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  (#151)
Agent-A01
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Default 04-30-2012, 22:03 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
He is running silent tho.
yeah i saw but my noctua 1200s are silent.
   
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  (#152)
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Default 04-30-2012, 22:03 | posts: 155 | Location: TechLand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sash View Post
My retail CPU is an engineering sample, wtf INTEL????



no one reviewd a 3770 locked cpu (non K) so i dont know what to compare the steppings with!
Don't worry its bugged program,

this I7 3820 shows the same
http://cdn.overclock.net/6/62/62d2e8d0_4.625oc_01.jpeg

http://www.overclock.net/t/1221208/i...#post_17110771
   
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  (#153)
BlackZero
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Default 04-30-2012, 22:48 | posts: 8,109 | Location: United Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent-A01 View Post
mate you get just about exact same temps as me at 4.9 and im only using air cooler with two 1200rpm noctua fans??
ok.. this is without fans on silent so lets see you get same temps, it's only a 5 minute run.


5Ghz, prime95 small fft

 Click to show spoiler

   
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  (#154)
Agent-A01
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Default 04-30-2012, 22:53 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

only have a 5ghz HT stable, and i hit high 70s for that, dont feel like making a no HT and trying to find the lowest stable voltage, tedious and boring.

make a comparison of your current 4.8 with ht with fans on low and high. i suppose i could put my 2 2500rpm nexus panaflo120mmx35mm fans on there but that is noisy as hell

Last edited by Agent-A01; 04-30-2012 at 22:56.
   
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  (#155)
---TK---
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Default 04-30-2012, 23:06 | posts: 18,250 | Location: New Jersey, USA

what voltage you running at 5.0?^^
   
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  (#156)
BlackZero
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Default 04-30-2012, 23:27 | posts: 8,109 | Location: United Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent-A01 View Post
only have a 5ghz HT stable, and i hit high 70s for that, dont feel like making a no HT and trying to find the lowest stable voltage, tedious and boring.

make a comparison of your current 4.8 with ht with fans on low and high. i suppose i could put my 2 2500rpm nexus panaflo120mmx35mm fans on there but that is noisy as hell

You said you could match my temps with your aircooling setup, I asked you to prove it with a mere 5 minute run, which you couldn't.. so either post proof or please don't post anything.
   
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  (#157)
Agent-A01
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Default 04-30-2012, 23:34 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

iirc under load 1.45~

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackZero View Post
You said you could match my temps with your aircooling setup, I asked you to prove it with a mere 5 minute run, which you couldn't.. so either post proof or please don't post anything.
i can post temps with your 4.9 on the last page, but im not going to spend the time trying to find a stable 5.0 no ht
   
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  (#158)
---TK---
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Default 05-01-2012, 00:39 | posts: 18,250 | Location: New Jersey, USA

just lower you vcore a couple steps. ht needs about 2-3 steps more vcore for the same cpu speed as no ht on my rig everything else is the same on my rig
   
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  (#159)
IPlayNaked
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Default 05-01-2012, 00:43 | posts: 6,559

Double

Last edited by IPlayNaked; 05-01-2012 at 00:47.
   
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  (#160)
IPlayNaked
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Default 05-01-2012, 00:47 | posts: 6,559

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dude View Post
Good Newegg vid confirming what other reviews have found regarding oc'ing and temps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkGQ...&feature=g-u-u

JJ says don't use P95!
How the **** does prime damage a CPU? I mean, as long as cooling is sufficient.
   
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  (#161)
Agent-A01
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Default 05-01-2012, 00:58 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ---TK--- View Post
just lower you vcore a couple steps. ht needs about 2-3 steps more vcore for the same cpu speed as no ht on my rig everything else is the same on my rig
not so for me. 4.8 ht i require offset of .085 iirc and no ht i can run .055offset. for 5.2ghz(max benched ive done) i needed like .060 less for no ht.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPlayNaked View Post
How the **** does prime damage a CPU? I mean, as long as cooling is sufficient.
he didnt say it would kill it if you had a water cooling. he said it could if temps go really high. but voltage doesnt kill CPUs , it only degrades them and the cpu will shut down far before it gets to the point of damaging itself usually.. Amperage is what would kill a CPU, so maybe hes talking about drawing too much amps through the CPU, not sure.

Last edited by Agent-A01; 05-01-2012 at 01:00.
   
