Why Windows 8 will wreck what Microsoft has built for the mainstream audience.

[pixelsmack]

I use Windows 7 professionally in the work environment and have been a Windows users since '95. I generally always engage in the pre-releases MS offers for new OS's. However, since Windows Vista, I have preferred OSX and Macs for home use.

I'm really glad I use OSX. I just fired up the latest Windows 8 Pre-Release under Parallels emulation in OSX and I can tell you, Microsoft is in trouble.

The business world won't bother. They will stay with XP and Win7. No, the area where Microsoft is going to completely fall down will be the mainstream user base.

The "power users", the true nerds, simply won't install it. It is so unfathomably unintuitive and different they'll stay with Windows 7. The rest of the planet will experience such frustrations that stores are going to see return rates so high, records will be set. Mark my words when it goes live, this WILL HAPPEN.

MS has made the mistake of so drastically altering the Windows default environment, and doing without proper assistance, that people will be lost. Support calls are going to be a thing of legend when this hits. Even some one like myself who is a power user (and won't bother with it) am baffled at the contradictory environment they've built. The removal of basic tools/features in order to battle such contradictions is mind boggling.

One example...
"You need to go to the user panel and sign out your local user and sign in with a Microsoft online one in order to enjoy the full features."

First, why wasn't this addressed at initial user creation? Why not give us the option?

Next, they tell you this option is in the Control Panel for users. This panel does not exist. Going back to the classic "Windows" environment there is no Control Panel, there is no Start Menu. You are offered NOTHING on how to get there. Going back to the default desktop, the new "tiles" based interface, it does have a "People" tile, but it does not let you create or alter users. I did manage to use that "tile" and sign in to my Hotmail/MS/XBL account but that's not what Windows 8 wants. The logout screen displays your user, but no creation options here as well. Also, we are given no information on how to even get to this! I just guessed by smashing the "Windows Key" on my keyboard.

It gets worse the more you use it. The new "tile" interface begs for XB360 controller support, it doesn't have it. (maybe at release along with Kinect?) You have to use the key/mouse. (OKAY FINE) I only mention this as you are bombarded with "XB Live" tiles. That is moot though. There are so many larger issues at hand here, it's a disaster.

Mock OSX for it's "dumbed down" approach but at least it makes sense. Windows 8 is not the new Vista as some have said. It's something entirely more devolved.

It is true OSX is doing the same, pushing iOS's tablet interface in to OSX. They are, but they are doing it in a way that is far more logical. OSX doesn't default to it, OSX doesn't REMOVE or HIDE old features. They let you chose and adapt. I do not understand WHO at Microsoft thinks this is a good idea!

Stay with Win7 guys. Maybe MS will fix their $#%#! with Windows 9. That is if we've not all switched to next-gen consoles and Macs by then.

[91LudeSiT]

We've been running the preview at work to test it and IE10 with our software. I agree with you 100%, I don't understand what the heck is going on at MS. I sure hope they fail like they did with ME and vista and windows 9 returns to a more normal desktop environment. I hate to see what windows server 2014 is going to look like...

[pixelsmack]

Well, nice to know I am not alone here.

[IcE]

So basically the same thing that was going to happen with every Windows release ever.

[pixelsmack]

Originally Posted by ice445

So basically the same thing that was going to happen with every Windows release ever.

Not quite. I think in the end it will vet in the special category of failed Windows releases like, Windows ME and Vista. Which saw some of the quickest turn arounds from Microsoft for the next OS, as well as the least amount of customer adoption.

[IcE]

Vista's failures were less of failures of the OS and more of failures of people trying to use printers and cameras from 1991. Microsoft also kind of lied about the system requirements. It's just progress. It always bites MS in the ass if they wait too long between versions and don't do new things. It's highly unlikely they aren't going to address these issues with desktop mode before the final release. Not to mention these problems are very very minor at the end of the day. Inconveniences at best. I consider myself a geek and still want to take a crack at Windows 8 despite the focus on a tablet interface.

[pixelsmack]

"It's highly unlikely they aren't going to address these issues with desktop mode before the final release."

Well...I hope for those that walk in to Wal-Mart or Best Buy and purchase a new system, you're right. And "take a crack?" So you haven't tried it yet? Please try it first, then comment. I think you'll see why I am worried.

And I never want my OS to be inconvenient.

[IcE]

Originally Posted by pixelsmack

"It's highly unlikely they aren't going to address these issues with desktop mode before the final release."

