finish program), or won't have the permission to do anything that need an administrator account.

There shouldn't be too much music (if any), and certanly there won't be any videos. Almost surely, text (pdf, MS word), spreadsheets, some ppt presentations, and some photos, mainly for papers.

I'm not finding the X4 955 to sell here anymore, my options for a phenom X4 are the 960T and the 965, both are about US$ 150 right now.

I can get a decent AM3 mobo for about US$ 100, e.g. the MSI 880GMA-E35. I would have to live with the IGP of the mobo, which should probably suffice.

The core i3 2120 and 3220 are resseling for ~ US$ 160, but the H77 mobos are a bit steep. As an example, GA-H61M-S1 if for about US$ 70, but the GA-H77-DS3H (rev. 1.0) is about US$ 140.

The A6 5400K is about US$ 80, if it does the job, it's great for the price. The FM2 mobos are still arriving, so there aren't many, the only one I could confirm is the GA-F2A85X-UP4, resseling for US$ 250

The cheapest 1866 ram kit I've found is the F3-14900CL9D-4GBXM for about US$ 90. Most of them are over US$ 125, for a resonable price only Cas 9 ram unfortunatly. I belive 1866 is a no go right now, but 1600 would be feasable.

As for an SSD, I belive there is no need. No one is keeping nothing important and there is no realy tough to load program besides the OS. If you belive it's worth it, the easyest to find 60GB SSD is the Kingston SV200S37A/64G for about US$ 110 followed by Intel SSDSC2CT060A3K5 and Corsair CSSD-F60GB3-BK for about US$ 160.

Thanks everybody for the help. I know this is an uncommon request due to the restrictions that I have to face but I'm very thankfull that you are trying to help as much as you can.

p.s.:
I'm not idiot enough to save on PSU quality, not any component. I'm building a budget desktop for my parent's work, not a cheapo time-bomb, which is what you buy in most supermarkets or other eletronic stores here.

The absolute minimum PSU i'm got to put is something like a corsair CX430v2 or CX500v2. If I have the chance, I'll put a seasonic.

Still, thanks for reminding me

edits: i'm mostly fixing typos

Last edited by jhelsas; 12-09-2012 at 04:15.
   
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Loophole35
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Videocard: 670 FTW Sli H2O/780 TFIV
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Soundcard: ASUS Phoebus/onboard
PSU: Corsair HX850w/TX850w
Default 12-10-2012, 03:39 | posts: 5,419 | Location: FLA,USA

Setting up a secondary hdd for high volume stuff is easy all you do is load the os with only the ssd installed to guaranty that you load it on the right drive (don't laugh you know everyone is always afraid of doing that) once it's loaded and up to date install a "storage" hdd format it in device manager then "move" your user folders to the storage drive (typically it will be drive F then all downloads music video pictures and documents will be on the HDD instead of taking up space on the SSD the computer will automatically locate the folders when saving and no extra steps need to be taken. The reason I say to move the user folders to the HDD is let's face it that is where all of your space is consumed anyways.

In the end though the SSD is not a nessesity it's just a nice touch that does cut down on boot time and apps/programs do open much faster. If its not in the budget no worries there is nothing at all wrong with a 7200 rpm hdd.

Edit: on the CPU side of things you may be able to save some coin going with a Llano based APU and a FM1 board the GPU thing aside there is not a major difference in the CPU performance. You should still be able to get ahold of a A6 3500 or A6 3650. For office tasks and even 1080p video the 3500 igp is more than enough. You could even run a 2560x1600 monitor on that setup for normal PC related tasks.

Last edited by Loophole35; 12-11-2012 at 00:31.
   
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jhelsas
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Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 01-26-2013, 14:55 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
Setting up a secondary hdd for high volume stuff is easy all you do is load the os with only the ssd installed to guaranty that you load it on the right drive (don't laugh you know everyone is always afraid of doing that) once it's loaded and up to date install a "storage" hdd format it in device manager then "move" your user folders to the storage drive (typically it will be drive F then all downloads music video pictures and documents will be on the HDD instead of taking up space on the SSD the computer will automatically locate the folders when saving and no extra steps need to be taken. The reason I say to move the user folders to the HDD is let's face it that is where all of your space is consumed anyways.

In the end though the SSD is not a nessesity it's just a nice touch that does cut down on boot time and apps/programs do open much faster. If its not in the budget no worries there is nothing at all wrong with a 7200 rpm hdd.

Edit: on the CPU side of things you may be able to save some coin going with a Llano based APU and a FM1 board the GPU thing aside there is not a major difference in the CPU performance. You should still be able to get ahold of a A6 3500 or A6 3650. For office tasks and even 1080p video the 3500 igp is more than enough. You could even run a 2560x1600 monitor on that setup for normal PC related tasks.
Thanks for the advice.

An secondary HD wasn't necessary because they said that they would do the storage in an external WD 1TB.

In the end, I settled in a US$ 700, A10-5800K cpu with an a85 gigabyte mobo, geil memory (I belive it was 4 GB), an caviar blue 500GB hdd and stock cooling. For the psu, the seller forced an 550W cougar psu, I haven't heard about it, just hope it's ok, I wasn't going to create a commotion since my father wanted the issued solved asap.