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  (#162)
sykozis
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Default 05-01-2012, 01:07 | posts: 16,409 | Location: US East Coast

Amperage increases with voltage (unless you manage to decrease wattage at the same time). But, technically, you're right. Amperage does damage, not voltage....or course, if you look at it from the thermal point, increase in voltage = increase in temperature which can cause damage due to components expanding and contracting excessively (this is what causes light bulbs to "blow out")


   
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Default 05-01-2012, 01:25 | posts: 7,004

Quote:
Originally Posted by isidore View Post
Question for you my friend, why in Gods name did you upgraded to the i7 3770 and even worse to a non K?
I wanted to but the high temp and no significant increase in performance over the 2600/2700k made me stop and think.

My logic was this: grab a 2700k for another 2 years until Haswell gets out or AMD brings something new. And i can OC this 2700k to 4.9ghz on air without having the temperature of the Sun in my case, thus resulting in better performance over the 3770k.

Because i saved 50 euros in graphics card budget
   
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  (#164)
Agent-A01
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Default 05-01-2012, 01:34 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
Amperage increases with voltage (unless you manage to decrease wattage at the same time). But, technically, you're right. Amperage does damage, not voltage....or course, if you look at it from the thermal point, increase in voltage = increase in temperature which can cause damage due to components expanding and contracting excessively (this is what causes light bulbs to "blow out")
whats with the 560Ti temporarily? 7870 die?
   
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  (#165)
maxio
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Default 05-01-2012, 18:53 | posts: 94

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackZero
Not sure if ivy-bridge can stay below 70c at a similar overclock even with high end water, though it may match the performance level at around 4.8Ghz the temps may still be a little higher so you might need to run the fans at a higher rpm, meaning similar overall performance/temps to sandy bridge but more noise
I agree, BUT not if you take into a consideration a video encoding.
x264 encoding on 3770@4.8 is MUCH faster than 2600K even heavly overclocked.
My buddy on 3770@4.52 has 53fps on second pass. That is something.

If I find a good clocking 3770@4.8 on WC I'm going to buy a new/another platform just for it, and ONLY because of x264. I don't need 3930k for my needs.

---

EDIT: I decided to go 3930K route

Last edited by maxio; 05-06-2012 at 03:38.
   
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  (#166)
BlackZero
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Default 05-01-2012, 20:05 | posts: 8,109 | Location: United Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxio View Post
I agree, BUT not if you take into a consideration a video encoding.
x264 encoding on 3770@4.8 is MUCH faster than 2600K even heavly overclocked.
My buddy on 3770@4.52 has 53fps on second pass. That is something.

If I find a good clocking 3770@4.8 on WC I'm going to buy a new/another platform just for it, and ONLY because of x264. I don't need 3930k for my needs.
Valid point if you do quite a lot of encoding, for a professional of course SB-e would be the only platform worth considering so I assume your needs are more to do with home use. I do a fair amount of video encoding, also for home use, which includes format changes for different devices, compression etc. I especially do a lot of HD transcoding for mobile devices and uploading to youtube. For my youtube channel I regularly find myself working with 25-50GB worth of video data that I then compress, with handbrake a lot of the time, to around 2-3GB before uploading to youtube. This process can take anything between 10 and 30 minutes per clip and for a home user I would imagine this is close to the amount of time they would be spending on video related work, maybe a little longer in some cases with much longer video for home devices etc.

The point though is that as a home user, at least for myself and likely the majority of people, the amount of time spent isn't actually that much and less than an hour in most instances. Using this time frame as a base, along with the information from the current review that shows the average difference to be about 10-15% with the i7 3770k as it is clocked 100Mhz higher than the i7 2600k, in most cases I am looking at saving a few minutes on the odd days when I actually do video work, which is still likely a little more video work than the average person is likely to do on a regular basis.

In my case, and likely the majority of users, based purely on noise and time saved on video work, it comes down to a relatively noisier system all the time or a few minutes saved video encoding on the odd day. I would have to say the advantages of ivy bridge video encoding in most cases would not warrant a change.

Though of course this is based on my personal video encoding needs and an assumption was made for other home users. In reality everyone will have their own individual patterns of use and for some the time saved will be much greater, in which case they would have to either put up with more noise or simply run at a lower overclock to maintain similar noise levels and slightly higher video encoding performance, but at the expense of relatively lower performance in everything else.

Last edited by BlackZero; 05-01-2012 at 20:10.
   
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  (#167)
isidore
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Default 05-01-2012, 20:39 | posts: 5,659 | Location: Timisoara, Romania

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Originally Posted by Sash View Post
Because i saved 50 euros in graphics card budget
don't tell me you are using the igp on the IB as primary gpu!!
   