Well...I hope for those that walk in to Wal-Mart or Best Buy and purchase a new system, you're right. And "take a crack?" So you haven't tried it yet? Please try it first, then comment. I think you'll see why I am worried.

And I never want my OS to be inconvenient.

I'm too lazy to try it right now but from what I've seen and read it's not that bad. People are complaining about minor things like the lack of a start button and the inability to create tile folders.

[Lycronis]

Well, the most important thing to remember is that MS isn't targeting Win8 at the business sector at all. This is meant purely for the consumer market and I honestly think it going to do MUCH better than many of the "power users" think it will. Powers users are a very tiny portion of the market and basically insignificant in the grander scheme of things. And honestly, if you really take the time to dig into Win8, there is a lot of great changes under the hood that are not readily apparent. Also, there are still many features not yet implemented in Win8 that will be there for launch, like enhanced tool-tips, tutorials on how to navigate the new interface, etc. Sure, it looks like it's going to be a big change from what we are used to, but I believe it's a necessary step to take because of the way the industry is changing. Perhaps you should stop trying to make a final judgement and proclaim Win8 a failure until it actually launches.

[IPlayNaked]

Your first main asseration; power users won't install...Well, I will. I definitely will, in fact, I've been running it on my office machine as well.

Next, Microsoft is likely resigned to somewhat poor business sales this time around, this has been a developing thing that businesses seem to, for the most part, skip over windows releases. Windows XP was hugely popular in business, and then vista was largely skipped. Windows 7 is also quite popular, and I feel that Windows 8 will largely be skipped. It has little to do with the design, and more to do with what just makes sense; it's costly to upgrade to every windows release.

[k1net1cs]

Though that $15 upgrade from Windows 7 might appeal to some; only on OEM desktops with Windows 7 installed IIRC.

[Teko]

Originally Posted by ice445

I'm too lazy to try it right now but from what I've seen and read it's not that bad. People are complaining about minor things like the lack of a start button and the inability to create tile folders.

You actually are able to create tile folders, you have to pin your folder to the start screen just like anything else. Right click the folder and "pin to start".

Originally Posted by Lycronis

Well, the most important thing to remember is that MS isn't targeting Win8 at the business sector at all. This is meant purely for the consumer market...

I have to disagree with this. I think Windows 8 was developed with business environments in mind. For one, I think one reason for the metro start screen is because Microsoft wants to offer a similar experience from tablets to desktop to phones and eventually offer a "seamless" transfer of work device to device. I personally think having the start screen as the default screen will be a success for MS in the long run. I just think it will take the right apps to boost the potential. There's certain business data that can be easily shared or fed through basic metro apps to make for easy access. In some cases these can be complete replacements for your classic desktop app, but in most I see it being used as a "quick view" option --- this is a plus for your on the go employees with that regularly work with & present documents, presentations, data, etc.

Just because a full screen start menu shows up by default doesn't mean you were robbed of your classic "desktop environment", it's all still there and just as accessible. I personally love the new navigational features and have found the experience quote smooth. Once you start treating the "Metro Start Screen" as a "start menu" and learn the basic nav features of Windows 8, I think it will change yours and other opinions as well --- besides, the metro start screen is still a start menu anyway, they just made it full screen for a unified look across platforms.

Also here are some W8 features that are business focused:
-Windows To Go
-SecureBoot
-Additional User State Migration Tool updates

[Arctucas]

I absolutely abhor the Immersive UI.

I, for one, will not be using Windows 8.

And even though I have a Technet subscription, I have such utter disdain for the the new UI, I will not even bother downloading it.

[sykozis]

Originally Posted by pixelsmack

Not quite. I think in the end it will vet in the special category of failed Windows releases like, Windows ME and Vista. Which saw some of the quickest turn arounds from Microsoft for the next OS, as well as the least amount of customer adoption.

Ummm...Windows Whistler(XP) was in alpha testing before WindowsME was released. WindowsXP even had a projected release prior to Windows2000 or ME being released. WindowsME was nothing but an update of Windows98, same as 98se before it. MS didn't push the release of XP up at all.

Vista was skipped by most businesses due to software and hardware compatibility issues. My former employer was forced to stay with Windows2K/XP due to the software provider not releasing updated software or drivers compatible with Vista. In fact, some of the software my former employer uses wasn't even updated for Windows7 until after SP1 was released...the rest still hasn't been updated.

[F1refly]

Business's are just now starting to use W7. They never have just swapped from version to version. They wouldn't upgrade to W8 no matter what. MS knows this and is not focusing on business sector atm rather they need the mass consumer base atm as they are losing the mobile market.