I sticked with the 5800K basicaly for "future-proffness", this pc will probably have to work for the next ~ 10 years, so, the best thing I've found on the budget was that, I hope it withstand the test of time.

The monitor is going to proably be 1600x900, an TN monitor from LG (E2060T) that's available back hope.
   
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jhelsas
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Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 02-03-2013, 01:59 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

I forgot to install the AHCI pre-install drivers on Win8.

Do I realy need them? If I don't, I'll left them be, because I only realised after install almost everything on the machine while downloading the drivers.
   
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  (#18)
Agent-A01
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Videocard: GTX Titan H20 1472/7600
Processor: i7 5820K 4.7GHz H20
Mainboard: ASUS X99-A
Memory: Crucial 4x4GB 2666
Soundcard: Xonar Phoebus-PC360/HD598
PSU: SeaSonic Platinum-1000
Default 02-03-2013, 02:15 | posts: 6,790 | Location: USA

nope. you can install them through device manager
   
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Loophole35
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Videocard: 670 FTW Sli H2O/780 TFIV
Processor: 2600k@4.8 H2O/2500k@4.5
Mainboard: P8Z68-V PRO/P8Z77-V
Memory: corsair ddr3 8GB@1866
Soundcard: ASUS Phoebus/onboard
PSU: Corsair HX850w/TX850w
Default 02-03-2013, 13:30 | posts: 5,419 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhelsas View Post
Thanks for the advice.

An secondary HD wasn't necessary because they said that they would do the storage in an external WD 1TB.

In the end, I settled in a US$ 700, A10-5800K cpu with an a85 gigabyte mobo, geil memory (I belive it was 4 GB), an caviar blue 500GB hdd and stock cooling. For the psu, the seller forced an 550W cougar psu, I haven't heard about it, just hope it's ok, I wasn't going to create a commotion since my father wanted the issued solved asap.

I sticked with the 5800K basicaly for "future-proffness", this pc will probably have to work for the next ~ 10 years, so, the best thing I've found on the budget was that, I hope it withstand the test of time.

The monitor is going to proably be 1600x900, an TN monitor from LG (E2060T) that's available back hope.
That setup should work good and should last for a long time. My mom still uses her desktop that she got about 11 years ago its a p4 with 512MB ram (thing was a beast when she got it).
   
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jhelsas
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Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 02-04-2013, 15:06 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent-A01 View Post
nope. you can install them through device manager
How do I do that?
   
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jhelsas
Master Guru
 
Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 02-04-2013, 19:24 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro



Are this voltage readings normal(the +12V, 5V and 3.3 V)?
Is this some problem of the software or is this realy a problem of the PSU?
   
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lehtv
Ancient Guru
 
Videocard: Sapphire 7950 3GB
Processor: i7-3770K @ 4.2 GHz
Mainboard: Asus P8Z77-V
Memory: 2x4GB Samsung 1333
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX + SH PC-350
PSU: Seasonic X-660
Default 02-04-2013, 19:33 | posts: 3,094

Those voltage readings aren't correct. Your PC wouldn't be powered on if they were. Software readings aren't really to be trusted in the first place. HX850 has more than adequate voltage control, you don't need to worry about that.
   
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jhelsas
Master Guru
 
Videocard: PC HD 7970
Processor: i5-3570K + NH-D14
Mainboard: Maximus V Formula
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 996991
Soundcard: Asus Xonar STX
PSU: Corsair HX850
Default 02-04-2013, 20:23 | posts: 387 | Location: Rio de Janeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
Those voltage readings aren't correct. Your PC wouldn't be powered on if they were. Software readings aren't really to be trusted in the first place. HX850 has more than adequate voltage control, you don't need to worry about that.
This readings aren't from my computer, this a from a pc I help assemble for my father's work. This is the PSU used in it.

http: // www . hardwareheaven . com/reviews/1644/pg1/cougar-powerx-550w-power-supply-review-introduction.html

(remove the spaces, aparently guru3d didn't like this link)

I realy wanted to put at least a Corsair CX, but as I explained above, it wasn't all in my power.
   
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lehtv
Ancient Guru
 
Videocard: Sapphire 7950 3GB
Processor: i7-3770K @ 4.2 GHz
Mainboard: Asus P8Z77-V
Memory: 2x4GB Samsung 1333
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX + SH PC-350
PSU: Seasonic X-660
Default 02-04-2013, 20:41 | posts: 3,094

The readings are still incorrect and the voltages are probably just fine, like the hardwareheaven article shows. More results at legitreviews
   
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airbud7
Ancient Guru
 
airbud7's Avatar
 
Videocard: HIS HD 6870
Processor: I3-2120
Mainboard: ASRock H61icafe
Memory: 8GB G.SKILL DDR3 1333
Soundcard: Xonar DX
PSU: PC Power&Cooling S61EPS
Default 02-04-2013, 21:13 | posts: 2,881 | Location: Evans Ga,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
The readings are still incorrect and the voltages are probably just fine, like the hardwareheaven article shows. More results at legitreviews
Agree^....+12v = 8.016v....?
   
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