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  (#168)
maxio
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Default 05-01-2012, 23:42 | posts: 94

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackZero View Post
Valid point if you do quite a lot of encoding, for a professional of course SB-e would be the only platform worth considering so I assume your needs are more to do with home use. I do a fair amount of video encoding, also for home use, which includes format changes for different devices, compression etc. I especially do a lot of HD transcoding for mobile devices and uploading to youtube. For my youtube channel I regularly find myself working with 25-50GB worth of video data that I then compress, with handbrake a lot of the time, to around 2-3GB before uploading to youtube. This process can take anything between 10 and 30 minutes per clip and for a home user I would imagine this is close to the amount of time they would be spending on video related work, maybe a little longer in some cases with much longer video for home devices etc.

The point though is that as a home user, at least for myself and likely the majority of people, the amount of time spent isn't actually that much and less than an hour in most instances. Using this time frame as a base, along with the information from the current review that shows the average difference to be about 10-15% with the i7 3770k as it is clocked 100Mhz higher than the i7 2600k, in most cases I am looking at saving a few minutes on the odd days when I actually do video work, which is still likely a little more video work than the average person is likely to do on a regular basis.

In my case, and likely the majority of users, based purely on noise and time saved on video work, it comes down to a relatively noisier system all the time or a few minutes saved video encoding on the odd day. I would have to say the advantages of ivy bridge video encoding in most cases would not warrant a change.

Though of course this is based on my personal video encoding needs and an assumption was made for other home users. In reality everyone will have their own individual patterns of use and for some the time saved will be much greater, in which case they would have to either put up with more noise or simply run at a lower overclock to maintain similar noise levels and slightly higher video encoding performance, but at the expense of relatively lower performance in everything else.
Very nicely said.
Only one thing I would like to mention regarding rendering speed at the cost of noise.

It's not THAT bad, realy.

Using H100 with push-pull (4fans) configuration with a fairly decent fans like noctua's one at 4.8 Ghz we could observe a temperature after 30mins of linpack like 72-76C average. The hottest core hits 82C.

OK, thats a bit high temperature, but keep in mind it's a linpack + fans were not too loud, definately.
I would say, not a big deal at all for 24/7.

Plus, I saw that at 4.8GHz rendering hits the 3930k+ level speed mark which is VERY nice.
The bottom line is simple, If you plan to run 3770k that high you realy need a WC.

Also, from our observation, anything higher than 1.35v and the chip cannot be easly cooled, in fact I dare to say it's almost impossible using ANY normal cooling include WC.

Well, If you got 2600k/2700k it's a simple answer. KEEP IT unless you have nothing to do better with your cash.

If you build a new platform, I think it would be stupid to not jump on the Ivy Bridge bandwagon.
Or if you realy need something more decent to rendering your videos, but if you got a cash, buy a 3930k.

But that's another story ;-)

----

Heh, I see 3930K for 500$? http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0376493
Not a bad deal.

Last edited by maxio; 05-02-2012 at 00:08.
   
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  (#169)
BlackZero
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Default 05-02-2012, 02:10 | posts: 8,109 | Location: United Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxio View Post
Very nicely said.
Only one thing I would like to mention regarding rendering speed at the cost of noise.

It's not THAT bad, realy.

Using H100 with push-pull (4fans) configuration with a fairly decent fans like noctua's one at 4.8 Ghz we could observe a temperature after 30mins of linpack like 72-76C average. The hottest core hits 82C.

OK, thats a bit high temperature, but keep in mind it's a linpack + fans were not too loud, definately.
I would say, not a big deal at all for 24/7.

Plus, I saw that at 4.8GHz rendering hits the 3930k+ level speed mark which is VERY nice.
The bottom line is simple, If you plan to run 3770k that high you realy need a WC.

Also, from our observation, anything higher than 1.35v and the chip cannot be easly cooled, in fact I dare to say it's almost impossible using ANY normal cooling include WC.

Well, If you got 2600k/2700k it's a simple answer. KEEP IT unless you have nothing to do better with your cash.

If you build a new platform, I think it would be stupid to not jump on the Ivy Bridge bandwagon.
Or if you realy need something more decent to rendering your videos, but if you got a cash, buy a 3930k.

But that's another story ;-)

----

Heh, I see 3930K for 500$? http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0376493
Not a bad deal.
Well the i7 3770k is a great processor but currently I can run my system at 5GHz with around 1.5v and never see temps go above about 70c in any of the things I usually do, this is with all fans set to silent. For an i7 3770k to match that in all the things I normally do it would need to be running at 4.8GHz, but with all my fans set to silent I am not sure it would be able to maintain temps at 70c or below.