Second, Vista was a financial success...wether you like to hate it or not, technically it wasn't a failure...it only failed in the enthusiast perception.

Third, windows 8 will still be a financial success as well. The only real issue is not from windows, but from users inability, uniwllingness to adapt. W9 will just be another improvement over W8.

OSX is doing more of what Linux Mint is doing...a rather half way point in changing over from old to new where as Ubuntu and Fedora is basically a drastic change to new much like MS. Eventually, Mint and OSX will make a more full transition at some point as well.

These new UI's are here to stay. you can adapt later and percieve it ever so slowly and eventually or cold turkey now....in the end, its all irrelevant. Only the enthusiasts between the Mac's, PC's and Linux are so stubborn to maintain the usage patterns their comfortable with but will do so at some point regardless in some form or fashion.
The mass general consumers will have no real issues with it. Especially the youth. Those that are already comfortable with the mobile devices will be as comfortable with these UI's on the desktop....for those fewer and fewer who even still use the traditional desktop.
The next wave will be docking laptops that can function as desktops side by side with monitors on desks and living room PC's. MS has big plans for kinect in the living room with this type of setup in mind, Apple meanwhile is looking into similar that monitors where your eyes look...that product that was at CES, i forget how it worked.
Switching between full screen apps will transition into quick and simplicity of gestures.

besides, what would a W8 product that has the W7 UI really have to offer you guys anyway? The same as it does with Metro...next to nothing. You'll be using the same apps, the same games with your same mouse and KB without ever utilizing its features. So your not really out of anything atm.
Instead what we have is a group who's direction is going a different if not archaic path than the direction that the newer OS's..and to similar extent, devices, are going. Expect some interesting trackpad features and gestures for upcomming laptops that make some transitions easier for those that learn them.

btw, say goodbye to Aero glass completely in the final release.

[sykozis]

Originally Posted by F1refly

Business's are just now starting to use W7. They never have just swapped from version to version. They wouldn't upgrade to W8 no matter what. MS knows this and is not focusing on business sector atm rather they need the mass consumer base atm as they are losing the mobile market.

Second, Vista was a financial success...wether you like to hate it or not, technically it wasn't a failure...it only failed in the enthusiast perception.

Third, windows 8 will still be a financial success as well. The only real issue is not from windows, but from users inability, uniwllingness to adapt. W9 will just be another improvement over W8.

OSX is doing more of what Linux Mint is doing...a rather half way point in changing over from old to new where as Ubuntu and Fedora is basically a drastic change to new much like MS. Eventually, Mint and OSX will make a more full transition at some point as well.

These new UI's are here to stay. you can adapt later and percieve it ever so slowly and eventually or cold turkey now....in the end, its all irrelevant. Only the enthusiasts between the Mac's, PC's and Linux are so stubborn to maintain the usage patterns their comfortable with but will do so at some point regardless in some form or fashion.
The mass general consumers will have no real issues with it. Especially the youth. Those that are already comfortable with the mobile devices will be as comfortable with these UI's on the desktop....for those fewer and fewer who even still use the traditional desktop.
The next wave will be docking laptops that can function as desktops side by side with monitors on desks and living room PC's. MS has big plans for kinect in the living room with this type of setup in mind, Apple meanwhile is looking into similar that monitors where your eyes look...that product that was at CES, i forget how it worked.
Switching between full screen apps will transition into quick and simplicity of gestures.

besides, what would a W8 product that has the W7 UI really have to offer you guys anyway? The same as it does with Metro...next to nothing. You'll be using the same apps, the same games with your same mouse and KB without ever utilizing its features. So your not really out of anything atm.
Instead what we have is a group who's direction is going a different if not archaic path than the direction that the newer OS's..and to similar extent, devices, are going. Expect some interesting trackpad features and gestures for upcomming laptops that make some transitions easier for those that learn them.

btw, say goodbye to Aero glass completely in the final release.

All I got to say about this is....


Well said.

I love Gnome3.... I have a hard time getting around it, but simply love the UI.
Metro, in some aspects, is similar to Gnome3. Sure, there are aspects I dislike about it and at current, I have no intent to upgrade when W8 is released, but I will upgrade in due time. Fact is, we can't speak for the vast majority of consumers. We're enthusiasts and a very small portion of the market. MS really has little reason to be concerned about what enthusiasts want from W8. Their concern is what the majority of users want and will accept. Which is advancements. A reason to upgrade. They don't want more of the same like they got with Win9x. For "power users" the lack of a start menu isn't a "make or break" feature. If you're a "power user" the start menu should be among the least accessed "features" of Windows.