The problem here is that with relatively high voltage levels I would not feel comfortable with temps going over 70c. This would mean having to increase fan speeds every time I did something demanding on the processor like video encoding or if I played a heavily multi-threaded game.

The point is that I have specifically set up my system with the highest performing radiators at the lowest rpm, and keeping noise to a minimum was the main reason for doing so. I am sure many other people using water cooling have done so for the very same reason. Having to increase fan speed every time I did any of the things mentioned would not only mean having to put up with higher noise levels but it would also mean having to reach down to my fan controller and manually change the 6 channels.

Considering the above I am not sure Ivy bridge is at all worth it for many people wanting to run silent water cooled systems, yes you do get some power saving and usually I'd be all for it but not at the expense of noise and constant inconvenience. So I can see why some reviewers have even suggested looking out for sandy bridge chips that are known to be good overclockers rather than buying Ivy bridge. I personally have not so far seen any reason to disagree.

Sure if you are an overclocker and will be using extreme cooling then you might have a lot of fun with ivy bridge and even those wanting a better on-die GPU might be better off with ivy bridge but for general usage with a silent water cooling system and discrete graphics card a sandy bridge processor might be the better option.

Last edited by BlackZero; 05-02-2012 at 02:50.
   
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Sash
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Default 05-02-2012, 06:39 | posts: 7,004

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Originally Posted by isidore View Post
don't tell me you are using the igp on the IB as primary gpu!!


you may laugh but HON runs smooth at max settings, even Alan Wake is playable on low settings. i was skeptical like you about the intel hd 4000, but once you get to use it, it is trully amazing what intel did: they put a piece of gpu from a geforce 530/radeon hd 7300 inside the silicon of a CPU, that is what 22 nm can do...
anyway, i wanted to get a gtx 570 but i can't resist to go for kepler instead of old and power hungry fermi, so i wait for gtx 670

Last edited by Sash; 05-02-2012 at 06:41.
   
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  (#171)
IPlayNaked
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Default 05-02-2012, 13:06 | posts: 6,559

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sash View Post


you may laugh but HON runs smooth at max settings, even Alan Wake is playable on low settings. i was skeptical like you about the intel hd 4000, but once you get to use it, it is trully amazing what intel did: they put a piece of gpu from a geforce 530/radeon hd 7300 inside the silicon of a CPU, that is what 22 nm can do...
anyway, i wanted to get a gtx 570 but i can't resist to go for kepler instead of old and power hungry fermi, so i wait for gtx 670
How is that amazing when AMD's APU's based on Athlon IIs blow it out of the water?
   
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Sash
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Default 05-02-2012, 14:37 | posts: 7,004

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPlayNaked View Post
How is that amazing when AMD's APU's based on Athlon IIs blow it out of the water?
I dont argue about the GPU computing part, but the CPU computing part is deplorable. My dad has an AMD powered Asus, with integrated APU based on "Zacate" (40 nm) and sorry but my HP laptop powered by core i3 "Arrandale" blows it away compared to CPU peformance, but true, the IGP on it (intel hd 2000 i think) sucks ass!
AMD focuses more on IGP performance than on CPU, and they should have a good reason, all that experience from ATI made them better than intel in this area.
   
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  (#173)
sdamaged99
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Default 05-02-2012, 14:56 | posts: 1,945 | Location: Isle of Man

Got my 3770K at 4.5 Ghz, 1.24vcore and hitting 84 degrees with Prime95

Custom watercooled too, this is a hot chip that's probably going to get returned.

if i up vcore much more, i hit 100 degrees c
   
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  (#174)
maxio
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Default 05-02-2012, 15:06 | posts: 94

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdamaged99 View Post
Got my 3770K at 4.5 Ghz, 1.24vcore and hitting 84 degrees with Prime95

Custom watercooled too, this is a hot chip that's probably going to get returned.

if i up vcore much more, i hit 100 degrees c
1.24v 4.5 Ghz and 84c?
That sucks to be honest.

4.8 H100. 85C max. 1.35v - linpack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9685x0ORYjI&t=8m21s

Last edited by maxio; 05-02-2012 at 15:09.
   
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  (#175)
Agent-A01
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Default 05-02-2012, 18:52 | posts: 6,536 | Location: USA

No way you have a good watercooler then, or maybe its not mounted correctly
   
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