[lucidus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boT...feature=relmfu

Windows 8 just "gets in the way" and slows you down unless you happen to own a windows 8 powered tablet.

I installed ME back in the day and used Vista x64 since launch until 7's release .. this will be the first time I'm skipping a version of windows

[tsunami231]

Originally Posted by pixelsmack

I use Windows 7 professionally in the work environment and have been a Windows users since '95. I generally always engage in the pre-releases MS offers for new OS's. However, since Windows Vista, I have preferred OSX and Macs for home use.

I'm really glad I use OSX. I just fired up the latest Windows 8 Pre-Release under Parallels emulation in OSX and I can tell you, Microsoft is in trouble.

The business world won't bother. They will stay with XP and Win7. No, the area where Microsoft is going to completely fall down will be the mainstream user base.

The "power users", the true nerds, simply won't install it. It is so unfathomably unintuitive and different they'll stay with Windows 7. The rest of the planet will experience such frustrations that stores are going to see return rates so high, records will be set. Mark my words when it goes live, this WILL HAPPEN.

MS has made the mistake of so drastically altering the Windows default environment, and doing without proper assistance, that people will be lost. Support calls are going to be a thing of legend when this hits. Even some one like myself who is a power user (and won't bother with it) am baffled at the contradictory environment they've built. The removal of basic tools/features in order to battle such contradictions is mind boggling.

One example...
"You need to go to the user panel and sign out your local user and sign in with a Microsoft online one in order to enjoy the full features."

First, why wasn't this addressed at initial user creation? Why not give us the option?

Next, they tell you this option is in the Control Panel for users. This panel does not exist. Going back to the classic "Windows" environment there is no Control Panel, there is no Start Menu. You are offered NOTHING on how to get there. Going back to the default desktop, the new "tiles" based interface, it does have a "People" tile, but it does not let you create or alter users. I did manage to use that "tile" and sign in to my Hotmail/MS/XBL account but that's not what Windows 8 wants. The logout screen displays your user, but no creation options here as well. Also, we are given no information on how to even get to this! I just guessed by smashing the "Windows Key" on my keyboard.

It gets worse the more you use it. The new "tile" interface begs for XB360 controller support, it doesn't have it. (maybe at release along with Kinect?) You have to use the key/mouse. (OKAY FINE) I only mention this as you are bombarded with "XB Live" tiles. That is moot though. There are so many larger issues at hand here, it's a disaster.

Mock OSX for it's "dumbed down" approach but at least it makes sense. Windows 8 is not the new Vista as some have said. It's something entirely more devolved.

It is true OSX is doing the same, pushing iOS's tablet interface in to OSX. They are, but they are doing it in a way that is far more logical. OSX doesn't default to it, OSX doesn't REMOVE or HIDE old features. They let you chose and adapt. I do not understand WHO at Microsoft thinks this is a good idea!

Stay with Win7 guys. Maybe MS will fix their $#%#! with Windows 9. That is if we've not all switched to next-gen consoles and Macs by then.

cause there trying to make OS that will work for PC/laptops and phone all in one. that really bad mistake. win8 will be the new ME/Vista

[thatguy91]

One word.
Classicshell
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

Download it, install it, enjoy

[lucidus]

Originally Posted by thatguy91

One word.
Classicshell
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

Download it, install it, enjoy

That's nice but I wish we didn't have to resort to hacks! They should've left the choice in like they did with XP & Vista (classic looks & start menus).

This start menu removal reeks Steve Ballmer .. lol .. developers developers developers .....

[TruMutton_200Hz]

Originally Posted by thatguy91

One word.
Classicshell
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

Download it, install it, enjoy

Yeah, guys... quit crying already. Ivo Belchev will fix it!

[TruMutton_200Hz]

Originally Posted by lucidus

That's nice but I wish we didn't have to resort to hacks! They should've left the choice in like they did with XP & Vista (classic looks & start menus).

This start menu removal reeks Steve Ballmer .. lol .. developers developers developers .....

Not hacks! Ivo is a respected member of sevenforums and he has been credited with developer status.

[lucidus]

MS has reportedly removed most of the start menu code from the current and final builds of Win8, doesn't that make it a hack?

[Mikedogg]

Who cares, the point is at least we get the classic shell back.

[lucidus]

Yeah .. but I'm not really comfortable with the thought that MS can easily disable it too.